old fuddy Thinking about a progressive... your thoughts ??? - Page 2

pstrlipscomb · June 8, 2011, 09:28 AM

I had an hour yesterday with nothing to do, and I had just received and cleaned a load of brass. I grabbed a box of bullets, poured brass into the auto case feeder and loaded 150 rounds before my wife could ask me to help with dinner! 200 rds/hr is a good pace for this press, but I ran out of bullets.

I use a Lee Pro 1000 and could never find the time to single-stage load as much as I like to shoot. I use it for. 45 and .40, and will be adding. 38 sp. It takes patience and careful attention, and a light positioned over the final stage helps to ensure a correct powder. Even if you go slow and have to stop now and then, you will far outpace the single-stage. I do use a Lee single for my rifles, and I have used it for pistol, but how excruciating to load 100 rds in three days?!

As far as brand quality, after 11 years I am satisfied with Lee, and according to the current issue of American Handgunner 66% of reloaders "admit" to using Lee equipment.

GWS · June 8, 2011, 11:49 AM

All the Dillons, and the Hornady AP are great presses, but don't discount the RCBS Pro 2000 option, its an excellent press as well. All these presses excel at certain needs and reloading styles, and they all have minor weaknesses that you learn to work around.

I picked the Pro 2000 when I reached the exact same crossroads as you. For me it was the wonderfully fast and safe APS primer system, using preloaded CCI primers, the super tough cast-iron frame, and the really fast and easy caliber change, that swayed me that direction. The more calibers you want to load the better it compares.

If cost is going to be the decider, then a Lee Pro 1000 will do the job just fine, especially if you have one caliber specifically that you want to mass produce. I have a friend with one that loads .45 just fine once he learned to keep it all tight and clean, and learned that the primer system works better dusted with graphite, and that the primer tray works better kept full of primers. Now he wants to load 9mm....since the presses are cheap, and changing calibers is kind of a pain, he's planning to order another press to setup as a 9mm machine.

I load 8 calibers on mine, and the quick changes (including my bullet feeder) gives me no need or desire to add another press.

CherokeeT · June 8, 2011, 12:10 PM

I can only speak for the Dillon 650 with case feeder and powder check die. Great setup, runs like a top; turns out plenty of ammo.

mineralman55 · June 8, 2011, 12:40 PM

+1 on the RCBS 4x4.

Pros: strong, simple, completely manual, easy to change out calibers.

Cons: no longer made, but you can find them on ebay.

The only similar press is the Dillon BL 550 basic loader.

GWS · June 8, 2011, 03:42 PM

Quote:

The only similar press is the Dillon BL 550 basic loader.

What? You didn't know the RCBS Pro 2000 can be had in a manual version for $100 less, and it has 5 stations, not four.

It's the only press where you can have your cake and eat it too. I bought the manual version and the Auto-Advance Kit....because that was the only way I could buy a Auto-Advance version during the Obama Panic.

I started out loading manual....in two days I had to try the auto-advance, intending to retro it back if it was too much too soon. It wasn't...never looked back. BTW try to "upgrade" a Dillon 550 to the 5 station 650, and instead of a $100 kit you spend the big bucks for a whole new press.

Does your 4X4 have the APS primer system? That alone is the biggest advance. After 40 years of tube loading, I flat love it!

Doodlebugger45 · June 8, 2011, 04:07 PM

Quote:

OK... I already load well over 50 different cartridges, have 3 single stage presses, but have yet to make the step down that slippery progressive loader slope...

I can't seem keep up a supply of ammo any more, so been thinking about adding a progressive & using it to load up some of my more heavily used cartridges...

don't want to spend a forutune ( I already have 3 presses ) but also don't want junk, & worry quite a bit about squib loads etc. often associated with high speed cranking out of ammo...

so... if you have one that works well for you, what brand & model, & what cartridges are you loading in it ???

You old coot, don't you know you'll blow your hand off fer shur if you start monkeying around with those complicated gizmos?

Seriously though, you don't really specify what quantity you really want? If you really want to stockpile 5-10,000 rounds in a few days, then for sure you'll want a progressive.

I faced a similar dilemma last year. The single stage was meeting my needs for rifles, but just loading up 200 rounds for 5 different pistol calibers was really getting old for me. I spent several months doing research on what would meet my needs the best. I finally decided that I didn't need a true progressive press at all. The Lee Classic Turret was made for my needs and I'm very happy with it. I figure it cranks out loads about 3 times asa fast as my best efforts on a single stage. The main thing is that I don't have to keep picking up cases and putting them back in the tub for every action.

The Lee turret would work like Seven's excellent suggestion for the Lee 1000 progressive. Put in a brass case, push the lever down, and it's sized and deprimed. Push the little lever on the Safety prime auto feeder and pull up on the big lever and now it's primed. Push the big lever down and it is now flared. If you want to stop there, that's fine, but with the auto powder measure, it could have been charged as well. But it's real easy to just take a quick look at your case to verify that the powder level looks right. Weigh it if you please. All you have to do though is set a bullet on top of the case and push the big lever down one more time and you're done.

