Mauser Model 98... - Page 2

Ulrice · February 19, 2008, 01:49 AM

Buddha07 your rifle is a Mod. 98 Carbine. Like garryc said the number 42 does indicate that it was manufactured by Mauser-Werke AG in Obernorf. The number 40 is the year it was manufactured, 1940. This model was the standerd shoulder arm for the German forces during WW2 and with approximately 11.5 million made it is the most common Mod.98 produced. I'm getting my info from the book "Mauser Military Rifles of the World" by Robert W. D. Ball.

Ulrice · February 19, 2008, 01:58 AM

I forgot one thing. If your rifle still has its original barrel that it is chambered in 7.92x57 or 8mm Mauser or 8x57 JS. The JS indicates that the calliber is .323 not .318. Some brands of ammo like igman are labeled 8x57 IS. The difference between JS and IS is in the translation from German. Hope this helps.

Buddha07 · February 19, 2008, 03:21 AM

Thanks, yeah it helps, but like suggested I am going to get a cast of it done just be absolutely safe. It just makes me mad that I told the gunsmith to pour a chamber cast and he didn't because he said not needed. It was my first time dealing with him, and from the places attitude and their hospitality I will not go there again.

Moloch · February 19, 2008, 03:22 AM

''IS'' means ''Infanterie-Spitzgeschoss'' - Infantry spitzer projectile as the earlier 8x57 used a smaller round nosed bullet. The funny thing is that many people still believe the 8x57 is called JS as it actually is the IS. 100 years ago the ''I'' looked very much like our ''J'' today, that caused the confusion.

Buddha07 · February 19, 2008, 04:06 PM

I just spoke with the gunsmith that checked up on my Mauser, and I asked him how did he get to the conclusion that it was a 7mm magnum without pouring a cast? And he said for one that when he looked inside the chamber he could tell it was set up for a magnum(somehow through the parts in there, I am not knowledgeable with guns so I forgot what parts he said). And then he said he shot a few 7mm magnum rounds through it and it shot fine(I did not know this).

And apparently the gun has been re-barreled, they gunsmith from the 70's just kept the original stamps, etc around the bolt and stuff. I didn't know it had been re-barreled until I asked the gunsmith today that if it was. The reason I didn't know this is because when I picked up the gun today he wasn't in so I couldn't speak with him of what he found.

So I guess I will go shooting with it using 7mm Magnums, it was hard to come across concerned with him, because I think he felt like I was testing his profesionalism(sp?), he said he has been a gunsmith for over 40 years, and he even has a few of wildcat guns like mine of his own, so he has knowledge with guns that have been re-barreled. He also said this which led me to believe him, he said that he wouldn't just give back a gun without being a 100% positive of the correct caliber becuase that would be a quick ticket to the courthouse if he didn't....

Thanks for the help/input, suggestions, and giving me some of the history of Mausers...

Darren007 · February 19, 2008, 04:15 PM

Well its good that you found out exactly what caliber the gun is. Dont worry about hurting his feelings. Its better to ask questions than wind up in an emergency room coz you were afraid of stepping on his toes. Have fun shooting!!!

UniversalFrost · February 19, 2008, 04:34 PM

Still get another opinion from someone who would make a cast of the chamber. Just because it is 7mm and has a magnum bolt face means squat like I said before.

better safe than sorry.

**44 AMP** · February 20, 2008, 11:01 PM

And we did it in nearly every caliber you can think of, magnum and non-magnum. I have, or have had 98 Mausers in .22-250, .308 Win, 8mm Mauser (8x57, 7.92mm) and even one in .458 Win Mag.

Setting a Mauser action up for magnum rounds involves machining the bolt face to a larger opening, rebarrelling, and sometimes work on the action rails to aid in feeding. This is pretty much a permanent process, so once converted to magnum rounds, you can't easily (if at all) convert back to a standard (non belted magnum) round like the .30-06.

