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Old November 4, 2002, 11:22 PM   #1
wayne
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Hornady LNL AP, is everybody still happy ???????

Hello, after scanning the web in search for a new press, I'm either looking at the Dillon 550/650, RCBS Pro 2000, or the Hornady LNL. This particular forum seems to contain the largest group of positive comments on the Hornady found anywhere. The common problems with priming, loaded round ejection seem to be the same from everybody. What really bothers me is that it seems everybody has had to modify their own Hornady LNL to get it to work. I really liked the Hornady LNL since I first saw it a year or so ago, but don't really want to have to modify something to make it work. So that is my question, is the Hornady still working good for you since all the posts I read from earlier this year ? What have you had to do to keep it running. Any info that you would like to share on the other presses I mentioned would also be welcome.
Thanks,
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Old November 5, 2002, 12:25 AM   #2
Shoney
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I have loaded lots of ammo on the 550 and only several thousands on a 650, and bought the Hornady L-N-L AP. I have not modified mine in any way, and still have no regrets. I clean up spilled powder immediately and that stoped primimg problems.

In addition to lots of different pistol cartridges with varying loads, I load a lot of rifle cartridges using the progressive for all but the seating. The L-N-L has the greater advantage, and is more versatile. It takes less than a second to remove a die, remove the powder measure, or add another die. Powder changes take less than a minute, and can be dialed in quickly and accurately with the micrometer. The quick change features come in very handy to remove all but the sizing die for rifle loading; - - size and prime, then clean the lubricant from the brass; - - remove the sizing die, add the powder measure, charge all the cartridges; - - hand weigh each charge, then seat on single stage press.

If you consider the cost of a 650 with three caliber change outs, the L-N-L with the same change outs is half the cost.

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Old November 5, 2002, 12:33 PM   #3
uglymofo
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Yup, works great

I had some ferocious teething problems with my LNL AP, all related to the priming operation. It turned out that I was using 45ACP milsurp brass (about 30% of all my 45acp brass) that wasn't swaged well enough for the primer punch to overcome the resistance. My Dillon 450 has a longer primer punch and more leverage because of that excess punch length, and was I was able to overcome the problem by brute force on the 450. Finally a Hornady technician caught the cause of error in a phone exchange; I had to readjust the primer pocket swager, but since then, I've been completely satisfied.

I might have found the problem much sooner had I reloaded another caliber first, as all the rest of my brass in all the other calibers is commercial brass and has never posed a problem for the LNL AP.
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Old November 5, 2002, 01:45 PM   #4
MADISON
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Yes!..... Hornady LNL

Go with the Hornady LNL. It has not been back to the factory after 13 years of continuous loading.
[The Hornady Projector--the predocessor to L-N-L.]
The priming is a joke. Get yourself an RCBS Auto.
Priming Tool [Bench Mounted] part No> 09460 to go with the L-N-L.
The ejection problem can easily be solved, like I did. CLEAN THE SHELL PLATE[s] and the shell will not stick. I soaked them in Hoppies #9 for a few hours then, brushed out the holder areas.
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Old November 5, 2002, 02:25 PM   #5
John Forsyth
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I am very happy with mine. Hornady is supposed to be coming out with a case feeder for the LNL AP. When they do, I will get it.
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Old November 5, 2002, 05:15 PM   #6
Guy B. Meredith
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To begin with the L-N-L has most of the features and all the quality of the Dillon 650 at or below the cost of a Dillon 550. The case feeder will bring it one step closer. Then it has it's own unique features not found on the other brands.

The unit works fine out of the box if you remember to keep powder off the primer shuttle and punch. Any mods of which I am aware are just gravy and more 650 features for less than $20 more.

20,000 rounds and counting. (More slowly these days as money is diverted to a mortgage.)
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Old November 6, 2002, 12:05 AM   #7
wayne
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Madison, it seems you are not the only one that has reported priming problems, as that is the main complaint across the web. That one issue bothers me thanks for the info.
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Old November 6, 2002, 12:13 AM   #8
wayne
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Guy,
I hope you have a few extra bucks for the case feeder for the LNL do out soon with that mortgage and all !
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Old November 6, 2002, 12:24 AM   #9
wayne
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It seems as all you guys are still pretty happy with your LNL, and that keeping spilled powder off the primer slide is important. I had one guy email me about rust. He claims another problem he has had is rust forming on all the exposed metal sufaces, like on the powder mechanisms and other unpainted steel on the press. He said Hornady told him that they do not coat or plate any of that exposed metal surfaces, thus they may rust ??
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Old November 6, 2002, 01:26 AM   #10
Bill Adair
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Rust should not be a problem if you use and store the press in your home, or other temperature controlled area where temperature and humidity swings are gradual. It's the rapid temperature swings in an unheated work area that cause rust on exposed metal. When the ambient temperature goes up, water vapor condenses on cold metal surfaces.

