Help me proof my first load

TheFineLine · January 4, 2015, 02:55 PM

I've finally done my first handload. Would you please look it over and see f I'm making any mistake? I have a couple of concerns; One is that the bullet appears to be seated where the case mouth comes past the (ogive?). I've checked the minimum OAL (1.213) repeatedly and I'm a little longer at 1.214. The case mouth diameter after crimping is just over .471. The plunk test works just fine. I checked the oal of my Dan Wesson Valor ant it is 1.310 so I will probably work up the round with a longer oal but I want to make sure there isn't anything dangerous here. Second concern is that you can tell where the bullet seats in the brass on the outside of the brass in the neck. You can see it in the pic below. What do you think?

Tex S · January 4, 2015, 03:01 PM

Looks short, but I'm not familiar with that particular bullet. Where did you get your data?

Dan Wessons are cool. I have a CBOB and Marksman.

bluetopper · January 4, 2015, 03:06 PM

Looks seated deep to me too. I'd want just a bit of the full circumference of the bullet sticking out of the brass.

cw308 · January 4, 2015, 03:54 PM

What dies are you using, did you flair the case mouth also use a taper crimp. your reload seems fine, stay with the listed measurements,don't have to load to the max. see what works well in your handgun. Clean your brass,primer pocket & flash hole. Cleaning your brass will keep your dies problem free. Read everything & take your time.

TheFineLine · January 4, 2015, 03:58 PM

Hornady 9th edition manual. Hornady dies with taper crimp. I did flare to .474 and crimped to .471.

{Sorry, you cannot reproduce copyrighted materials without permission from the copyright holder as well as the attribution (which you did make). Board policy on posting copyrighted materials applies to all such materials, printed or web-based or otherwise.}

Nick_C_S · January 4, 2015, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Looks short, but I'm not familiar with that particular bullet.

Me too. I see a consensus building.

Now Buffalo Bore uses the Hornady 185 XTP (Item #45100 - the one in the illustration above); and they load it to 1.204". For whatever that's worth.

At any rate TheFineLine, I think you're good to go. We can ponder OAL all day long. We're not going to know more until you go out and shoot 'em. I'm sure you're well within the parameters of safety. Go give 'em a whirl.

bluetopper · January 4, 2015, 05:34 PM

I pay no attention to published flare or crimp dimensions, I just flare just enough to get the base of the bullet started in the brass, whatever size that might be. And put just a ever so slight crimp on the brass to get the flare back out and snugged the brass to the bullet. Never do I measure them.

condor bravo · January 4, 2015, 06:15 PM

I agree with Tex and Bluetopper. If for no other reason than appearance, that may make no difference with functionability, back off slightly on the seating depth so that a very small extension but complete circumference of the bullet can be seen above the case neck.

9mmSkeeter · January 4, 2015, 06:26 PM

KB waiting to happen.

joking aside, it's seated a little deep but most likely the only thing you'll experience is a little lack of accuracy. Try it and see. I'd back off on the seating die half a turn and see where you're at.

1stmar · January 4, 2015, 06:31 PM

I agree on seating depth appearing to deep, also not much of a taper crimp. I'd carefully hand cycle a few before reloading a bunch.

BOOMST1CK · January 4, 2015, 06:44 PM

I'm with everybody else on a "little short" diagnosis. The slight bulge is normal from the bullet. How many did you make? I would make a few more with a slight increase in powder, I usually make a magazine worth while upping the charge in .2 increments per mag. Boy do I love me the longshot, pours good in my progressive press and I can load a lot of different pistol calibers with it.

cw308 · January 4, 2015, 07:22 PM

On a taper crimp a slight bright ring will appear at the edge of the case, you can see the taper. just bring the die down alittle.

