An unknown gun?Pls check it.

pksu · August 5, 2009, 01:04 AM

Hi Experts
I am from China.WW1 and WW2 were happend in our land.This gun was left by my grandfather.He was also know few of gun. Now I am owning this gun,I want to know further about it.Counld you tell me anything that you know or give me some key information.

Look forward to your reply.
Many Thanks!

the link of the gun pictures: http://tinypic.com/useralbum.php?ua=...7TbGWmhw%3D%3D

B. Lahey · August 5, 2009, 01:29 AM

Wow, that is very strange. I have never seen a bolt-action double-barreled shotgun before (although the bolts seem to act as breechplugs more than bolts). Can you post a photo of the bolts out of the gun?

I can't get the bigger photos to load, so it's tough to say for sure, but it looks like it has a mixture of Russian and English writing on it, maybe other languages as well.

Very very odd.

Looks like it could be homemade.

Thanks for sharing, it is a very unique item. Hopefully somebody here knows more about it than I do.

Smokin_Gun · August 5, 2009, 02:21 AM

Cool Shotgun , I like rare breeds...

pksu · August 8, 2009, 12:44 AM

Some one says it's a punt gun.Do you agree with it.

B. Lahey · August 8, 2009, 12:54 AM

No, punt guns are enormous shotguns used for commercial hunting. They tend to be the size of small cannons, and are usually mounted on boats.

That one is a much smaller shotgun of the traditional shoulder-fired type.

Do you know what gauge it is? If you could measure the bore somebody could probably tell you what shells it takes (you may not want to fire it, but knowing more is always good).

13 seconds into this video, you will see a punt gun:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7FeeamC4qk

pksu · August 8, 2009, 01:03 AM

length 172CM Weight 16KG
How to measure the gauge?The gauge of this gun is much bigger than my finger.

B. Lahey · August 8, 2009, 01:14 AM

Wait... 16 kilos?!?!

That's pretty hefty, and much larger than I could tell from the photos.

It may not quite be a punt gun by the traditional definition. I don't really know the line where "huge shotgun" turns into "punt gun", but I can understand why someone would call it that.

Which finger are you talking about? If it is much bigger than your thumb, it takes some very big shells. I'm guessing 8 gauge or larger, but you would have to measure.

Just measure from one inside edge to the other inside edge of the barrel. Milimeters or CM would work as you seem to be on the metric side of things, but inches would work too.

arcticap · August 8, 2009, 01:20 AM

172 CM is about 5 feet 8 inches long.

That sounds like it will have a big bore.
Maybe that's big enough to shoot an elephant?
The gauge stands for how many balls of bore size can be cast from 1 pound of lead. A 4 bore would make 4 bore size balls from 1 pound of lead.

Now days there are standard measurements for gauge based on this old English system.

B. Lahey · August 8, 2009, 01:28 AM

I finally got your bigger photos to load and this one is interesting. It appears to be ammunition instructions, but I have no idea what this "K" measurement is. Whatever it is, I think it takes a 50 k-weight solid shot, 5 Ks of blackpowder, or 3 Ks of "non-r powder" which may be some kind of early smokeless powder.

Did your grandfather ever hunt tigers? Or elephant?

NO TWIN FIRE! (don't fire both barrels at the same time). Very sound advice.

pksu · August 8, 2009, 01:40 AM

one inside edge to the other inside edge is about 7CM.
I want to say its's behind the butt of a secret hiding places. spin two screws to open it, put a little blackpowder inside with Oilpaper .

B. Lahey · August 8, 2009, 01:53 AM

Wow! That is HUGE!

From what I have found searching around the internet, that's somewhere between a "half bore" and "AA bore" gun, which is bigger than anything I have ever heard of being shoulder-fired.

Is there rifling (spiral grooves) in the barrels?

The bolts look kind of like they are from Arisaka rifles (Japanese, world war two).

Dingoboyx · August 8, 2009, 03:10 AM

I'd be stopping real quick and puttin' my hands up as far as I could get 'em

A friend of mine (a local gun dealer) has a blown up old black & white photo, framed on his wall, of his mate firing a 4 ball off his shoulder

The guy is on one foot, (front foot off the ground) the gun is aiming up in the air (vertical) with the muzzle flash visible

Evidently the guy broke his nose and dislocated his thumb as he fell flat on his back

The gun in the pictures here, looks like it might have been something the Chinese from long ago, made for their own use, maybe hunting, but possibly military/navy? Can you post a picture with something to give us an idea of its dimentions? Like a breifcase (or a tape measure?)