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Old November 6, 2002, 02:01 AM   #11
Cal4D4
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For me the priming problems are the issue. Rust? Sure, setup is in garage with washer & dryer. Good quality press with an absolute failure at a reliable priming system. Even with the weighted dowel down the primer tube, lock nut added to anvil holder and absolute cleanliness (except for a little dry graphite) there still is about a 2-5% failure to prime. Priming anvil snags shuttle occasionally, causing destruction. I could probably deburr and bevel, but the factory could also. I prime with a hand tool (RCBS) which is 100% reliable. Powder measure and other press features are top notch, except for die interference with ejector at station 5. Good high quality auto turret press.
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Old November 6, 2002, 08:42 PM   #12
wayne
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Cal,
It is to bad they have not addressed that priming issue, though some here seem to have success. It just seems that you should be able to prime with it...
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Old November 6, 2002, 09:25 PM   #13
Cal4D4
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I think it could be made to work, but I had too many no primer rounds to ever trust it again. I am in no hurry, and priming off press works great.
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Old November 6, 2002, 11:47 PM   #14
David Wile
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Hey folks,

I have had my L&L since they first came out almost ten years ago, and I have not had to make any modifications. The only part that has required replacement has been the shell plate case holding spring, and Hornady sent me two of them for free. As far as the priming operation goes, my works just fine, but I do have to be very exacting in my operation of the machine. I also use a wood dowel in the primer tube to force the last primer out and as an indicater of when the tube is empty. I like mine just fine and am most satisfied with it. I take my time loading with it, and it works quite reliably.

I hear some folks talk about loading 600 or a thousand rounds an hour, and these are the same folks who have problems with their finished product. I just do not get it. Why do folks place so much importance on how many rounds can be loaded in an hour? I would rather have a hundred good rounds in an hour than a thousand bad ones. To me, reloading is just as much an art, a hobby, and a challenge as shooting. Take your time and enjoy it. As for me, if and when Hornady comes out with an auto case feeder, I doubt if I really want one. I like the L&L just as it is, and I can already load far more ammunition much faster than I have time to shoot it.

And, to tell the truth, I spend more time loading ammunition on my old Rockchucker than my L&L. Not because my L&L does not do a good job, but, rather, because I load a lot of small quantities of test ammunition, and the single stage press works better for such jobs. I like my L&L, but I have also liked my Rockchucker for a lot more years. They both do good jobs.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile
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Old November 8, 2002, 04:23 PM   #15
Jamie B
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LNL AP Casefeeder

'We will have an automatic case feeder available in January. Thank you
for your interest'.

Received this response from Hornady's website last week. I am going to purchase the LNL AP since the casefeeder is coming soon.

JAmie
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Old November 8, 2002, 09:29 PM   #16
wayne
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I appreciate what was brought up so far on the Hornady LNL AP. I like a lot of the features of this press, which I have got to look at extensively. The upcoming case feeder is also nice. I also have had a chance to actually use the RCBS Pro 2000 at a reloading seminar. It is pretty nice, smooth and robust. It has a very smooth feel to it. I also all ready own a Dillon Square Deal. It is a great little machine, that works and primes perfectly, BUT it is so small it is hard to work on in my opinion, that is why I want to get rid of it. My real hang up with the Hornady is that if I buy a brand new unit, I don't think I should have to hand prime, make up wood dowels to follow primers, and some of the other complaints that follow this product all over the place. I wish that after the 3 years or so the LNL AP has been around they would have fixed the issues. I guess my alternatives are the RCBS or other Dillon Models 550/650. Still looking !
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Old November 8, 2002, 10:04 PM   #17
uglymofo
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Dunno what to advise. I have and like the Dillon 450 for my semi-auto rifle competition reloads, but it requires a Forster powder drop w/ PACT electronic scale and trickler for powder charge accuracy. The Dillon powder measure ranks far behind the Hornady's. (I'd rank the Dillon powder measure as the least accurate and consistent I've ever worked with; RCBS, Lee, Forster and Hornady all yield much more consistent results without any hassles.) I'll use the LNL AP on any non-"auto" rifle ammo. The LNL won't seat the primers below flush, and that can and has led to slamfires in the M1A. But no troubles in a bolt rifle. For pounding out a lot of pistol ammo, my LNL AP works great, but I admit to having to baby the priming system--one example is I use the brass-weighted aluminum rod from the Dillon 450 to force the primers. I just don't trust the LNL primer feed to work by gravity alone, because of previous errors I made.