9mmSkeeter · January 4, 2015, 07:31 PM

Also, in the words of this video at 2:08...dude dude dude dude, there's not a man alive who doesn't want to have perfect loads, BUT, you are way over thinking the whole process by weighing the case and the primer by itself. Once in awhile ill weigh the bullet to make sure the grain is right, but you've got to trust there is a certain level of quality control with your components :-) It just seems OCD and if you want to do it, that's fine, but you don't HAVE to. :-)

std7mag · January 4, 2015, 07:59 PM

I'm going with the concensus,
If it were me, I'd try loading to about 1.230", a dummy round, and see if it works in the magazine, and how it chambers.
If you need to, you can always shorten COL a little from there.
If the 1.230" works, then I would also load at least to the 7.7gr. of Longshot that your manual shows.

Good luck, safe shooting.

std7mag

4runnerman · January 4, 2015, 08:31 PM

I agree with most here-Looks kinds short. There does not seem to be a crimp on it either. Take a pic and post with bullet laying along side this one to show how much of bullet is inside case.

TheFineLine · January 4, 2015, 09:25 PM

I've only loaded 5 of them. Although I'm using a LNL AP, this is my first time loading and I don't know anyone else that does it so I'm taking my time going one at a time to get familiar with the process. I probably am overdoing the measuring (I even recorded the thickness of the brass) but I'm not 100% sure of what all I'll wish I had saved in the future as I get better at this. I'm going to try and hand cycle them through a few different 45's here shortly and see if they'll feed. The longshot has been coming out within .025 each time I've metered it. Thinking that's pretty good. I tried crimping a little more but the cases hang up in the die.

Best pic I could think of.

Nick_C_S · January 4, 2015, 10:12 PM

Yeah, they're almost certainly seated just a touch deep. I'd say maybe 10/1000ths. If you have an inertia puller, you can tap them out a little, then reseat/crimp them further out. If not, just leave 'em. They're fine. Go shoot.

TheFineLine · January 4, 2015, 11:11 PM

So I've been searching online and apparently Hornady changed the ogive on these bullets a few months ago and the data didn't make it into the 9th edition. From another forum

"I received a response from Hornady on this.
Thank you for the inquiry. We did change the ogive angle on these bullets to eliminate an interference point in certain makes of weapons that utilized match chambers. This change well be seen in our .451" XTP bullets and is the dimension we will continue to use on future production runs. We recommend a COL of 1.235" - 1.245" with bullets produced after this change. Thank you.

Pretty quick and precise answer. Time to do another load workup. "

I will confirm this with Hornady tomorrow.

cheezhed · January 4, 2015, 11:59 PM

Make certain that when you taper crimp that you do not crimp to the point that you lose your head space and I also think that it is to deep.

TheFineLine · January 5, 2015, 12:34 AM

empty test round on the left increased to 1.230. Looks better, plunks, and 7 of them cycled just fine through the Valor, Para Pro 14.45, and Kimber UCII.

BOOMST1CK · January 5, 2015, 12:57 AM

I like it. I load 45's for my BIL(he helps), and we never load HP rounds, we do load a lot of berry RN bullets in 230gr. We set OAL at 1.260.

jimbob86 · January 5, 2015, 12:57 AM

The first ones looked short, to me .....

I've never loaded bullets that light, but IME, my 1911 fed best when the length was kept longish ....

Quote:

and crimped to .471.

Bill Wilson's The Combat Auto has in it a recomendation for a crimp of .469" ..... I've always done that and never had any problems ....

TheFineLine · January 5, 2015, 10:38 AM

I just got off the phone with the Hornady rep. They did change the ogive on all the .451 XTP/HAP bullets. The new recommended COAL is 1.235-1.245.

Looks like I'll need to lengthen it just a little more.

higgite · January 5, 2015, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFineLine

I just got off the phone with the Hornady rep. They did change the ogive on all the XTP/HAP bullets. The new recommended COAL is 1.235-1.245.

Looks like I'll need to lengthen it just a little more.

Hmm, after reading this, I just called to see if they had also changed the profile on their 9mm bullets and the rep said the only XTP-HP/HAP that they changed the ogive on is the 230 gr, 45ACP. He was pretty emphatic.

TheFineLine · January 5, 2015, 11:41 AM

I edited my post to confirm that the ogive change is only on the 451 bullets, however it is on every different grain of those bullets.

They said that they made the change because of feeding interference on higher end 1911s.