Interesting, to say the least

Dingoboyx · August 8, 2009, 03:19 AM

That 12 and the circles on the bottom plate make me think it is a 12ga I think our mate measured between the barrels (inside of on to inside of other and got confused between 7 centimeters & 7 millimeters? Looking at the size of the triggers and the size of the barrels, it does look alot like a 12 ga? The bore size is definately not 7 centimeters/ 2 1/2"?

measure again the size of the hole the bullet goes in at the end of one of the barrels? Is it about 17mm?

Can you take it to a gunshop? or do you have to hide the fact you own the gun now? Maybe a gun shop or museum (especially a 'War Museum') could help you identify it? If I were you, i would not be firing it, but would get a valueation on it, it might be worth ALOT of money.... like that square bullet musket from a while back

I also think the gun is alot older than WW2 I reckon more like WW1 or before that even?

pksu · August 8, 2009, 04:22 AM

There is no gunshop in my country. I had to help forume users to know the truth, perhaps a number of gun-lovers will figure it out.
7CM is two pipes together.Maybe 3.2CM one bore!!

To Dingoboyx: What does "If I were you, i would not be firing it, but would get a valueation on it" mean?

**JohnKSa** · August 8, 2009, 04:25 AM

A 7cm bore diameter would correspond to something larger than a quarter bore. In other words, a lead ball of muzzle diameter would weigh over 4lbs--about 4.49lbs.

The writing is English but looks like it has been copied by someone who read no or very little English. It's hard to know what's been lost in the copying process as a result.

simonkenton · August 8, 2009, 08:08 AM

He is saying that one barrel is 3.2 cm, or 32mm.
That is about 1.25 inches.

That is a punt gun.

dev_null · August 8, 2009, 10:54 AM

Is the stamped "Xinhua" (lit. "New China," but also a province, as well as a popular corporate name) a manufacturer's mark or an armory mark?

Double Naught Spy · August 8, 2009, 12:17 PM

I think it is a punt gun as well.

arcticap · August 8, 2009, 06:46 PM

According to this chart, it's just slightly less than a 2 gauge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauge_(shotgun)

When loaded with lead shot, a gun like this could be used for shooting many birds at the same time.
If loaded with round balls, there's no telling what it could be used for.

pksu · August 8, 2009, 07:58 PM

Is nothing else except a punt gun ? These are two words called my gun.1:is a small punt gun. 2: is a homemade shotgun.I think the second is much more accurate.But I think it's not Made in China.We don't have that made skill in early 1900's.I think Europe or Soviet Union is much more suitable.What do you think?

HeroHog · August 8, 2009, 08:41 PM

That is one long puppy right there! I would like to see pictures of the chambers and the bolts. How are the shells extracted?

pksu · August 8, 2009, 09:02 PM

Fix mistake: Just to look carefully measure this gun, it's about 170cm and 4.5kg.I can hold it With a little effort.Sorry

**JohnKSa** · August 8, 2009, 10:31 PM

Quote:

He is saying that one barrel is 3.2 cm, or 32mm.

Yup, you're right. That would make a lead ball of muzzle diameter about 3,000 grains.

So the gun is roughly a 2ga that's about 5.6ft long and weighs just under 10lbs.

Dingoboyx · August 8, 2009, 10:41 PM

It is a darn nice gun

I would be proud to own it, you are a lucky puppy pksu

pksu · August 8, 2009, 10:49 PM

Thank you Dingoboyx.
Sure that you judge my Speculation.

August 5, 2009, 01:04 AM	#1
pksu Member Join Date: August 2, 2009 Posts: 29	An unknown gun?Pls check it. Hi Experts I am from China.WW1 and WW2 were happend in our land.This gun was left by my grandfather.He was also know few of gun. Now I am owning this gun,I want to know further about it.Counld you tell me anything that you know or give me some key information. Look forward to your reply. Many Thanks! the link of the gun pictures: http://tinypic.com/useralbum.php?ua=...7TbGWmhw%3D%3D

August 5, 2009, 01:29 AM	#2
B. Lahey Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 2,857	Wow, that is very strange. I have never seen a bolt-action double-barreled shotgun before (although the bolts seem to act as breechplugs more than bolts). Can you post a photo of the bolts out of the gun? I can't get the bigger photos to load, so it's tough to say for sure, but it looks like it has a mixture of Russian and English writing on it, maybe other languages as well. Very very odd. Looks like it could be homemade. Thanks for sharing, it is a very unique item. Hopefully somebody here knows more about it than I do. __________________ "A human being is primarily a bag for putting food into; the other functions and faculties may be more godlike, but in point of time they come afterwards." -George Orwell

