Stainless steel pins dry?

stubbicatt · December 27, 2014, 02:23 PM

Anybody ever tried to tumble brass with stainless pins while dry? Been contemplating changing over but not so enthused with water in my cases, drying them etc.

Thought I'd ask.

9MMand223only · December 27, 2014, 02:54 PM

Yeah, I tried it, it doesn't work.

You need some sort of de-greaser/soap in there for it to be effective.

After you tumble in wet, an easy an effective drying method is to place in a bucket, then let a blow dryer on high blow from edge of bucket for 5 minutes.

works like a charm

**Unclenick** · December 27, 2014, 03:00 PM

The presence of water and surfactants acts as a cutting lube does when drilling or as a honing oil does when sharpening. Without it the carbon is harder to break loose. Without it bullet lube and the soluble waste products of powder combustion don't dissolve. Without it loosened particles are not suspended away from the surface of the brass, so they end up falling together with the pins and cushioning their impact with the brass. You wind up scuffing the surface of the fouling more than cleaning.

Nick_C_S · December 27, 2014, 05:37 PM

Great post as always Unclenick. I knew it doesn't work. Now I know why.

Drying has never been an issue for me, in my dry climate. I just spread them out on an old towel for a couple days, and then they're bone dry.

(This thread is starting to look familiar lol. I think there's another going right now that's very similar.)

Clark · December 27, 2014, 07:37 PM

high speed Thumbler Model B.
5 pounds of stainless steel media [ round rods .041" dia, .255" long]
Add 200 pieces of rifle brass
Fill to the top with hot water
Agitate by hand to get bubbles out
Fill to the top with hot water
Add 1 tablespoon of Dawn liquid dishwashing detergent
Add 1 teaspoon of Lemon Shine powder
Tumble for 3 hours with the machine resting on 4" of foam rubber to keep noise down.
Drain the dirty water
Add clean water
Agitate by hand
Drain the semi dirty water
Dump contents into a large open container
Shake the water and media out of each case
Put the brass one deep on paper towels and allow to dry overnight.
Check that a meniscus of water does not exist on the flash hole.

Gster · December 27, 2014, 09:12 PM

The longest I've tumbled brass in pins with water,citric acid and Dawn dishsoap is 1 1/2 hrs. and they look brand new. I can't imagine getting them any cleaner. Then 45 mins. in the dehydrator and they are ready to size.

zplinker · December 28, 2014, 01:32 PM

The .041" pins do fine, but if you buy the .047" pins you won't find any flash holes with 2 pins stuck in them. By far the best cleaning system I've come across, and drying is a very minor problem.

hartcreek · December 29, 2014, 04:17 AM

I used to deprime my brass and then wet tumble using laundry soap in a thumbler rotary tumbler. Didnt use no stainless steel pins and it worked just fine.

I would rinse the brass in the thumble drums and once rinsed dump them out on a cookie sheet in the oven at 220 till the brass was dry.

stubbicatt · December 30, 2014, 09:10 AM

Thanks guys. More grist for the mill so to speak.

jmorris · December 30, 2014, 10:52 AM

I built a tumbler put of an old gear motor and a 100lb chlorine bucket, actually two. One connected to the motor and another that slides inside it that holds the brass.

15 lb media
3 gallons of water
4 T dawn soap
1t lemishine
3000 or so cases
1 hr tumbling

2.5 beers in the Texas sun and they are not only dry but too hot to hold.

Smoke & Recoil · December 31, 2014, 07:10 PM

Has anyone used these stainless pins with cases that
were fired using black powder ? (results)

straight-shooter · December 31, 2014, 07:38 PM

I put the brass in a mesh laundry bag and hang it over the door in the dryer and close the door on it and run on medium heat for 40 minutes. Dry as a bone and ready to process.

Clark · January 1, 2015, 12:34 AM

jmorris,
I have a Dust Deputy front end on my shop vac.
It is great to see the world has found uses for one 5 gal bucket getting stuck inside another

zplinker · January 1, 2015, 09:53 AM

Stainless steel pins clean up black powder cartridges like magic.

mr.snakeman · January 4, 2015, 02:34 PM

Has anyone tried stainless media in a regular Lyman-type tumbler instead of corn cobs or walnut shells or would the extra weight of the metal media and liquids overload the motor to the degree of nonfunctioning? Any thoughts?

