.44 mag (redhawk)

sob (sweet ole bill) · October 2, 2009, 07:08 PM

Am looking for loads that are loadable in .44 cases, but are in the 44+p range. Bullet weights are from 180 Jhp to 240 jhp. Have several old manuals but this info is not among the loads listed.
SOB

GP100man · October 2, 2009, 08:24 PM

bill your not gonna find reduced loads for the bullets ya got for a reason ,they may stik in the barrel .
you can back off a little but some powders don`t like that either( ball type)

for the style of shootin you are wantin i `d switch to a good lead swc at 240 grs. & .430" & look at the cowboy action loads .

DiscoRacing · October 2, 2009, 08:28 PM

i have been using [email protected] grain... with a 200grain lead cast RF bullet.

**Unclenick** · October 2, 2009, 08:57 PM

Bill,

You can reduce to anything a .44 Special will shoot. When you say .44 cases, that's the only kind that will fit in a .44 Magnum. I just don't know which ones you are referring to? .44 Special or .44 Mag? If .44 Special, unless you've got a pile of them, I don't see much point. The COL for .44 Special and .44 Magnum are, for all practical purposes, the same. You don't get a difference in powder space or pressure; just in which ones you can and can't chamber in the shorter .44 Special revolvers.

As to the loads, you will do fine with most pistol and shotgun powders. Unique probably gets used the most for that kind of thing, but I've taken to Hodgdon Universal Clays because it burns so much cleaner. About 7.5 grains with the 240's and about 8.5 grains with the 180 grain what would be a +P .44 Special number if SAAMI had one.

GeauxTide · October 2, 2009, 09:44 PM

My old standby with 240 or 250 lead hard cast is 8.0gr of Unique. Won't be mild, but won't leave you pointing at the sky.

Cult .44 · October 2, 2009, 09:54 PM

If you're loading .44 mag cases and lighter jacketed bullets (180-200 gr) at or a little above published starting charges, they will produce relatively mild-mannered recoil in a heavy revolver.

Al57 · October 3, 2009, 09:14 AM

sob, I have loaded .44 mag cases to .44 spl power levels for years with jacketed and cast bullets. Below are two loads I have loaded, used and deemed safe IN MY GUNS ONLY, but should be fine in any .44 magnum. Both are reasonably mild fired one handed and are accurate. Velocities given are my ballpark findings and will vary in your guns / bbl. lengths.

180 gr. bulk JHP ( Win or Rem ) 9.5 grs Unique 1000 fps 5 1/2 " BBL

200 gr RNFP Cast 7.5 grs Unique 900 fps 5 1/2 " BBL

Gbro · October 3, 2009, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Bill,

You can reduce to anything a .44 Special will shoot. When you say .44 cases, that's the only kind that will fit in a .44 Magnum. I just don't know which ones you are referring to? .44 Special or .44 Mag? If .44 Special, unless you've got a pile of them, I don't see much point. The COL for .44 Special and .44 Magnum are, for all practical purposes, the same. You don't get a difference in powder space or pressure; just in which ones you can and can't chamber in the shorter .44 Special revolvers.

I do not find a 44 Sp COL over 1.500, mostly 1.490's and 44 Mag's 1.590 and up.

There was a rule at a indoor range close by that restricted the power levels, where one could not shoot a 44 mag full house loads. The rules were a 44 Mag had to be loaded to 44 Sp. power levels.
One member got loading data from a local Gun Smith as he had like the OP no printed data.
This reloader used the data and the 4th shot bumped the 1st bullet from the barrel.
The Red hawk was not damaged, but the incident was an eye opener!
So like GP100Man posted,

Quote:

bill your not gonna find reduced loads for the bullets ya got for a reason ,they may stik in the barrel .

troy_mclure · October 4, 2009, 07:06 AM

i thought he was asking for +p or full house loads not reduced loads?

i use 300gr & 180gr bullets in my .44 blackhawk.

on my 180gr(sphp) i use 31gr h4227. its basically explodes on contact.

its my "varmint" round. it usually doesnt penetrate the back of a 5gal jug of water, but it blows a fist sized hole in the front.

theres also verry little drop at 100yd.