August 5, 2009, 02:21 AM	#3
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Cool Shotgun , I like rare breeds... __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

August 8, 2009, 12:54 AM	#5
B. Lahey Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 2,857	No, punt guns are enormous shotguns used for commercial hunting. They tend to be the size of small cannons, and are usually mounted on boats. That one is a much smaller shotgun of the traditional shoulder-fired type. Do you know what gauge it is? If you could measure the bore somebody could probably tell you what shells it takes (you may not want to fire it, but knowing more is always good). 13 seconds into this video, you will see a punt gun: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7FeeamC4qk __________________ "A human being is primarily a bag for putting food into; the other functions and faculties may be more godlike, but in point of time they come afterwards." -George Orwell

August 8, 2009, 01:14 AM	#7
B. Lahey Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 2,857	Wait... 16 kilos?!?! That's pretty hefty, and much larger than I could tell from the photos. It may not quite be a punt gun by the traditional definition. I don't really know the line where "huge shotgun" turns into "punt gun", but I can understand why someone would call it that. Which finger are you talking about? If it is much bigger than your thumb, it takes some very big shells. I'm guessing 8 gauge or larger, but you would have to measure. Just measure from one inside edge to the other inside edge of the barrel. Milimeters or CM would work as you seem to be on the metric side of things, but inches would work too. __________________ "A human being is primarily a bag for putting food into; the other functions and faculties may be more godlike, but in point of time they come afterwards." -George Orwell Last edited by B. Lahey; August 8, 2009 at 01:55 AM. Reason: typo

August 8, 2009, 12:44 AM	#4
pksu Member Join Date: August 2, 2009 Posts: 29	Some one says it's a punt gun.Do you agree with it.

August 8, 2009, 01:03 AM	#6
pksu Member Join Date: August 2, 2009 Posts: 29	length 172CM Weight 16KG How to measure the gauge?The gauge of this gun is much bigger than my finger.

August 8, 2009, 01:20 AM	#8
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	172 CM is about 5 feet 8 inches long. That sounds like it will have a big bore. Maybe that's big enough to shoot an elephant? The gauge stands for how many balls of bore size can be cast from 1 pound of lead. A 4 bore would make 4 bore size balls from 1 pound of lead. Now days there are standard measurements for gauge based on this old English system.

August 8, 2009, 01:28 AM	#9
B. Lahey Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 2,857	I finally got your bigger photos to load and this one is interesting. It appears to be ammunition instructions, but I have no idea what this "K" measurement is. Whatever it is, I think it takes a 50 k-weight solid shot, 5 Ks of blackpowder, or 3 Ks of "non-r powder" which may be some kind of early smokeless powder. Did your grandfather ever hunt tigers? Or elephant? NO TWIN FIRE! (don't fire both barrels at the same time). Very sound advice. __________________ "A human being is primarily a bag for putting food into; the other functions and faculties may be more godlike, but in point of time they come afterwards." -George Orwell

August 8, 2009, 01:40 AM	#10
pksu Member Join Date: August 2, 2009 Posts: 29	one inside edge to the other inside edge is about 7CM. I want to say its's behind the butt of a secret hiding places. spin two screws to open it, put a little blackpowder inside with Oilpaper .

August 8, 2009, 01:53 AM	#11
B. Lahey Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 2,857	Wow! That is HUGE! From what I have found searching around the internet, that's somewhere between a "half bore" and "AA bore" gun, which is bigger than anything I have ever heard of being shoulder-fired. Is there rifling (spiral grooves) in the barrels? The bolts look kind of like they are from Arisaka rifles (Japanese, world war two). __________________ "A human being is primarily a bag for putting food into; the other functions and faculties may be more godlike, but in point of time they come afterwards." -George Orwell

August 8, 2009, 03:10 AM	#12
Dingoboyx Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2009 Location: South East Queensland, Australia Posts: 1,513	If someone pointed THAT at me.... I'd be stopping real quick and puttin' my hands up as far as I could get 'em A friend of mine (a local gun dealer) has a blown up old black & white photo, framed on his wall, of his mate firing a 4 ball off his shoulder The guy is on one foot, (front foot off the ground) the gun is aiming up in the air (vertical) with the muzzle flash visible Evidently the guy broke his nose and dislocated his thumb as he fell flat on his back The gun in the pictures here, looks like it might have been something the Chinese from long ago, made for their own use, maybe hunting, but possibly military/navy? Can you post a picture with something to give us an idea of its dimentions? Like a breifcase (or a tape measure?) Interesting, to say the least __________________ Muzza If you cant blind them with brilliance, Baffle them with BS Be alert...... there is a shortage of LERTs

