Beam Scale Problems ???

wayne · November 19, 2001, 12:18 AM

I have a brand new Dillon Beam Scale. Just curious if any of you have ever had a faulty Beam Scale. I had a brand new Dillon a few years ago, and it worked great. I sold my reloading stuff a few years ago, and just bought new to start again.
Basically, it just does not seem to work correct. Zeroing in the scale is a real chore, if it is ever right at all. Sometimes it won't zero(all poises at zero), not enough adjustment to the leg. Figured the table is a little out of level,though my other one used to work fine on the same table, so tried it on the floor, same thing. So back up on the bench again. All of a sudden now, it will easily zero balance with the leg turned down, so I weigh a few charges, still looks funny. So check zero again, and its off, and scale itself has not moved at all. But I find, if I tap the bench a little once or twice, the scale will drift back to zero. To me this is not trustworthy enough to load with. I'm going to call Dillon, and the local Dealer I got it from on Monday, but just looking for any similar problems, for some extra knowledge of similar problems.
Thanks,

bfoster · November 19, 2001, 08:04 AM

Wayne... What about the level of your bench parallel to the axis of the scale knives (these are the the mechanical elements attached to the beam of the scale which bear upon the agate or steel vee blocks)? You can compensate for minor level problems parallel to the beam of the scale with the adjustment (zeroing) screw, but no beam type scale will function properly if it is out of level parallel to the knives. Electronic scales must also be set up on a leveled surface.

Take a few moments and level your bench. Then disassemble the scale. Check that the knives and bearings are spotlessly clean. If your scale has agate bearings check for cracks. Reassemble and try again.

If problems persist, call Dillon.

Bob

labgrade · November 19, 2001, 08:27 PM

Something's fishy.

Even if your scale won't zero out, it should repeat to whatever place it does settle at.

Try this: if your scale's pointer/zero indicator settles above zero, place a playing card, or two underneath the adjustable pivot/fulcrum at that end (usually the left side( & see if you can get the darned thing to actually zero out.

If opposite, do the other side.

Check for zero repeatability with the cards in place just to see what's up.

Could be your bech (whole house!) is so out of level, the scale can't adjust/accomodate the tilt.

In any event, see if you can level the scale to zero & do a repeatability "study." If it won't hold zero = contact the manufacturer & send the thing back.

**Mal H** · November 19, 2001, 11:40 PM

I'm putting my money on a dinged-up knife edge followed by a broken or dirty agate bearing followed by a screwy magnetic dampener.

Win - Place - Show. Let me know what I've won when you get an answer from Dillon.

WESHOOT2 · November 20, 2001, 06:37 AM

Acquire a (Lyman or RCBS) scale weight check set and use it EVERY TIME you set up your scale, or return to it.

Then you can be happy. And safer.

labgrade · November 20, 2001, 03:17 PM

Just as an aside -- magnetic dampening only works when the far-end part of the beam (that end which actually indicates weight deviation from zero, etc. = your indicator end of the beam) is in free movement. & all that is realative to the whole beams free pivot-movement on its fulcrum/knife-edge.

The whole magnetic dampening is a function of the beam's indicator end passing freely through its own "deal." W/O that free movement, you'll not get any dampening ...... 'course, if the whole things screwed up to begin with, doubtful you'll have any "free movement" enough to require any dampening anyway.

Jeeper · November 20, 2001, 03:45 PM

buy a digital one!

Bogie · November 20, 2001, 04:17 PM

Cheap weight set:

Get a box of match bullets, that you KNOW are dead on, and just save one.

Or a penny or a dime.

labgrade · November 20, 2001, 05:28 PM

Yup, "dimes & pennies" can work, if you know what they really (& actually) weigh to start with. Other than that, you're only guessing with what's "known" to be a weight of any coin ....

How many of us know what a dime weighs? & really, which dime, & with what "extra" crap they may have on 'em (fingerprints, oils, dirt, grime, etc.) that will increase their weight?

That's the/an extra "risk," if you will. Same kinda goes with "known" weight standards givem out bu those who sell "check weights." .... But, I'd suspect that these weights are better than weighing "a dime."

Digitals are just as suspect as any other method of measurement. Just because they display their readings on an XXX.XXX read-out, as oppsoed to an analog scale, is no reason to trust their reading. They merely display their readings in a different format & are just as suspect to errors as are analogs.

Every bit of it needs to be proven by judicial use of checking with known weights - zero & at a coupla different points in the scale's measurement range. .... it is the only way to be sure.

Sorry if I'm anal about this, but I am a metrolgist (science of precision physical measurements, et al) - if you want to know what your scale reads, you go through the proper methods of determining that. & that is with known standards.

