Bottom barrel in trap

Agent_Smith · September 6, 2013, 09:11 PM

I've been shooting singles trap with a modified choke in top and bottom barrels of my Beretta Silver Pigeon I. I seem to shoot fine out of the top barrel, but I have a really hard time connecting if I shoot from the bottom barrel.

I don't understand why this would be. Any notions?

-AS

allaroundhunter · September 6, 2013, 09:21 PM

Have you patterned the gun to see how it prints at various ranges with different chokes and different shot?

NoSecondBest · September 6, 2013, 09:23 PM

The only logical reason would be that the barrels don't shoot to the same poi at the distance the birds are being broken at. I've seen shotguns shoot diferently but never a Beretta, Browning, or other high quality shotgun. I'd suspect that you're being pysched out by the fact you're using a different barrel and are subconciously doing something different. This can easily be checked by shooting the gun at a given distance (I'd suggest 25yds) at a patterning board or target and seeing if the barrels are regulated.

Agent_Smith · September 6, 2013, 09:24 PM

I haven't. I definitely should.

But why would, given same box of shells and same choke, the two barrels give different results?

Agent_Smith · September 6, 2013, 09:26 PM

Right. This is an "is it me or the gun" question, I think. I will pattern it and find out which.

Dreaming100Straight · September 7, 2013, 01:57 AM

It is also possible that, even if the barrels are well regulated, that the problem is the chokes, even if both are modified. Pattern each barrel with the identical choke.

Actually, for patterning the barrels it is best to use the tightest choke you have. Then test the medium chokes to see if they are misdirecting your shot.

BigD_in_FL · September 7, 2013, 06:07 AM

All it takes is for one barrel's choke to be ever so slightly off center when they threaded the barrel, let alone not have the barrels in perfect regulation

NoSecondBest · September 7, 2013, 08:32 AM

I've had bad chokes before and sent them back for replacement. However, this problem causes the barrels to be unregulated so the same test applies. If they aren't regulated, switch chokes and try again. Might just need to replace a choke.

MattShlock · September 7, 2013, 10:38 AM

Agent, the world of a double barrel gun, even a shotgun, revolves around the barrels being regulated or properly made to hit the same place. This is not as easy as it might seem at first...

There are two other mental things...

One is the recoil is throwing you off the second, punishing, shot. I'm not allowing physical changes into the issue as that would be too obvious, as in "hey Matt, after I fire my first shot I'm pointed at the clouds and my second shot, when I think I'm back on target, misses -- why?".

Two is just the feel of the shots are playing with your head... The under-barrel has a more direct line of recoil and some serious Trap shooters use single under-barrel shotguns (known by us as unsingles) that have very high ribs. Can you fire the under-barrel first and THEN the upper and see what happens after a few boxes of that?

Dreaming100Straight · September 7, 2013, 12:59 PM

Quote:

One is the recoil is throwing you off the second, punishing, shot. I'm not allowing physical changes into the issue as that would be too obvious, as in "hey Matt, after I fire my first shot I'm pointed at the clouds and my second shot, when I think I'm back on target, misses -- why?".

Isn't he asking about singles? I assumed, but he may not.

MattShlock · September 7, 2013, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Isn't he asking about singles? I assumed, but he may not.

DAY Dreaming100Straight;
Please reread the opening post. Even the title of the thread...

Dreaming100Straight · September 8, 2013, 03:34 AM

I assumed he meant singles because of what the OP posted and the title of his thread, but wondered why you were posted about the recoil of his first shot throwing the OP's second shot off. Looking at it, I guess your reference to doubles wasn't about the OP's singles game, but what could happen when one shot doubles.

Virginian · September 8, 2013, 11:59 AM

Assuming the gun doesn't have a POI issue, have a friend go with you and load the gun and not tell you which barrel is loaded and see if that helps any.

Dreaming100Straight · September 8, 2013, 02:54 PM

Virginian's idea is ++. In the same vein, have a buddy switch the chokes so you don't know which one is being fired. (make sure you mark them somehow so you can tell the two modifieds apart.)

buckhorn_cortez · September 11, 2013, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Assuming the gun doesn't have a POI issue, have a friend go with you and load the gun and not tell you which barrel is loaded and see if that helps any.

On a Beretta over/under you select the barrel that shoots first through a selector switch on the receiver - it's not like it is going to be a surprise as you can look at the switch and see the barrel selected. On my Beretta trap gun, the selector switch is kept permanently in the "bottom barrel first" position by a set screw. In order to enable the switch, and select the top barrel to shoot first, I would have to remove the set screw.

I'm not sure I understand this suggestion if the idea is supposed to be the shooter won't know which barrel shoots first - can you explain it further?