January 4, 2015, 02:55 PM	#1
TheFineLine Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2012 Location: The Great State of Texas Posts: 210	Help me proof my first load I've finally done my first handload. Would you please look it over and see f I'm making any mistake? I have a couple of concerns; One is that the bullet appears to be seated where the case mouth comes past the (ogive?). I've checked the minimum OAL (1.213) repeatedly and I'm a little longer at 1.214. The case mouth diameter after crimping is just over .471. The plunk test works just fine. I checked the oal of my Dan Wesson Valor ant it is 1.310 so I will probably work up the round with a longer oal but I want to make sure there isn't anything dangerous here. Second concern is that you can tell where the bullet seats in the brass on the outside of the brass in the neck. You can see it in the pic below. What do you think?

January 4, 2015, 03:58 PM	#5
TheFineLine Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2012 Location: The Great State of Texas Posts: 210	Hornady 9th edition manual. Hornady dies with taper crimp. I did flare to .474 and crimped to .471. {Sorry, you cannot reproduce copyrighted materials without permission from the copyright holder as well as the attribution (which you did make). Board policy on posting copyrighted materials applies to all such materials, printed or web-based or otherwise.} Last edited by Unclenick; January 5, 2015 at 11:27 AM.

January 4, 2015, 06:26 PM	#9
9mmSkeeter Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2014 Location: South Dakota Posts: 205	KB waiting to happen. joking aside, it's seated a little deep but most likely the only thing you'll experience is a little lack of accuracy. Try it and see. I'd back off on the seating die half a turn and see where you're at. __________________ I kind of like weaponry.

January 4, 2015, 07:31 PM	#13
9mmSkeeter Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2014 Location: South Dakota Posts: 205	Also, in the words of this video at 2:08...dude dude dude dude, there's not a man alive who doesn't want to have perfect loads, BUT, you are way over thinking the whole process by weighing the case and the primer by itself. Once in awhile ill weigh the bullet to make sure the grain is right, but you've got to trust there is a certain level of quality control with your components :-) It just seems OCD and if you want to do it, that's fine, but you don't HAVE to. :-) __________________ I kind of like weaponry.

January 4, 2015, 08:31 PM	#15
4runnerman Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,577	I agree with most here-Looks kinds short. There does not seem to be a crimp on it either. Take a pic and post with bullet laying along side this one to show how much of bullet is inside case. __________________ NRA Certified RSO NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional

January 4, 2015, 03:01 PM	#2
Tex S Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2008 Location: Fort Worth, TEXAS Posts: 909	Looks short, but I'm not familiar with that particular bullet. Where did you get your data? Dan Wessons are cool. I have a CBOB and Marksman.

January 4, 2015, 03:06 PM	#3
bluetopper Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2005 Location: Northeast TX Posts: 1,197	Looks seated deep to me too. I'd want just a bit of the full circumference of the bullet sticking out of the brass.

January 4, 2015, 03:54 PM	#4
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	What dies are you using, did you flair the case mouth also use a taper crimp. your reload seems fine, stay with the listed measurements,don't have to load to the max. see what works well in your handgun. Clean your brass,primer pocket & flash hole. Cleaning your brass will keep your dies problem free. Read everything & take your time.

January 4, 2015, 05:34 PM	#7
bluetopper Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2005 Location: Northeast TX Posts: 1,197	I pay no attention to published flare or crimp dimensions, I just flare just enough to get the base of the bullet started in the brass, whatever size that might be. And put just a ever so slight crimp on the brass to get the flare back out and snugged the brass to the bullet. Never do I measure them.

January 4, 2015, 06:15 PM	#8
condor bravo Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2014 Location: Nevada/Ariz/CA Posts: 1,753	I agree with Tex and Bluetopper. If for no other reason than appearance, that may make no difference with functionability, back off slightly on the seating depth so that a very small extension but complete circumference of the bullet can be seen above the case neck.

January 4, 2015, 06:31 PM	#10
1stmar Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,378	I agree on seating depth appearing to deep, also not much of a taper crimp. I'd carefully hand cycle a few before reloading a bunch.