Your rifle with the Mauser code, 1940 date and the WaA Pruf (Waffen Amt Pruf-Nazi weapons bureau proofmark - the little eagle and swastika) means that your rifle started out life as an 8mm Mauser (called 7.92mm by the Germans). The action date means it was never one of the first German 8mms that used the .318" bore diameter, it had the later .323" diameter. Your gun has been rebarreled, because the fact is, it is real tough to turn an 8mm hole into a 7mm hole in the barrel. It could be done, by boring and relining the barrel, but it would cost more than a new barrel of reasonable quality.

Since your gunsmith says he shot it with 7mm Mag, it should be ok, but just as a check, after you fire the first shot (and expect it will kick pretty strong), note if the bolt opens normally, or if it is stiff and harder to open than usual. Take a close look at the fired case, and compare it to an unfired one. If there is any noticable difference in the shape of the shoulder, or length of the cast body from the base to the shoulder, you have a non-standard chamber, and you need to get some more info, before shooting it much more. Some wildcats based on the 7mm Rem Mag round have a chamber just a little bit longer, allowing factory rounds to be shot, and the cases fire-formed in the chamber, then reloaded with dies that match the custom chamber, so the slightly enlarged case body holds a few more grains of powder, allowing the handloader to increase the velocity a little bit.

Your gun probably has the regular chamber, but there is no guarantee, as a custom rifle like yours could have been made up to anything the orginal owner wanted. And some of us experimented with some odd ball calibers. As long as the cases look about the same as they do before they are fired, they haven't stretched too much to be unsafe, which is what can happen in a grossly oversize chamber. If the cases stretch too much, they will split, and release gas into the action, and even though the Mauser is designed to channel the gas away from the shooter, it is not a pleasant situation, and can damage the rifle, as well as the shooter.

Things will probably be fine, like your gunsmith said, but just in case, go slow until you are sure. Lots and lots of surplus & battlefield pick up Mausers got turned into sporters between the 50s and the 80s when it generally dried up, along with the supply of cheap Mausers, and today, Mausers in original military configuration are worth more (bring more on the market) than all but the very best high quality sporter conversions. Same with 1903 Springfields, Japanese Arisakas, and most of the other WWII era and earlier military rifles. One exception to this is the Soviet Moisin Nagant rifles and carbines, which do not easily sporterize to the level of Mausers, and were imported in huge quantities after the fall of Communism. Prices on these guns are going up as well, but they are still somewhere between inexpensive and cheap.

Let us know how it goes at the range, and good luck! You might want to consider a slip on recoil pad, cause in 7mm Magnum, in a fairly light rifle like yours looks to be, it will kick pretty good!

Ignition Override · February 21, 2008, 01:56 AM

Darren 07:
One of your calibers is 7.62 x 54R. Which surplus ammo would you avoid
(I'm new to anything except the old Savage .22 single-shot...and a new Kahr M-1 carbine which is broken...after 2 months...)?
Is it corrosive? I'm looking at the ammo prices to determine for sure that I'll soon shop for an MN.

Am considering an MN longer series or 44 carbine -IF- the surplus, Russian, Hungarian or Bulgarian ammo is quite dependable and durable, along with such an old rifle.
The d@^^**d brand-new Kahr is the first real gun I've ever bought in my life, therefore, I prefer the best reliability over top accuracy, whether for my anticipated purchase of somebody's MN, then a used Ruger Mini14 in very good shape. A store not too far away has its own range to test their used guns!

But no MN in stock.

To clarify-my only gun was a very old .22 rifle for many years until last October.

The old Mauser Fabrik must be near Heidelberg, GE (is the factory long gone)?

MacGille:

This other trivia may be wrong, but potassium chlorate appears to be part of what our prisons inject into condemned prisoners. If so, watch out for it.

Darren007 · February 21, 2008, 04:00 AM

Ignition Override,

1. Bulgarian, Hungarian surplus ammo is, in my exp, a crap shoot. I've had some that shot fairly decent and other times cracked case necks was a consistent problem. Accuracy ranged from decent to horrid. Russian surplus on the other hand was great, never had any problems with it. All bulgarian and hungarian surplus was corrosive. The older Russian surplus I've tried (1970s and earlier) was also corrosive. I had several boxes of Russian surplus that was headstamped 1997. I heard 50/50 that it was/was'nt corrosive. I cleaned my gun as though it was just to be safe.