**Unclenick** · January 5, 2015, 12:22 PM

mr.snakeman,

The pins only work well with liquid solutions, as mentioned earlier in the thread, and vibratory cleaners sold for handloading are not rated for liquid media. They're not powerful enough for the weight. There are industrial vibratory cleaners and polisher for which it may work, like a Vibradyne, but you are looking at a much more expensive machine, then. The rotary tumblers rated for liquid media are more economical.

Smoke & Recoil · January 5, 2015, 04:40 PM

Okay folks, I just received my stainless steel pins from Guntap out of
Texas. These people ship fast, I ordered January 1st and received them
here in Michigan already.

chiefr · January 5, 2015, 11:27 PM

I shoot a number of different BP carts and can tell you SS pins are like a miracle. Brass as new as if it came from a factory box.
Tumbling never came close.
Every time I go to a BP shoot or take to the range, I bring a plastic milk jug 1/2 filled with water and a teaspoon of Dawn and let them presoak first.

mr.snakeman · January 6, 2015, 01:50 AM

Unclenick: thanks for your reply, pretty much what I thought as well, just nice to get conformation.

Magnum Wheel Man · January 6, 2015, 10:01 AM

one comment about wet tumbling black powder cases... I've found that one "normal" tumbling gets me clean cases but not a nice yellow gold color... more a dull "coppery" color... with a full water change & rinse & fresh chemicals, I can usually get nice yellow brass again with a 2nd tumbling...

I've also noticed that time is relative to the machine ( likely the RPM, & distance between the flat sides, or how efficient the agitation is ) I'm currently using an old worn out RCBS Sidewinder, & while it works OK for the stainless pins, & I've wet tumbled 10's of thousands of cases, in the last couple years, & after I got the machine 10-15 years old from my FIL... I often don't get completely clean primer pockets without running between 10-12 hours... & there are many members that say what they are using gets everything clean & shiny in 1.5 hours... I have no reason to doubt that they know what clean is... so the OP is likely best off buying a tumber specifically built for wet tumbling...

I've seen several built from old commercial printers & such that seem to work well...

but if I were buying one ( & I'll be replacing the old Sidewinder in the next couple months ) it'll likely be either the Thumler or the new Frankford Arsenal...

BTW... I've mentioned the pins before, & that is great advice on checking the pin diameter... & also buy magnetic stainless... I got my pins off E-Bay a couple years ago, my pins are not magnetic ( so spilled or the occasional dropped pin is difficult to pick up ) mine are also the smaller diameter, & I often get 2 pins stuck in a flash hole... in fact WW case of the smaller pistol variety often get as many as 30-40% of the cases with 2 pins stuck...

so doing your research & buying the right stuff the 1st time, can save a lot of headaches

zplinker · January 6, 2015, 10:55 AM

I got my ss .047" pins from Pellets, LLC. First time, I got the .041", and struggled with them for a few years. When I ordered the .047" pins, they would no longer take a 5# order, said 'it had gotten too crazy', so I checked with a few friends, and ordered 30#. And yes, be sure to get magnetic! Like loading shotshells, sooner than later, some pellets or pins are going to be on the floor.

How clean is clean? It is mostly a function of how many and how dirty the brass is to start with. Pistol brass, run for 4 hours, should come out cleaner and shinier than new. Only time I ever had a problem was when I didn't have enough Dawn soap in the mix. Those came out with a dull look, like the soap didn't suspend the crud. Just don't overload the rig and it will do wonders.

RCBS Sidewinders? I've worn out 4 of them, and wish I'd have gotten on board the Thumblers tumblers many dollars ago!

Smoke & Recoil · January 6, 2015, 04:39 PM

This tumbler looks interesting... (opinions ?)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-gallon-Bra...item3cea50fbcf

December 27, 2014, 02:23 PM	#1
stubbicatt Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2007 Posts: 1,707	Stainless steel pins dry? Anybody ever tried to tumble brass with stainless pins while dry? Been contemplating changing over but not so enthused with water in my cases, drying them etc. Thought I'd ask.