August 8, 2009, 03:19 AM	#13
Dingoboyx Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2009 Location: South East Queensland, Australia Posts: 1,513	That 12 and the circles on the bottom plate make me think it is a 12ga I think our mate measured between the barrels (inside of on to inside of other and got confused between 7 centimeters & 7 millimeters? Looking at the size of the triggers and the size of the barrels, it does look alot like a 12 ga? The bore size is definately not 7 centimeters/ 2 1/2"? measure again the size of the hole the bullet goes in at the end of one of the barrels? Is it about 17mm? Can you take it to a gunshop? or do you have to hide the fact you own the gun now? Maybe a gun shop or museum (especially a 'War Museum') could help you identify it? If I were you, i would not be firing it, but would get a valueation on it, it might be worth ALOT of money.... like that square bullet musket from a while back I also think the gun is alot older than WW2 I reckon more like WW1 or before that even? __________________ Muzza If you cant blind them with brilliance, Baffle them with BS Be alert...... there is a shortage of LERTs Last edited by Dingoboyx; August 8, 2009 at 03:40 AM.

August 8, 2009, 04:22 AM	#14
pksu Member Join Date: August 2, 2009 Posts: 29	There is no gunshop in my country. I had to help forume users to know the truth, perhaps a number of gun-lovers will figure it out. 7CM is two pipes together.Maybe 3.2CM one bore!! To Dingoboyx: What does "If I were you, i would not be firing it, but would get a valueation on it" mean? Last edited by pksu; August 8, 2009 at 04:30 AM.

August 8, 2009, 04:25 AM	#15
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,990	A 7cm bore diameter would correspond to something larger than a quarter bore. In other words, a lead ball of muzzle diameter would weigh over 4lbs--about 4.49lbs. The writing is English but looks like it has been copied by someone who read no or very little English. It's hard to know what's been lost in the copying process as a result. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

August 8, 2009, 08:08 AM	#16
simonkenton Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2008 Posts: 891	He is saying that one barrel is 3.2 cm, or 32mm. That is about 1.25 inches. That is a punt gun.

August 8, 2009, 10:54 AM	#17
dev_null Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2002 Location: Austin TX Posts: 615	Pu jidao... Is the stamped "Xinhua" (lit. "New China," but also a province, as well as a popular corporate name) a manufacturer's mark or an armory mark?

August 8, 2009, 12:17 PM	#18
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	I think it is a punt gun as well. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

August 8, 2009, 06:46 PM	#19
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	According to this chart, it's just slightly less than a 2 gauge. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauge_(shotgun) When loaded with lead shot, a gun like this could be used for shooting many birds at the same time. If loaded with round balls, there's no telling what it could be used for.

August 8, 2009, 07:58 PM	#20
pksu Member Join Date: August 2, 2009 Posts: 29	Is nothing else except a punt gun ? These are two words called my gun.1:is a small punt gun. 2: is a homemade shotgun.I think the second is much more accurate.But I think it's not Made in China.We don't have that made skill in early 1900's.I think Europe or Soviet Union is much more suitable.What do you think? Last edited by pksu; August 8, 2009 at 08:23 PM.

August 8, 2009, 08:41 PM	#21
HeroHog Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2008 Location: Shreveport, LA Posts: 486	That is one long puppy right there! I would like to see pictures of the chambers and the bolts. How are the shells extracted? __________________ Speedy AKA: Hero Hog, Dr. Speed, "That fat, old, balding, Grey-bearded gimpy guy" *I don't have NEAR enough ammo on hand. `Nuff said.*

August 8, 2009, 09:02 PM	#22
pksu Member Join Date: August 2, 2009 Posts: 29	Fix mistake: Just to look carefully measure this gun, it's about 170cm and 4.5kg.I can hold it With a little effort.Sorry

August 8, 2009, 10:41 PM	#24
Dingoboyx Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2009 Location: South East Queensland, Australia Posts: 1,513	Watever it is It is a darn nice gun I would be proud to own it, you are a lucky puppy pksu __________________ Muzza If you cant blind them with brilliance, Baffle them with BS Be alert...... there is a shortage of LERTs

August 8, 2009, 10:49 PM	#25
pksu Member Join Date: August 2, 2009 Posts: 29	Thank you Dingoboyx. Sure that you judge my Speculation.