Lever action brass not sealing

davery25 · March 26, 2013, 06:11 PM

Hi,

I have a Browning B92 lever action in .357 mag. I was firing it for the first time on Sunday and noticed that when i ran 38 specials through it, there was charring and soot on the outside of the 38 special cases running to about half-way down the case. Is this normal? 357 mags seal fine. Image attached for reference.

Jerry45 · March 26, 2013, 07:16 PM

Different rounds different powder. Different brand different powder. One is jacketed the other is lead(?). I don't see a problem.

davery25 · March 26, 2013, 08:09 PM

That's the premise I went off when I continued to fire 150 of them that day

. Just figured I'd check though. I know highlands (Prvi to you guys elsewhere in the world) usually burn dirty but it was the leakage that concerned me a little. It's not a burn, it's just soot and i can rub it off with my finger so that's why I wasn't too concerned.

Also come to think of it, it may just have been the soot from alternating between the 357 mags and 38s.

davery25 · March 26, 2013, 08:10 PM

Weirdly thought - it was only ever on one side which you can see in the photo. More responses would be welcome.

Mike38 · March 26, 2013, 08:30 PM

Powder burns on only one side is some what common in pistols, and I would imagine the same in a handgun caliber lever action. What happens is the extractor pushes the cartridge to one side of the chamber, leaving a slight gap along the same side as the extractor. To check this, mark a round with a Sharpie marker, and load the round so the mark is straight up. Fire then eject. Now hold the spent case so the Sharpie mark is straight up. You will see that the heaviest powder burn marks on the side line up with the extractor on the bolt. This powder burn on one side shows up more on low pressure rounds than it does on higher pressure rounds, the brass case doesn’t expand as much on the low pressure stuff. No problem at all.

**44 AMP** · March 26, 2013, 08:41 PM

It is a common occurance, especially with handgun rounds. Only being on one side is normal, as well.

The exact powder used, load level, the "springyness" of the brass, these things all have an effect.

Smoke stained cases on a bottleneck rifle case (below the neck) usually means the load is not fully sealing the case in the chamber. However, smoked case necks are often seen, with loads that are enough to fully seal the brass.

This is because of the design of the chamber. The clearance of the neck area is a little larger than the body, to allow for the brass to expand and release the bullet. The shoulder/body of a case can be sealed before the neck does, and as soon as the bullet is out of the case, so is the gas.

This also happens with straight cases, the effect is less obvious, usually.

Another thing to consider, some loads are just "dirty". Certain powders, and lead bullets leave a nice smokey residue behind. As soon as the pressure drops enough for the brass to spring back from the chamber walls, it can be sooted. Ever notice smoke come out of the action with the fired case?

Soot Stained brass can be from a load that fails to fully obdurate (seal the case to the chamber) but it can also come from dirty burning powder, cast bullet lube smoke, etc.

Ferretboy · March 27, 2013, 01:23 PM

I have a Winchester 94 in .357, I run both .357 and .38s through it and I havnt had a similar issue come up, all the brass comes out fairly clean. Fun as hell to shoot a .357 carbine isnt it?

davery25 · March 27, 2013, 05:24 PM

I'm just going to roll with it i think. It's the most fun gun I have i think and the only one to date to give me a bruise from firing it, despite being the smallest cartridge i have (ignoring the .22LR). I'm glad I didn't go with the 44 mag

Ferretboy · March 27, 2013, 06:26 PM

Thats odd, mine doesnt give me a bruise.

Ozzieman · March 27, 2013, 06:43 PM

I have the exact same soot on my 9mm cases in my carbines. Normally it’s when I use light loads and the case isn’t sealing.
Little more cleaning but nothing to worry about.

hodaka · March 27, 2013, 08:36 PM

.38's out of my Marlin often look just like that. So do the .45's out of my Taurus Lightning copy but even more black.

Boomer58cal · March 27, 2013, 10:32 PM

I haven't seen this with my 94(saddle ring).44 mag shooting .44 specials or mags, but my hand loads are on the hot side.

davery25 · March 28, 2013, 08:52 PM

Sweet, I'll just keep shooting then. Gave me a bruise because of the curved buttstock I think. I'm also glad to hear for all my American friends that you didn't get your "assault rifles" taken away.

Peace

Jerry45 · March 29, 2013, 07:01 PM

I don't have any "assault rifles". Even the black scary ones have been very good. They just lay there when I'm not holding them and they haven't assaulted anyone. Thanks for caring.

March 26, 2013, 06:11 PM	#1
davery25 Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 2011 Location: Australia Posts: 318	Lever action brass not sealing Hi, I have a Browning B92 lever action in .357 mag. I was firing it for the first time on Sunday and noticed that when i ran 38 specials through it, there was charring and soot on the outside of the 38 special cases running to about half-way down the case. Is this normal? 357 mags seal fine. Image attached for reference.

March 26, 2013, 07:16 PM	#2
Jerry45 Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2000 Location: Metairie, Louisiana Posts: 890	Different rounds different powder. Different brand different powder. One is jacketed the other is lead(?). I don't see a problem. __________________ Guns are not dangerous! People are! RKBA!