A side note on corrosive ammo...People often hear the term and go running for cover

. There is nothing wrong or bad about shooting corrosive ammo. It just takes a few extra steps to clean your gun. First off, there is nothing in corrosive ammo that actually corrodes your barrel. What happens is the barrel, after firing corrosive ammo gets fouled by potassium chloride salts. The "salt" residue attracts moisture. Thats what corrodes your barrel.

The ammonia or windex and water mixture to clean your barrel of corrosive fouling is also misunderstood. You'll often hear people say that the ammonia/windex "neutralizes" the corrosive salts. BS...the ammonia is just there for the same reason that you would use it for on non-corrosive ammo, to clear out copper fouling so you can get at fouling under the copper build up. The water is used to dissolve the salt residue and flush it out of you bore.
You then clean as you normally would and oil. You can also just use plain hot water with some dish detergent mixed in.(hot soapy water

)

Also I'd like to add that the good people at Hoppes swear that their Hoppes #9 will clean out corrosive fouling without the need to use water. Just clean like you would normally with Hoppes#9. However, I dont no anybody who has tried this or is willing to.

But considering that its been around since 1903 when corrosive ammo was the norm they might be telling the truth.

2. Mauser is still around and cranking out $7,000-$10,000 hunting rifles.

Buddha07 · February 23, 2008, 06:23 PM

I went to the range today, and I spent about an hour and a half there. It was really fun; the gun worked very well. It is a very fun gun to shoot, but since it is a 7mm magnum it is very powerful, imo atleast; so my arm is actually a little tender right now. Other than that I was pleased with it; I was worried about the peep sight being off a lot, but suprisingly it wasn't.
Thanks for the help everyone.

Jimro · February 23, 2008, 07:15 PM

I'm glad to here about your successful range trip

Jimro

February 19, 2008, 04:34 PM	#32
UniversalFrost Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,300	Still get another opinion from someone who would make a cast of the chamber. Just because it is 7mm and has a magnum bolt face means squat like I said before. better safe than sorry. __________________ Lifetime member VFW and NRA "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (when all else fails play dead) -Red Green

February 20, 2008, 11:01 PM	#33
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,846	Lots of us used to convert 98 Mausers into sporters And we did it in nearly every caliber you can think of, magnum and non-magnum. I have, or have had 98 Mausers in .22-250, .308 Win, 8mm Mauser (8x57, 7.92mm) and even one in .458 Win Mag. Setting a Mauser action up for magnum rounds involves machining the bolt face to a larger opening, rebarrelling, and sometimes work on the action rails to aid in feeding. This is pretty much a permanent process, so once converted to magnum rounds, you can't easily (if at all) convert back to a standard (non belted magnum) round like the .30-06. Your rifle with the Mauser code, 1940 date and the WaA Pruf (Waffen Amt Pruf-Nazi weapons bureau proofmark - the little eagle and swastika) means that your rifle started out life as an 8mm Mauser (called 7.92mm by the Germans). The action date means it was never one of the first German 8mms that used the .318" bore diameter, it had the later .323" diameter. Your gun has been rebarreled, because the fact is, it is real tough to turn an 8mm hole into a 7mm hole in the barrel. It could be done, by boring and relining the barrel, but it would cost more than a new barrel of reasonable quality. Since your gunsmith says he shot it with 7mm Mag, it should be ok, but just as a check, after you fire the first shot (and expect it will kick pretty strong), note if the bolt opens normally, or if it is stiff and harder to open than usual. Take a close look at the fired case, and compare it to an unfired one. If there is any noticable difference in the shape of the shoulder, or length of the cast body from the base to the shoulder, you have a non-standard chamber, and you need to get some more info, before shooting it much more. Some wildcats based on the 7mm Rem Mag round have a chamber just a little bit longer, allowing factory rounds to be shot, and the cases fire-formed in the chamber, then reloaded with dies that match the custom chamber, so the slightly enlarged case body holds a few more grains of powder, allowing the handloader to increase the velocity a little bit. Your gun probably has the regular chamber, but there is no guarantee, as a custom rifle like yours could have been made up to anything the orginal owner wanted. And some of us experimented with some odd ball calibers. As long as the cases look about the same as they do before they are fired, they haven't stretched too much to be unsafe, which is what can happen in a grossly oversize chamber. If the cases stretch too much, they will split, and release gas into the action, and even though the Mauser is designed to channel the gas away from the shooter, it is not a pleasant situation, and can damage the rifle, as well as the shooter. Things will probably be fine, like your gunsmith said, but just in case, go slow until you are sure. Lots and lots of surplus & battlefield pick up Mausers got turned into sporters between the 50s and the 80s when it generally dried up, along with the supply of cheap Mausers, and today, Mausers in original military configuration are worth more (bring more on the market) than all but the very best high quality sporter conversions. Same with 1903 Springfields, Japanese Arisakas, and most of the other WWII era and earlier military rifles. One exception to this is the Soviet Moisin Nagant rifles and carbines, which do not easily sporterize to the level of Mausers, and were imported in huge quantities after the fall of Communism. Prices on these guns are going up as well, but they are still somewhere between inexpensive and cheap. Let us know how it goes at the range, and good luck! You might want to consider a slip on recoil pad, cause in 7mm Magnum, in a fairly light rifle like yours looks to be, it will kick pretty good! __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