December 27, 2014, 03:00 PM	#3
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	The presence of water and surfactants acts as a cutting lube does when drilling or as a honing oil does when sharpening. Without it the carbon is harder to break loose. Without it bullet lube and the soluble waste products of powder combustion don't dissolve. Without it loosened particles are not suspended away from the surface of the brass, so they end up falling together with the pins and cushioning their impact with the brass. You wind up scuffing the surface of the fouling more than cleaning. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

December 27, 2014, 05:37 PM	#4
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,523	Great post as always Unclenick. I knew it doesn't work. Now I know why. Drying has never been an issue for me, in my dry climate. I just spread them out on an old towel for a couple days, and then they're bone dry. (This thread is starting to look familiar lol. I think there's another going right now that's very similar.) __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

December 27, 2014, 07:37 PM	#5
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	high speed Thumbler Model B. 5 pounds of stainless steel media [ round rods .041" dia, .255" long] Add 200 pieces of rifle brass Fill to the top with hot water Agitate by hand to get bubbles out Fill to the top with hot water Add 1 tablespoon of Dawn liquid dishwashing detergent Add 1 teaspoon of Lemon Shine powder Tumble for 3 hours with the machine resting on 4" of foam rubber to keep noise down. Drain the dirty water Add clean water Agitate by hand Drain the semi dirty water Dump contents into a large open container Shake the water and media out of each case Put the brass one deep on paper towels and allow to dry overnight. Check that a meniscus of water does not exist on the flash hole. __________________ The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books." "Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist. Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?

December 27, 2014, 09:12 PM	#6
Gster Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2012 Location: N.central Pa. Posts: 302	The longest I've tumbled brass in pins with water,citric acid and Dawn dishsoap is 1 1/2 hrs. and they look brand new. I can't imagine getting them any cleaner. Then 45 mins. in the dehydrator and they are ready to size. __________________ Gun control means: Being able to hit what you are shooting at.

December 27, 2014, 02:54 PM	#2
9MMand223only Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2014 Posts: 283	Yeah, I tried it, it doesn't work. You need some sort of de-greaser/soap in there for it to be effective. After you tumble in wet, an easy an effective drying method is to place in a bucket, then let a blow dryer on high blow from edge of bucket for 5 minutes. works like a charm

December 28, 2014, 01:32 PM	#7
zplinker Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2011 Location: way out here Posts: 262	The .041" pins do fine, but if you buy the .047" pins you won't find any flash holes with 2 pins stuck in them. By far the best cleaning system I've come across, and drying is a very minor problem.

December 29, 2014, 04:17 AM	#8
hartcreek Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2014 Location: Washington Posts: 1,549	I used to deprime my brass and then wet tumble using laundry soap in a thumbler rotary tumbler. Didnt use no stainless steel pins and it worked just fine. I would rinse the brass in the thumble drums and once rinsed dump them out on a cookie sheet in the oven at 220 till the brass was dry.

December 30, 2014, 09:10 AM	#9
stubbicatt Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2007 Posts: 1,707	Thanks guys. More grist for the mill so to speak.

December 30, 2014, 10:52 AM	#10
jmorris Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2006 Posts: 3,077	I built a tumbler put of an old gear motor and a 100lb chlorine bucket, actually two. One connected to the motor and another that slides inside it that holds the brass. 15 lb media 3 gallons of water 4 T dawn soap 1t lemishine 3000 or so cases 1 hr tumbling 2.5 beers in the Texas sun and they are not only dry but too hot to hold.

December 31, 2014, 07:10 PM	#11
Smoke & Recoil Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: East shore of Lake Michigan. Posts: 714	SOBER-UP ! Has anyone used these stainless pins with cases that were fired using black powder ? (results)

December 31, 2014, 07:38 PM	#12
straight-shooter Senior Member Join Date: June 12, 2007 Location: North Central Indiana Posts: 436	I put the brass in a mesh laundry bag and hang it over the door in the dryer and close the door on it and run on medium heat for 40 minutes. Dry as a bone and ready to process.

January 1, 2015, 12:34 AM	#13
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	jmorris, I have a Dust Deputy front end on my shop vac. It is great to see the world has found uses for one 5 gal bucket getting stuck inside another __________________ The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books." "Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist. Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?

January 1, 2015, 09:53 AM	#14
zplinker Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2011 Location: way out here Posts: 262	Stainless steel pins clean up black powder cartridges like magic.