March 26, 2013, 08:09 PM	#3
davery25 Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 2011 Location: Australia Posts: 318	That's the premise I went off when I continued to fire 150 of them that day. Just figured I'd check though. I know highlands (Prvi to you guys elsewhere in the world) usually burn dirty but it was the leakage that concerned me a little. It's not a burn, it's just soot and i can rub it off with my finger so that's why I wasn't too concerned. Also come to think of it, it may just have been the soot from alternating between the 357 mags and 38s.

March 26, 2013, 08:41 PM	#6
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,818	It is a common occurance, especially with handgun rounds. Only being on one side is normal, as well. The exact powder used, load level, the "springyness" of the brass, these things all have an effect. Smoke stained cases on a bottleneck rifle case (below the neck) usually means the load is not fully sealing the case in the chamber. However, smoked case necks are often seen, with loads that are enough to fully seal the brass. This is because of the design of the chamber. The clearance of the neck area is a little larger than the body, to allow for the brass to expand and release the bullet. The shoulder/body of a case can be sealed before the neck does, and as soon as the bullet is out of the case, so is the gas. This also happens with straight cases, the effect is less obvious, usually. Another thing to consider, some loads are just "dirty". Certain powders, and lead bullets leave a nice smokey residue behind. As soon as the pressure drops enough for the brass to spring back from the chamber walls, it can be sooted. Ever notice smoke come out of the action with the fired case? Soot Stained brass can be from a load that fails to fully obdurate (seal the case to the chamber) but it can also come from dirty burning powder, cast bullet lube smoke, etc. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

March 27, 2013, 01:23 PM	#7
Ferretboy Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2012 Location: Longview, WA Posts: 214	I have a Winchester 94 in .357, I run both .357 and .38s through it and I havnt had a similar issue come up, all the brass comes out fairly clean. Fun as hell to shoot a .357 carbine isnt it? __________________ There is no such thing as Overkill, Dead is Dead!

March 26, 2013, 08:10 PM	#4
davery25 Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 2011 Location: Australia Posts: 318	Weirdly thought - it was only ever on one side which you can see in the photo. More responses would be welcome.

March 26, 2013, 08:30 PM	#5
Mike38 Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2009 Location: North Central Illinois Posts: 2,710	Powder burns on only one side is some what common in pistols, and I would imagine the same in a handgun caliber lever action. What happens is the extractor pushes the cartridge to one side of the chamber, leaving a slight gap along the same side as the extractor. To check this, mark a round with a Sharpie marker, and load the round so the mark is straight up. Fire then eject. Now hold the spent case so the Sharpie mark is straight up. You will see that the heaviest powder burn marks on the side line up with the extractor on the bolt. This powder burn on one side shows up more on low pressure rounds than it does on higher pressure rounds, the brass case doesn’t expand as much on the low pressure stuff. No problem at all.

March 27, 2013, 05:24 PM	#8
davery25 Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 2011 Location: Australia Posts: 318	I'm just going to roll with it i think. It's the most fun gun I have i think and the only one to date to give me a bruise from firing it, despite being the smallest cartridge i have (ignoring the .22LR). I'm glad I didn't go with the 44 mag

March 27, 2013, 06:26 PM	#9
Ferretboy Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2012 Location: Longview, WA Posts: 214	Thats odd, mine doesnt give me a bruise. __________________ There is no such thing as Overkill, Dead is Dead!

March 27, 2013, 06:43 PM	#10
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	I have the exact same soot on my 9mm cases in my carbines. Normally it’s when I use light loads and the case isn’t sealing. Little more cleaning but nothing to worry about. __________________ It was a sad day when I discovered my universal remote control did not in fact control the universe. Did you hear about the latest study.....5 out of 6 liberals say that Russian Roulette is safe.

March 27, 2013, 08:36 PM	#11
hodaka Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,010	.38's out of my Marlin often look just like that. So do the .45's out of my Taurus Lightning copy but even more black.

March 27, 2013, 10:32 PM	#12
Boomer58cal Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2013 Location: closer than you think Posts: 967	I haven't seen this with my 94(saddle ring).44 mag shooting .44 specials or mags, but my hand loads are on the hot side. __________________ The number one cause of death in the 20th century. 290,000,000 citizens were first disarmed and then murdered by their own governments. This number does not include those killed in war. We're from the government, we're here to help

March 28, 2013, 08:52 PM	#13
davery25 Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 2011 Location: Australia Posts: 318	Sweet, I'll just keep shooting then. Gave me a bruise because of the curved buttstock I think. I'm also glad to hear for all my American friends that you didn't get your "assault rifles" taken away. Peace

March 29, 2013, 07:01 PM	#14
Jerry45 Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2000 Location: Metairie, Louisiana Posts: 890	I don't have any "assault rifles". Even the black scary ones have been very good. They just lay there when I'm not holding them and they haven't assaulted anyone. Thanks for caring. __________________ Guns are not dangerous! People are! RKBA!