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View Poll Results: Unless you gave specific permission to do so, do you think your 4473 is confidential? | |||
Yes, I believe it is confidential and as such no one but the ATF should have access. | 23 | 76.67% | |
No, I believe the dealer may share it with whom they choose. | 6 | 20.00% | |
What do you mean my dealer could "sell" my 4473? | 1 | 3.33% | |
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll |
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April 29, 2015, 09:56 AM | #51 | |
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Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 13,059
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Quote:
If such an argument has been successfully made, I have not seen it.
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April 29, 2015, 12:11 PM | #52 | ||
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Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 9,471
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Quote:
Anyone think that accurately describes the relationship between an FFL (or any business requiring a federal license to operate) and the federal government?
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"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
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April 29, 2015, 03:44 PM | #53 |
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Join Date: October 13, 2001
Posts: 3,355
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Frank, you mentioned SSNs are optional. That may be true, but what practical difference does it make? Some 4473s have them, so does the FFL have to vet their stack of 4473s and hold back the ones with SSNs before deciding to voluntarily hand them over to someone else, and that makes the voluntary disclosure acceptable?
Even the rest of the form including birthdate and name/address can aid identity theft without the SSN. Knowledge that a person bought a gun, or even has a gun, also should be private; that's one of the reasons we all get so upset when some liberal newspaper decides to out CHL/CCW holders based on states' foolish decisions to make CHL lists public records. Is the FFL at risk of being sued for breach of privacy or some other tort if they release 4473s without a court order?
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“The egg hatched...” “...the egg hatched... and a hundred baby spiders came out...” (blade runner) “Who are you?” “A friend. I'm here to prevent you from making a mistake.” “You have no idea what I'm doing here, friend.” “In specific terms, no, but I swore an oath to protect the world...” (continuum) “It's a goal you won't understand until later. Your job is to make sure he doesn't achieve the goal.” (bsg) |
April 29, 2015, 04:30 PM | #54 |
Junior member
Join Date: August 28, 2012
Posts: 240
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For the "It's a Privacy Act matter" minded folks.... Exactly what information contained on the 4473 is protected under the Privacy Act?
May I suggest reading a 4473 and seeing? (hint, hint, it is by no means every entry on the form.) The good news, is that every FFL dealer I've spoken to (and there have been quite a few over the years, is quite adamant about keeping your information private, even at the risk of losing potential special deals and discounts (as we see in this case, btw.) |
April 29, 2015, 05:42 PM | #55 | ||
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Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 9,471
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Quote:
A legal duty could arise from a statute expressly prohibiting certain disclosures (perhaps subject to certain conditions or with certain exceptions). So far we've seen statutes from only two States providing limited or unclear protection of the 4473. Absent an applicable statute, the recourse for someone aggrieved by an FFL's allegedly wrongful disclosure of information on a 4473 seems to be pretty much limited to a lawsuit for invasion of privacy. Whether someone could state a good invasion of privacy claim against an FFL for disclosure of 4473 information will depend on a number of factors, including the information disclosed, the circumstances of, and purposes for, disclosure, and whether any actual injury can be shown to have resulted from such disclosure. Exactly what happened, how it happened and why it happened will make a difference. So an FFL standing on the street corner distributing photocopies of random 4473s to passersby would be one thing. But allowing a representative of a manufacture to inspect 4473s to audit compliance by the FFL with the terms of a business arrangement between the FFL and manufacturer would be another thing. Quote:
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"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
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April 29, 2015, 07:03 PM | #56 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: February 23, 2013
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 720
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Ok...This quote from Tom Servo
Quote:
And this from Frank Ettin pretty much sums up the spirit of this thread. Quote:
But TimSR has the right of it though when he stated: Quote:
So. Even though there might not be much more discussion on this, I'd like to ask the moderators not shut it down for a couple more days, in case any more folks care to participate in the poll. |
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