February 21, 2008, 04:00 AM	#35
Darren007 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,053	Ignition Override, 1. Bulgarian, Hungarian surplus ammo is, in my exp, a crap shoot. I've had some that shot fairly decent and other times cracked case necks was a consistent problem. Accuracy ranged from decent to horrid. Russian surplus on the other hand was great, never had any problems with it. All bulgarian and hungarian surplus was corrosive. The older Russian surplus I've tried (1970s and earlier) was also corrosive. I had several boxes of Russian surplus that was headstamped 1997. I heard 50/50 that it was/was'nt corrosive. I cleaned my gun as though it was just to be safe. A side note on corrosive ammo...People often hear the term and go running for cover. There is nothing wrong or bad about shooting corrosive ammo. It just takes a few extra steps to clean your gun. First off, there is nothing in corrosive ammo that actually corrodes your barrel. What happens is the barrel, after firing corrosive ammo gets fouled by potassium chloride salts. The "salt" residue attracts moisture. Thats what corrodes your barrel. The ammonia or windex and water mixture to clean your barrel of corrosive fouling is also misunderstood. You'll often hear people say that the ammonia/windex "neutralizes" the corrosive salts. BS...the ammonia is just there for the same reason that you would use it for on non-corrosive ammo, to clear out copper fouling so you can get at fouling under the copper build up. The water is used to dissolve the salt residue and flush it out of you bore. You then clean as you normally would and oil. You can also just use plain hot water with some dish detergent mixed in.(hot soapy water) Also I'd like to add that the good people at Hoppes swear that their Hoppes #9 will clean out corrosive fouling without the need to use water. Just clean like you would normally with Hoppes#9. However, I dont no anybody who has tried this or is willing to. But considering that its been around since 1903 when corrosive ammo was the norm they might be telling the truth. 2. Mauser is still around and cranking out $7,000-$10,000 hunting rifles.

February 23, 2008, 07:15 PM	#37
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	I'm glad to here about your successful range trip Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

February 19, 2008, 01:49 AM	#26
Ulrice Member Join Date: February 14, 2008 Location: Langley, BC, Canada Posts: 95	Buddha07 your rifle is a Mod. 98 Carbine. Like garryc said the number 42 does indicate that it was manufactured by Mauser-Werke AG in Obernorf. The number 40 is the year it was manufactured, 1940. This model was the standerd shoulder arm for the German forces during WW2 and with approximately 11.5 million made it is the most common Mod.98 produced. I'm getting my info from the book "Mauser Military Rifles of the World" by Robert W. D. Ball.

February 19, 2008, 01:58 AM	#27
Ulrice Member Join Date: February 14, 2008 Location: Langley, BC, Canada Posts: 95	I forgot one thing. If your rifle still has its original barrel that it is chambered in 7.92x57 or 8mm Mauser or 8x57 JS. The JS indicates that the calliber is .323 not .318. Some brands of ammo like igman are labeled 8x57 IS. The difference between JS and IS is in the translation from German. Hope this helps.