Seems a trip to the pattern board with the chokes should sort out any aiming problem. You also have to understand and see the pattern dispersal - 70:30, 60:40, 50:50 etc. from the horizonal.

zippy13 · September 11, 2013, 06:34 PM

One of your chokes may be the problem. Swap the chokes to see if that makes a difference.

Buckhorn,
My Beretta trap combo has the same set up, but the set screw has it shooting the top barrel first. This is to accommodate the single barrel.

Dreaming100Straight · September 11, 2013, 08:29 PM

True, Buckhorn. If the shooter wants to peek at the tang barrel selector they can defeat the test. For me, it would be difficult with my prescription shooting glasses as it is very difficult for me to read things up close. I don't think anyone is proposing a double blinded scientific study and is it that difficult to remove your set screw.

Similarly, if you swap the chokes it would also be best if the shooter doesn't know which of the two mods are in which barrels. He may be able to look and partially defeat the value of the test (if he can tell the two apart) but why would he?

September 6, 2013, 09:11 PM	#1
Agent_Smith Junior Member Join Date: November 4, 2012 Posts: 7	Bottom barrel in trap I've been shooting singles trap with a modified choke in top and bottom barrels of my Beretta Silver Pigeon I. I seem to shoot fine out of the top barrel, but I have a really hard time connecting if I shoot from the bottom barrel. I don't understand why this would be. Any notions? -AS

September 6, 2013, 09:21 PM	#2
allaroundhunter Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2012 Location: Southeast Texas Posts: 1,670	Bottom barrel in trap Have you patterned the gun to see how it prints at various ranges with different chokes and different shot?

September 6, 2013, 09:23 PM	#3
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	The only logical reason would be that the barrels don't shoot to the same poi at the distance the birds are being broken at. I've seen shotguns shoot diferently but never a Beretta, Browning, or other high quality shotgun. I'd suspect that you're being pysched out by the fact you're using a different barrel and are subconciously doing something different. This can easily be checked by shooting the gun at a given distance (I'd suggest 25yds) at a patterning board or target and seeing if the barrels are regulated.

September 6, 2013, 09:24 PM	#4
Agent_Smith Junior Member Join Date: November 4, 2012 Posts: 7	I haven't. I definitely should. But why would, given same box of shells and same choke, the two barrels give different results?

September 6, 2013, 09:26 PM	#5
Agent_Smith Junior Member Join Date: November 4, 2012 Posts: 7	Right. This is an "is it me or the gun" question, I think. I will pattern it and find out which.

September 7, 2013, 01:57 AM	#6
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	It is also possible that, even if the barrels are well regulated, that the problem is the chokes, even if both are modified. Pattern each barrel with the identical choke. Actually, for patterning the barrels it is best to use the tightest choke you have. Then test the medium chokes to see if they are misdirecting your shot.

September 7, 2013, 06:07 AM	#7
BigD_in_FL Junior member Join Date: December 20, 2012 Location: The "Gunshine State" Posts: 1,981	All it takes is for one barrel's choke to be ever so slightly off center when they threaded the barrel, let alone not have the barrels in perfect regulation

September 7, 2013, 08:32 AM	#8
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	I've had bad chokes before and sent them back for replacement. However, this problem causes the barrels to be unregulated so the same test applies. If they aren't regulated, switch chokes and try again. Might just need to replace a choke.

September 8, 2013, 03:34 AM	#12
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	I assumed he meant singles because of what the OP posted and the title of his thread, but wondered why you were posted about the recoil of his first shot throwing the OP's second shot off. Looking at it, I guess your reference to doubles wasn't about the OP's singles game, but what could happen when one shot doubles.

September 8, 2013, 11:59 AM	#13
Virginian Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2012 Location: Williamsburg, Va. Posts: 1,528	Assuming the gun doesn't have a POI issue, have a friend go with you and load the gun and not tell you which barrel is loaded and see if that helps any.

September 8, 2013, 02:54 PM	#14
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	Virginian's idea is ++. In the same vein, have a buddy switch the chokes so you don't know which one is being fired. (make sure you mark them somehow so you can tell the two modifieds apart.)

September 11, 2013, 06:34 PM	#16
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	One of your chokes may be the problem. Swap the chokes to see if that makes a difference. Buckhorn, My Beretta trap combo has the same set up, but the set screw has it shooting the top barrel first. This is to accommodate the single barrel.

September 11, 2013, 08:29 PM	#17
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	True, Buckhorn. If the shooter wants to peek at the tang barrel selector they can defeat the test. For me, it would be difficult with my prescription shooting glasses as it is very difficult for me to read things up close. I don't think anyone is proposing a double blinded scientific study and is it that difficult to remove your set screw. Similarly, if you swap the chokes it would also be best if the shooter doesn't know which of the two mods are in which barrels. He may be able to look and partially defeat the value of the test (if he can tell the two apart) but why would he?