You calibrate a scale (or anything else, BTW - micrometers, calipers, etc.) to KNOWN standards - nothing else.

'Course, all things are a bit relative & really don't matter all that much, most of the time - .1 grain powder weight won't matter all that much ..... usually .....

Nice to know what it is you're doing though .....

wayne · November 21, 2001, 01:03 AM

Well here is where I ended up. First off the guy on the phone at Dillon was little help. I'm sure they have a scale expert there, but this was not him, he basically mumbled. I got back to the local Dealer today where I got it. This is much better than waiting for shipping between Arizona and Ohio !! He took it out of the box, played with it a minute, same problems as I had here. Took another brand new one out of the box, and it worked like it should. He was surprised to. He has sold a few hundred of these Dillon scales over the years, and never had a bad one. He suspected the magnetic dampening, or the weighting of the support pan. He is a large commercial reloader also, who uses 650's, 1050's, and some automated machines. He uses a combination of electronic and beam scales, and knew it was bad as soon as he saw it. I'm glad I was not crazy !! Thanks for all the ideas and imput !!

Edward429451 · November 24, 2001, 11:54 AM

My RCBS scale is a little over 17 yrs old and I wondered about its accuracy when working up some near max loads for the 44 mag. Solution? Got a couple reloading buddies together and all zeroed out, then weighed some bullets on each scale to confirm the consistency of all three scales. I was comfortable with the results.

Keep it dust free spotlessly clean. I do have to nudge the beam occasionally to get it to settle right, but I thought this was the price you pay for being able to weigh charges without power or batteries. The more you play around with it the more you'll get to know its characteristics and get comfortable with it.

I did level my table though. Another thing is to keep everything away from the scale which could interfere with its dampening abilities, (Things which would hold static electricity like styrofoam, plastic, etc..) Good luck!

November 19, 2001, 12:18 AM	#1
wayne Member Join Date: March 3, 2001 Location: Northern Ohio Posts: 43	Beam Scale Problems ??? I have a brand new Dillon Beam Scale. Just curious if any of you have ever had a faulty Beam Scale. I had a brand new Dillon a few years ago, and it worked great. I sold my reloading stuff a few years ago, and just bought new to start again. Basically, it just does not seem to work correct. Zeroing in the scale is a real chore, if it is ever right at all. Sometimes it won't zero(all poises at zero), not enough adjustment to the leg. Figured the table is a little out of level,though my other one used to work fine on the same table, so tried it on the floor, same thing. So back up on the bench again. All of a sudden now, it will easily zero balance with the leg turned down, so I weigh a few charges, still looks funny. So check zero again, and its off, and scale itself has not moved at all. But I find, if I tap the bench a little once or twice, the scale will drift back to zero. To me this is not trustworthy enough to load with. I'm going to call Dillon, and the local Dealer I got it from on Monday, but just looking for any similar problems, for some extra knowledge of similar problems. Thanks, __________________ Wayne Fiala Ohio

November 20, 2001, 06:37 AM	#5
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	MANDATORY, REGARDLESS OF SCALE TYPE Acquire a (Lyman or RCBS) scale weight check set and use it EVERY TIME you set up your scale, or return to it. Then you can be happy. And safer. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

November 20, 2001, 04:17 PM	#8
Bogie Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2000 Location: Job hunting on the road... Posts: 3,827	Cheap weight set: Get a box of match bullets, that you KNOW are dead on, and just save one. Or a penny or a dime. __________________ Job hunting, but helping a friend out at www.vikingmachineusa.com - and learning the finer aspects of becoming a precision machinist. And making the world's greatest bottle openers!

November 21, 2001, 01:03 AM	#10
wayne Member Join Date: March 3, 2001 Location: Northern Ohio Posts: 43	Well here is where I ended up. First off the guy on the phone at Dillon was little help. I'm sure they have a scale expert there, but this was not him, he basically mumbled. I got back to the local Dealer today where I got it. This is much better than waiting for shipping between Arizona and Ohio !! He took it out of the box, played with it a minute, same problems as I had here. Took another brand new one out of the box, and it worked like it should. He was surprised to. He has sold a few hundred of these Dillon scales over the years, and never had a bad one. He suspected the magnetic dampening, or the weighting of the support pan. He is a large commercial reloader also, who uses 650's, 1050's, and some automated machines. He uses a combination of electronic and beam scales, and knew it was bad as soon as he saw it. I'm glad I was not crazy !! Thanks for all the ideas and imput !! __________________ Wayne Fiala Ohio