February 19, 2008, 03:21 AM	#28
Buddha07 Member Join Date: February 2, 2008 Location: Pensacola, FL Posts: 19	Thanks, yeah it helps, but like suggested I am going to get a cast of it done just be absolutely safe. It just makes me mad that I told the gunsmith to pour a chamber cast and he didn't because he said not needed. It was my first time dealing with him, and from the places attitude and their hospitality I will not go there again.

February 19, 2008, 03:22 AM	#29
Moloch Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2005 Posts: 1,419	''IS'' means ''Infanterie-Spitzgeschoss'' - Infantry spitzer projectile as the earlier 8x57 used a smaller round nosed bullet. The funny thing is that many people still believe the 8x57 is called JS as it actually is the IS. 100 years ago the ''I'' looked very much like our ''J'' today, that caused the confusion.

February 19, 2008, 04:06 PM	#30
Buddha07 Member Join Date: February 2, 2008 Location: Pensacola, FL Posts: 19	I just spoke with the gunsmith that checked up on my Mauser, and I asked him how did he get to the conclusion that it was a 7mm magnum without pouring a cast? And he said for one that when he looked inside the chamber he could tell it was set up for a magnum(somehow through the parts in there, I am not knowledgeable with guns so I forgot what parts he said). And then he said he shot a few 7mm magnum rounds through it and it shot fine(I did not know this). And apparently the gun has been re-barreled, they gunsmith from the 70's just kept the original stamps, etc around the bolt and stuff. I didn't know it had been re-barreled until I asked the gunsmith today that if it was. The reason I didn't know this is because when I picked up the gun today he wasn't in so I couldn't speak with him of what he found. So I guess I will go shooting with it using 7mm Magnums, it was hard to come across concerned with him, because I think he felt like I was testing his profesionalism(sp?), he said he has been a gunsmith for over 40 years, and he even has a few of wildcat guns like mine of his own, so he has knowledge with guns that have been re-barreled. He also said this which led me to believe him, he said that he wouldn't just give back a gun without being a 100% positive of the correct caliber becuase that would be a quick ticket to the courthouse if he didn't.... Thanks for the help/input, suggestions, and giving me some of the history of Mausers...

February 19, 2008, 04:15 PM	#31
Darren007 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,053	Well its good that you found out exactly what caliber the gun is. Dont worry about hurting his feelings. Its better to ask questions than wind up in an emergency room coz you were afraid of stepping on his toes. Have fun shooting!!!

February 21, 2008, 01:56 AM	#34
Ignition Override Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2008 Location: About 20 nm from the Big Muddy Posts: 2,887	Darren 07: One of your calibers is 7.62 x 54R. Which surplus ammo would you avoid (I'm new to anything except the old Savage .22 single-shot...and a new Kahr M-1 carbine which is broken...after 2 months...)? Is it corrosive? I'm looking at the ammo prices to determine for sure that I'll soon shop for an MN. Am considering an MN longer series or 44 carbine -IF- the surplus, Russian, Hungarian or Bulgarian ammo is quite dependable and durable, along with such an old rifle. The d@^^**d brand-new Kahr is the first real gun I've ever bought in my life, therefore, I prefer the best reliability over top accuracy, whether for my anticipated purchase of somebody's MN, then a used Ruger Mini14 in very good shape. A store not too far away has its own range to test their used guns! But no MN in stock. To clarify-my only gun was a very old .22 rifle for many years until last October. The old Mauser Fabrik must be near Heidelberg, GE (is the factory long gone)? MacGille: This other trivia may be wrong, but potassium chlorate appears to be part of what our prisons inject into condemned prisoners. If so, watch out for it.

February 23, 2008, 06:23 PM	#36
Buddha07 Member Join Date: February 2, 2008 Location: Pensacola, FL Posts: 19	I went to the range today, and I spent about an hour and a half there. It was really fun; the gun worked very well. It is a very fun gun to shoot, but since it is a 7mm magnum it is very powerful, imo atleast; so my arm is actually a little tender right now. Other than that I was pleased with it; I was worried about the peep sight being off a lot, but suprisingly it wasn't. Thanks for the help everyone.