The turret press isn't as fast as a real progressive for sure. But it's way faster than a single stage. My handgun loading is typically in the 50-200 rounds per caliber for each reloading session. In 15 minutes I can have 50 brand new rounds done. In an hour I will have 200. And in about 2 minutes I can switch from 480 Ruger to .44 mag or .45 Colt and crank out 100 of them in another 30 minutes.

Like I said, if you need 5000 new rounds each week, then you should stick with a full blown progressive. But if you just want 50-200 every now and then, the Lee turret is the way to go.

dlb435 · June 9, 2011, 09:28 AM

Dillon 550b is a good press but only has four stations. It's a good progressive to start with. Very reliable, easy to use.
I like the Dillon 650 or the RCBS Pro 2000 w/ auto indexing much better. Each are auto indexing and have 5 stations.
The problem with these presses is the cost of caliber conversions. Shell plates and powder funnels get pricey for 50 different calibers.
Forget the RCBS Uniflow powder drop. I use the Dillon powder drop on my RCBS press.

GWS · June 9, 2011, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Forget the RCBS Uniflow powder drop. I use the Dillon powder drop on my RCBS press.

That's a minority opinion. Most of us RCBS users use the Uniflow. I use 2, one with the large drum, one with the small. It works super for me on the 8 calibers I shoot. Dillon makes a conversion kit to make it work for Dillons as well.

jtmo3 · June 9, 2011, 08:46 PM

Seems maybe we've been down a similar path. Been reloading for a while on a single stahe and eventually moved to a turret. Getting to the point where I was spending too much time reloading. I investigated all the options and ended up going with an rcbs pro2000 auto indexing press. It's a great compromise between speed and "quality" ammo. The auto indexing helps with the squib load fear and the rcbs frams allows for looking straight into the case for powder verification before placing the bullet in the case. You can go as fast or slow as you like. And contrary to many feelings, I really like the aps priming. It might not be the fastest progressive on the block, but it's well built, reliable and easy to use and, in your case too, very easy to change calibers and priming setup.

FrankenMauser · June 10, 2011, 12:28 AM

Quote:

That's a minority opinion. Most of us RCBS users use the Uniflow. I use 2, one with the large drum, one with the small. It works super for me on the 8 calibers I shoot. Dillon makes a conversion kit to make it work for Dillons as well.

...Maybe not. My bench has a Uniflow on it, but I wouldn't ever put one on my 550B. The Dillon measures are consistent and smooth with all types of powder, and FAR more consistent with flake powders.

If I used a powder measure on any other press (such as the turret), it would be an adapted Dillon measure (not a Uniflow).

GWS · June 10, 2011, 12:35 AM

Quote:

And contrary to many feelings, I really like the aps priming. It might not be the fastest progressive on the block, but it's well built, reliable and easy to use and, in your case too, very easy to change calibers and priming setup.

jtmo3, the "many feelings" are mostly those who never tried it.

I will admit that after two and a half years with the Pro 2000 I got confortable enough with progressive reloading to become a tad impatient with having to make 2 insertions per stroke. That's the only slower thing about it. So I bought Hornady's pistol bullet feeder when it came out, made a few modifications to it and now it isn't any slower than other presses using only case feeders. In fact, if you count caliber changes to the press and bullet feeder, it beats them all.

Bullet Feeder Mods

Bullet Feeder Mods 2

Bullet Feeder Mods 3

You'll have to try it.

Also I use RCBS Gold Medal Rifle Seater Dies now that load by dropping the bullet into the top of the die. That really speeds up rifle for me while I wait for Hornady to add the Rifle kits to their bullet feeders as promised!

625cnd · June 12, 2011, 08:14 PM

The 550 is the best option, because with some homework a fellow such as OP with many calibers can cut down the # of conversions needed, where only a powder funnel and indicator pins are needed. The 650 is not as flexible. Buy the 45 ACP conversion and loading anything with a similar case head size like 22.250, 243, 6MM, 257, 260, 270, 280, 308, etc. is just a powder funnel change over.

Once past the learning curve a 550 loading pistol rounds 500 rounds an hour is easy. The key thing is having the pick up tubes loaded. And, laying out your supplies. I have done well over 600 rds in an hour with 550, but that was more of test.....

Progressive rifle reloading is a misnomer, beause of the case prep involved.
But, even with prepped cases I can load 400 of 223 an hour using powder measure freindly powder such as TAC.

Lots of fan boys of each brand, but I know for fact Dillon is heads and tails above Big Red (of either variety) in customer service and ease of use.