November 19, 2001, 08:04 AM	#2
bfoster Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 1998 Location: N. of Fords Switch, OK, USA Posts: 297	Wayne... What about the level of your bench parallel to the axis of the scale knives (these are the the mechanical elements attached to the beam of the scale which bear upon the agate or steel vee blocks)? You can compensate for minor level problems parallel to the beam of the scale with the adjustment (zeroing) screw, but no beam type scale will function properly if it is out of level parallel to the knives. Electronic scales must also be set up on a leveled surface. Take a few moments and level your bench. Then disassemble the scale. Check that the knives and bearings are spotlessly clean. If your scale has agate bearings check for cracks. Reassemble and try again. If problems persist, call Dillon. Bob

November 19, 2001, 08:27 PM	#3
labgrade Member In Memoriam Join Date: November 29, 1999 Location: west of a small town, CO Posts: 4,346	Something's fishy. Even if your scale won't zero out, it should repeat to whatever place it does settle at. Try this: if your scale's pointer/zero indicator settles above zero, place a playing card, or two underneath the adjustable pivot/fulcrum at that end (usually the left side( & see if you can get the darned thing to actually zero out. If opposite, do the other side. Check for zero repeatability with the cards in place just to see what's up. Could be your bech (whole house!) is so out of level, the scale can't adjust/accomodate the tilt. In any event, see if you can level the scale to zero & do a repeatability "study." If it won't hold zero = contact the manufacturer & send the thing back.

November 19, 2001, 11:40 PM	#4
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,955	I'm putting my money on a dinged-up knife edge followed by a broken or dirty agate bearing followed by a screwy magnetic dampener. Win - Place - Show. Let me know what I've won when you get an answer from Dillon.

November 20, 2001, 03:17 PM	#6
labgrade Member In Memoriam Join Date: November 29, 1999 Location: west of a small town, CO Posts: 4,346	Just as an aside -- magnetic dampening only works when the far-end part of the beam (that end which actually indicates weight deviation from zero, etc. = your indicator end of the beam) is in free movement. & all that is realative to the whole beams free pivot-movement on its fulcrum/knife-edge. The whole magnetic dampening is a function of the beam's indicator end passing freely through its own "deal." W/O that free movement, you'll not get any dampening ...... 'course, if the whole things screwed up to begin with, doubtful you'll have any "free movement" enough to require any dampening anyway.

November 20, 2001, 03:45 PM	#7
Jeeper Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 2001 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 776	buy a digital one!

November 20, 2001, 05:28 PM	#9
labgrade Member In Memoriam Join Date: November 29, 1999 Location: west of a small town, CO Posts: 4,346	Yup, "dimes & pennies" can work, if you know what they really (& actually) weigh to start with. Other than that, you're only guessing with what's "known" to be a weight of any coin .... How many of us know what a dime weighs? & really, which dime, & with what "extra" crap they may have on 'em (fingerprints, oils, dirt, grime, etc.) that will increase their weight? That's the/an extra "risk," if you will. Same kinda goes with "known" weight standards givem out bu those who sell "check weights." .... But, I'd suspect that these weights are better than weighing "a dime." Digitals are just as suspect as any other method of measurement. Just because they display their readings on an XXX.XXX read-out, as oppsoed to an analog scale, is no reason to trust their reading. They merely display their readings in a different format & are just as suspect to errors as are analogs. Every bit of it needs to be proven by judicial use of checking with known weights - zero & at a coupla different points in the scale's measurement range. .... it is the only way to be sure. Sorry if I'm anal about this, but I am a metrolgist (science of precision physical measurements, et al) - if you want to know what your scale reads, you go through the proper methods of determining that. & that is with known standards. You calibrate a scale (or anything else, BTW - micrometers, calipers, etc.) to KNOWN standards - nothing else. 'Course, all things are a bit relative & really don't matter all that much, most of the time - .1 grain powder weight won't matter all that much ..... usually ..... Nice to know what it is you're doing though .....

November 24, 2001, 11:54 AM	#11
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	My RCBS scale is a little over 17 yrs old and I wondered about its accuracy when working up some near max loads for the 44 mag. Solution? Got a couple reloading buddies together and all zeroed out, then weighed some bullets on each scale to confirm the consistency of all three scales. I was comfortable with the results. Keep it dust free spotlessly clean. I do have to nudge the beam occasionally to get it to settle right, but I thought this was the price you pay for being able to weigh charges without power or batteries. The more you play around with it the more you'll get to know its characteristics and get comfortable with it. I did level my table though. Another thing is to keep everything away from the scale which could interfere with its dampening abilities, (Things which would hold static electricity like styrofoam, plastic, etc..) Good luck!