January 4, 2015, 06:44 PM	#11
BOOMST1CK Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2014 Posts: 117	I'm with everybody else on a "little short" diagnosis. The slight bulge is normal from the bullet. How many did you make? I would make a few more with a slight increase in powder, I usually make a magazine worth while upping the charge in .2 increments per mag. Boy do I love me the longshot, pours good in my progressive press and I can load a lot of different pistol calibers with it.

January 4, 2015, 07:22 PM	#12
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	On a taper crimp a slight bright ring will appear at the edge of the case, you can see the taper. just bring the die down alittle.

January 4, 2015, 07:59 PM	#14
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	I'm going with the concensus, If it were me, I'd try loading to about 1.230", a dummy round, and see if it works in the magazine, and how it chambers. If you need to, you can always shorten COL a little from there. If the 1.230" works, then I would also load at least to the 7.7gr. of Longshot that your manual shows. Good luck, safe shooting. std7mag

January 4, 2015, 09:25 PM	#16
TheFineLine Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2012 Location: The Great State of Texas Posts: 210	I've only loaded 5 of them. Although I'm using a LNL AP, this is my first time loading and I don't know anyone else that does it so I'm taking my time going one at a time to get familiar with the process. I probably am overdoing the measuring (I even recorded the thickness of the brass) but I'm not 100% sure of what all I'll wish I had saved in the future as I get better at this. I'm going to try and hand cycle them through a few different 45's here shortly and see if they'll feed. The longshot has been coming out within .025 each time I've metered it. Thinking that's pretty good. I tried crimping a little more but the cases hang up in the die. Best pic I could think of.

January 4, 2015, 10:12 PM	#17
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,523	Yeah, they're almost certainly seated just a touch deep. I'd say maybe 10/1000ths. If you have an inertia puller, you can tap them out a little, then reseat/crimp them further out. If not, just leave 'em. They're fine. Go shoot. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

January 4, 2015, 11:11 PM	#18
TheFineLine Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2012 Location: The Great State of Texas Posts: 210	So I've been searching online and apparently Hornady changed the ogive on these bullets a few months ago and the data didn't make it into the 9th edition. From another forum "I received a response from Hornady on this. Thank you for the inquiry. We did change the ogive angle on these bullets to eliminate an interference point in certain makes of weapons that utilized match chambers. This change well be seen in our .451" XTP bullets and is the dimension we will continue to use on future production runs. We recommend a COL of 1.235" - 1.245" with bullets produced after this change. Thank you. Pretty quick and precise answer. Time to do another load workup. " I will confirm this with Hornady tomorrow. Last edited by TheFineLine; January 4, 2015 at 11:29 PM.

January 4, 2015, 11:59 PM	#19
cheezhed Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2007 Posts: 302	Make certain that when you taper crimp that you do not crimp to the point that you lose your head space and I also think that it is to deep.

January 5, 2015, 12:34 AM	#20
TheFineLine Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2012 Location: The Great State of Texas Posts: 210	empty test round on the left increased to 1.230. Looks better, plunks, and 7 of them cycled just fine through the Valor, Para Pro 14.45, and Kimber UCII.

January 5, 2015, 12:57 AM	#21
BOOMST1CK Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2014 Posts: 117	I like it. I load 45's for my BIL(he helps), and we never load HP rounds, we do load a lot of berry RN bullets in 230gr. We set OAL at 1.260.

January 5, 2015, 10:38 AM	#23
TheFineLine Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2012 Location: The Great State of Texas Posts: 210	I just got off the phone with the Hornady rep. They did change the ogive on all the .451 XTP/HAP bullets. The new recommended COAL is 1.235-1.245. Looks like I'll need to lengthen it just a little more. Last edited by TheFineLine; January 5, 2015 at 11:40 AM.

January 5, 2015, 11:41 AM	#25
TheFineLine Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2012 Location: The Great State of Texas Posts: 210	I edited my post to confirm that the ogive change is only on the 451 bullets, however it is on every different grain of those bullets. They said that they made the change because of feeding interference on higher end 1911s.