June 8, 2011, 09:28 AM	#26
pstrlipscomb Member Join Date: March 18, 2011 Posts: 71	I had an hour yesterday with nothing to do, and I had just received and cleaned a load of brass. I grabbed a box of bullets, poured brass into the auto case feeder and loaded 150 rounds before my wife could ask me to help with dinner! 200 rds/hr is a good pace for this press, but I ran out of bullets. I use a Lee Pro 1000 and could never find the time to single-stage load as much as I like to shoot. I use it for. 45 and .40, and will be adding. 38 sp. It takes patience and careful attention, and a light positioned over the final stage helps to ensure a correct powder. Even if you go slow and have to stop now and then, you will far outpace the single-stage. I do use a Lee single for my rifles, and I have used it for pistol, but how excruciating to load 100 rds in three days?! As far as brand quality, after 11 years I am satisfied with Lee, and according to the current issue of American Handgunner 66% of reloaders "admit" to using Lee equipment. __________________ I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh to the Father but by me. - Jesus Christ

June 8, 2011, 11:49 AM	#27
GWS Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2010 Location: New Mexico Posts: 688	All the Dillons, and the Hornady AP are great presses, but don't discount the RCBS Pro 2000 option, its an excellent press as well. All these presses excel at certain needs and reloading styles, and they all have minor weaknesses that you learn to work around. I picked the Pro 2000 when I reached the exact same crossroads as you. For me it was the wonderfully fast and safe APS primer system, using preloaded CCI primers, the super tough cast-iron frame, and the really fast and easy caliber change, that swayed me that direction. The more calibers you want to load the better it compares. If cost is going to be the decider, then a Lee Pro 1000 will do the job just fine, especially if you have one caliber specifically that you want to mass produce. I have a friend with one that loads .45 just fine once he learned to keep it all tight and clean, and learned that the primer system works better dusted with graphite, and that the primer tray works better kept full of primers. Now he wants to load 9mm....since the presses are cheap, and changing calibers is kind of a pain, he's planning to order another press to setup as a 9mm machine. I load 8 calibers on mine, and the quick changes (including my bullet feeder) gives me no need or desire to add another press. Last edited by GWS; June 8, 2011 at 12:23 PM.

June 8, 2011, 12:10 PM	#28
CherokeeT Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2008 Location: Medina, Ohio Posts: 273	I can only speak for the Dillon 650 with case feeder and powder check die. Great setup, runs like a top; turns out plenty of ammo. __________________ God Bless America US Army, NRA Endowment TSRA Life, SASS

June 8, 2011, 12:40 PM	#29
mineralman55 Member Join Date: September 29, 2009 Location: deep south Posts: 99	RCBS 4x4 +1 on the RCBS 4x4. Pros: strong, simple, completely manual, easy to change out calibers. Cons: no longer made, but you can find them on ebay. The only similar press is the Dillon BL 550 basic loader.

June 9, 2011, 09:28 AM	#32
dlb435 Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2009 Posts: 654	Dillon 550b is a good press but only has four stations. It's a good progressive to start with. Very reliable, easy to use. I like the Dillon 650 or the RCBS Pro 2000 w/ auto indexing much better. Each are auto indexing and have 5 stations. The problem with these presses is the cost of caliber conversions. Shell plates and powder funnels get pricey for 50 different calibers. Forget the RCBS Uniflow powder drop. I use the Dillon powder drop on my RCBS press.

June 9, 2011, 08:46 PM	#34
jtmo3 Member Join Date: March 22, 2007 Posts: 47	Seems maybe we've been down a similar path. Been reloading for a while on a single stahe and eventually moved to a turret. Getting to the point where I was spending too much time reloading. I investigated all the options and ended up going with an rcbs pro2000 auto indexing press. It's a great compromise between speed and "quality" ammo. The auto indexing helps with the squib load fear and the rcbs frams allows for looking straight into the case for powder verification before placing the bullet in the case. You can go as fast or slow as you like. And contrary to many feelings, I really like the aps priming. It might not be the fastest progressive on the block, but it's well built, reliable and easy to use and, in your case too, very easy to change calibers and priming setup.

June 12, 2011, 08:14 PM	#37
625cnd Member Join Date: June 9, 2011 Posts: 33	The 550 is the best option, because with some homework a fellow such as OP with many calibers can cut down the # of conversions needed, where only a powder funnel and indicator pins are needed. The 650 is not as flexible. Buy the 45 ACP conversion and loading anything with a similar case head size like 22.250, 243, 6MM, 257, 260, 270, 280, 308, etc. is just a powder funnel change over. Once past the learning curve a 550 loading pistol rounds 500 rounds an hour is easy. The key thing is having the pick up tubes loaded. And, laying out your supplies. I have done well over 600 rds in an hour with 550, but that was more of test..... Progressive rifle reloading is a misnomer, beause of the case prep involved. But, even with prepped cases I can load 400 of 223 an hour using powder measure freindly powder such as TAC. Lots of fan boys of each brand, but I know for fact Dillon is heads and tails above Big Red (of either variety) in customer service and ease of use.