January 4, 2015, 02:34 PM	#15
mr.snakeman Member Join Date: January 15, 2006 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 20	Has anyone tried stainless media in a regular Lyman-type tumbler instead of corn cobs or walnut shells or would the extra weight of the metal media and liquids overload the motor to the degree of nonfunctioning? Any thoughts?

January 5, 2015, 12:22 PM	#16
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	mr.snakeman, The pins only work well with liquid solutions, as mentioned earlier in the thread, and vibratory cleaners sold for handloading are not rated for liquid media. They're not powerful enough for the weight. There are industrial vibratory cleaners and polisher for which it may work, like a Vibradyne, but you are looking at a much more expensive machine, then. The rotary tumblers rated for liquid media are more economical. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

January 5, 2015, 04:40 PM	#17
Smoke & Recoil Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: East shore of Lake Michigan. Posts: 714	Okay folks, I just received my stainless steel pins from Guntap out of Texas. These people ship fast, I ordered January 1st and received them here in Michigan already. Last edited by Smoke & Recoil; January 5, 2015 at 06:48 PM.

January 5, 2015, 11:27 PM	#18
chiefr Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: AR Posts: 1,401	I shoot a number of different BP carts and can tell you SS pins are like a miracle. Brass as new as if it came from a factory box. Tumbling never came close. Every time I go to a BP shoot or take to the range, I bring a plastic milk jug 1/2 filled with water and a teaspoon of Dawn and let them presoak first.

January 6, 2015, 01:50 AM	#19
mr.snakeman Member Join Date: January 15, 2006 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 20	Unclenick: thanks for your reply, pretty much what I thought as well, just nice to get conformation.

January 6, 2015, 10:01 AM	#20
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	one comment about wet tumbling black powder cases... I've found that one "normal" tumbling gets me clean cases but not a nice yellow gold color... more a dull "coppery" color... with a full water change & rinse & fresh chemicals, I can usually get nice yellow brass again with a 2nd tumbling... I've also noticed that time is relative to the machine ( likely the RPM, & distance between the flat sides, or how efficient the agitation is ) I'm currently using an old worn out RCBS Sidewinder, & while it works OK for the stainless pins, & I've wet tumbled 10's of thousands of cases, in the last couple years, & after I got the machine 10-15 years old from my FIL... I often don't get completely clean primer pockets without running between 10-12 hours... & there are many members that say what they are using gets everything clean & shiny in 1.5 hours... I have no reason to doubt that they know what clean is... so the OP is likely best off buying a tumber specifically built for wet tumbling... I've seen several built from old commercial printers & such that seem to work well... but if I were buying one ( & I'll be replacing the old Sidewinder in the next couple months ) it'll likely be either the Thumler or the new Frankford Arsenal... BTW... I've mentioned the pins before, & that is great advice on checking the pin diameter... & also buy magnetic stainless... I got my pins off E-Bay a couple years ago, my pins are not magnetic ( so spilled or the occasional dropped pin is difficult to pick up ) mine are also the smaller diameter, & I often get 2 pins stuck in a flash hole... in fact WW case of the smaller pistol variety often get as many as 30-40% of the cases with 2 pins stuck... so doing your research & buying the right stuff the 1st time, can save a lot of headaches __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

January 6, 2015, 10:55 AM	#21
zplinker Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2011 Location: way out here Posts: 262	I got my ss .047" pins from Pellets, LLC. First time, I got the .041", and struggled with them for a few years. When I ordered the .047" pins, they would no longer take a 5# order, said 'it had gotten too crazy', so I checked with a few friends, and ordered 30#. And yes, be sure to get magnetic! Like loading shotshells, sooner than later, some pellets or pins are going to be on the floor. How clean is clean? It is mostly a function of how many and how dirty the brass is to start with. Pistol brass, run for 4 hours, should come out cleaner and shinier than new. Only time I ever had a problem was when I didn't have enough Dawn soap in the mix. Those came out with a dull look, like the soap didn't suspend the crud. Just don't overload the rig and it will do wonders. RCBS Sidewinders? I've worn out 4 of them, and wish I'd have gotten on board the Thumblers tumblers many dollars ago!

January 6, 2015, 04:39 PM	#22
Smoke & Recoil Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: East shore of Lake Michigan. Posts: 714	This tumbler looks interesting... (opinions ?) http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-gallon-Bra...item3cea50fbcf