WARNING!!! this load is 2gr over max in the hodgdon manual i got it from.

mtnbkr · October 4, 2009, 07:37 AM

SO Bill needs to come back and let us know what he means by "44" and "+p".

Do you mean 44special +P level loads? 44mag +P? The two are very different.

FWIW, I have a redhawk and use 6.7gr of Trail Boss with a 240gr LSWC for an easy shooting 1000fps. You can't use that with a jacketed bullet though.

Chris

Edward429451 · October 4, 2009, 09:32 AM

You need to use lead bullets for light loads. Then you can load them as light as you want. I've loaded 44 mag so light in my RH that there was zero muzzle rise, less recoil than a 22 rf. They was so light that I checked the bore after every shot and never did get a squib thanks to the slippery lead. (7.5")

Depending on how light you want to go, you may want to use a lighter bullet than the 240. I'm not at my data books so can not post the data I used (which wasn't in any book)

**Unclenick** · October 4, 2009, 10:20 AM

Gbro,

What I was referring to are the SAAMI max COLs which limit length for fitting into SAAMI spec. cylinders. The .44 Special SAAMI maximum COL, at 1.615", is actually slightly longer than the .44 Remington Magnum SAAMI maximum COL, which is 1.610". That's why I said, for all practical purposes, they are the same. The .44 RM was developed by Elmer Keith making heavy .44 Special loads in large frame revolvers that could stand the pressure. The longer .44 RM case was only introduced so the commercially produced high pressure loads could not be chambered in a light frame .44 Special by mistake and burst it. They serve no other purpose.

Many folks firing lead from the shorter cases in a gun chambered for the magnum find a ring of fouling builds up that fills the small gap between case lengths and then prevents magnum cases from chambering freely until you clean it out, so I usually avoid the shorter cases in the longer chambers myself, regardless of bullet type. Obviously, if you take a bullet with only one crimp groove or cannelure and use that to locate the crimp, you will end up with a .125" shorter COL using the .125" shorter Special case. There are some dual crimp groove and dual cannelure bullets available that keep the COLs the same. Bill didn't say what his were?

Sounds like your guy with the .44 Special loads got bad load data. If they wouldn't push the bullets out of the Redhawk, they wouldn't push them out of a revolver chambered in .44 Special, either. My premise is that he get good .44 Special load data. The loads I provided should approach 1000 fps at pressures of around 17,000 psi. The others mentioned using Unique are at that level or higher. These pressures are typical for commercial .45 ACP hardball, and are more than adequate for firing jacketed ammunition. They are also significantly higher than commercial jacketed match 185 grain SWC ammunition, which runs at about 10,500 psi, and which fires fine in both pistols and revolvers. So, the recommended loads leave Bill a pretty good margin of safety for running jacketed bullets by using about 17,000 psi and up.

Mtnbkr,

I don't believe there is a SAAMI spec for +P in the .44 Special, and certainly not in the magnum. That said, you can choose to create your own by increasing peak pressure above SAAMI maximum by no more than 10% (above which would be +P+) with any attendant risk being your own to take. Something loaded to 10% above .44 Special pressure will be fine in the magnum revolver because it is still below magnum maximum pressures. The Ruger, specifically, can tolerate being loaded warmer. It also has a cylinder that is 1.75" long, so it will let you seat bullets out beyond SAAMI maximum to that length, creating additional space under the bullet that will require you to use more powder just to reach the same pressure a shorter round has, but will give you more velocity at the same time because it the extra gas evolved will keep the pressure higher between the peak and the muzzle. Again, it takes having a cannelure in the right place to be able to get a good crimp on it. Like you, I'm not clear what Bill is actually asking for here?