Also, sometimes a snug primer pocket can be a pain because it requires that I double check to insure the primer was seated completely.

On the other hand, the price beats the hell out of the Dillon 5/650 for caliber versatility. For example, the cost to change calibers was $41 total for 4 bushings ($12), shellplate ($23), and powder measure die ($6).

In my opinion, the powder measure is the best on the market that is included with a progressive press; it handles everything within +-.2gr except IMR 4064 (+-.3gr) ; and within +-.05gr for Alliant 2400, AA #9, WW231; it's within +- .15gr for IMR 4895 and Varget.

By the way, I got off the phone with Hornady CS yesterday; the case feeder is due on the "first of the year" and should cost around $180 retail. I'm guessing the internet price for that should be in the $120-150 range.

Somebody asked me whether I'd rather spend about $600 on a decked-out Dillon 650 and still need 2-3 caliber changes and be able to load ~1000/hr, or if I'd settle on spending about $400 for an LNL AP including 3 caliber changes and 5 stations and reload 400/hour. That's pretty much what it boils down to. The Hornady case feeder's cost will bump it right nearer the Dillon 650 price range when Dillon's add-ons are considered, but the Dillon will still cost additionally more to change calibers.

During my self-induced primer woes, I found that Hornady doesn't tout themselves as "No BS", but their warranty service was as good as Dillon's.
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Old November 12, 2002, 10:35 PM   #18
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Just got it

I bought the LNL AP after doing a lot of research on presses and using the D550, I didnot buy the D650 because of all the complains I keep hearing. Hornady is very good, I did sent them a few emails on recommendations and they responded to every one.

They are coming out with the casefeeder in January and also a new primer feeding, no more taking out the hole tube. The new one is supposed to be filled from the top like the Dillons.
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Old November 13, 2002, 12:25 AM   #19
MilesTeg
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When does the new primer feed come out and can it be retro fitted?
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Old November 13, 2002, 06:05 PM   #20
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There is a picture of the new casefeeder in the latest Front Sight magazine. I will scan it and post a pic when time permits.
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Old November 13, 2002, 11:41 PM   #21
David Wile
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Hey Wayne,

You mentioned that you have a Dillon Square Deal that works and primes perfectly for you, but you are concerned about the Hornady L&L being able to do the same. I submit to you that getting the Hornady to prime properly is no more difficult than getting the Square Deal to do so. You have to understand the mechanical workings of whatever system you are using and make the necessary adjustments to have it working properly. Believe me, the L&L will prime properly if it is adjusted properly and the user operates it properly.

As far as using a wood dowel in the primer tube of the L&L, it is used to insure the last primer is fed into the primer slide. It isn't absolutely necessary, but it does help with the last primer in the tube. And, by the way, many years ago, when many of us used the old auto primer feature on the RCBS Rockchucker, we had the same problem of getting the last one or two primers to feed into the primer feeder. The use of a wood dowel in the RCBS primer tube also worked to get the last two primers to feed properly.

The fact that the last couple of primers did not feed properly did not make the RCBS auto primer feature a bad feature. Back in the late 1960s, I thought I was really in heaven when I was able to buy the RCBS auto primer feature for my Rockchucker. By the 1970s, I discovered the Lee hand primer tool and gave up on the RCBS auto primer.

Later still, I bought the RCBS hand primer tool, but, to this day, I still use the Lee tool for most of my priming - unless I am loading on the L&L which works just fine even if I am back to using a wood dowel again.

Do not judge any of the presses just because someone states that they cannot get it to function properly. I have heard the same complaints from different folks about Dillon, Hornady, Lee, and RCBS. There are lots of folks using those same Dillon, Hornady, Lee, and RCBS presses and managing to get them to function quite well.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile
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