October 2, 2009, 07:08 PM	#1
sob (sweet ole bill) Member Join Date: October 13, 2008 Location: coastal North Carolina Posts: 65	.44 mag (redhawk) Am looking for loads that are loadable in .44 cases, but are in the 44+p range. Bullet weights are from 180 Jhp to 240 jhp. Have several old manuals but this info is not among the loads listed. SOB

October 2, 2009, 08:24 PM	#2
GP100man Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2007 Location: Tabor City , NC. Posts: 1,969	down loading the 44 mag bill your not gonna find reduced loads for the bullets ya got for a reason ,they may stik in the barrel . you can back off a little but some powders don`t like that either( ball type) for the style of shootin you are wantin i `d switch to a good lead swc at 240 grs. & .430" & look at the cowboy action loads . __________________ GP100man

October 2, 2009, 08:57 PM	#4
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Bill, You can reduce to anything a .44 Special will shoot. When you say .44 cases, that's the only kind that will fit in a .44 Magnum. I just don't know which ones you are referring to? .44 Special or .44 Mag? If .44 Special, unless you've got a pile of them, I don't see much point. The COL for .44 Special and .44 Magnum are, for all practical purposes, the same. You don't get a difference in powder space or pressure; just in which ones you can and can't chamber in the shorter .44 Special revolvers. As to the loads, you will do fine with most pistol and shotgun powders. Unique probably gets used the most for that kind of thing, but I've taken to Hodgdon Universal Clays because it burns so much cleaner. About 7.5 grains with the 240's and about 8.5 grains with the 180 grain what would be a +P .44 Special number if SAAMI had one. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

October 4, 2009, 07:06 AM	#9
troy_mclure Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: gulf of mexico Posts: 2,716	i thought he was asking for +p or full house loads not reduced loads? i use 300gr & 180gr bullets in my .44 blackhawk. on my 180gr(sphp) i use 31gr h4227. its basically explodes on contact. its my "varmint" round. it usually doesnt penetrate the back of a 5gal jug of water, but it blows a fist sized hole in the front. theres also verry little drop at 100yd. WARNING!!! this load is 2gr over max in the hodgdon manual i got it from. __________________ There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

October 4, 2009, 10:20 AM	#12
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Gbro, What I was referring to are the SAAMI max COLs which limit length for fitting into SAAMI spec. cylinders. The .44 Special SAAMI maximum COL, at 1.615", is actually slightly longer than the .44 Remington Magnum SAAMI maximum COL, which is 1.610". That's why I said, for all practical purposes, they are the same. The .44 RM was developed by Elmer Keith making heavy .44 Special loads in large frame revolvers that could stand the pressure. The longer .44 RM case was only introduced so the commercially produced high pressure loads could not be chambered in a light frame .44 Special by mistake and burst it. They serve no other purpose. Many folks firing lead from the shorter cases in a gun chambered for the magnum find a ring of fouling builds up that fills the small gap between case lengths and then prevents magnum cases from chambering freely until you clean it out, so I usually avoid the shorter cases in the longer chambers myself, regardless of bullet type. Obviously, if you take a bullet with only one crimp groove or cannelure and use that to locate the crimp, you will end up with a .125" shorter COL using the .125" shorter Special case. There are some dual crimp groove and dual cannelure bullets available that keep the COLs the same. Bill didn't say what his were? Sounds like your guy with the .44 Special loads got bad load data. If they wouldn't push the bullets out of the Redhawk, they wouldn't push them out of a revolver chambered in .44 Special, either. My premise is that he get good .44 Special load data. The loads I provided should approach 1000 fps at pressures of around 17,000 psi. The others mentioned using Unique are at that level or higher. These pressures are typical for commercial .45 ACP hardball, and are more than adequate for firing jacketed ammunition. They are also significantly higher than commercial jacketed match 185 grain SWC ammunition, which runs at about 10,500 psi, and which fires fine in both pistols and revolvers. So, the recommended loads leave Bill a pretty good margin of safety for running jacketed bullets by using about 17,000 psi and up. Mtnbkr, I don't believe there is a SAAMI spec for +P in the .44 Special, and certainly not in the magnum. That said, you can choose to create your own by increasing peak pressure above SAAMI maximum by no more than 10% (above which would be +P+) with any attendant risk being your own to take. Something loaded to 10% above .44 Special pressure will be fine in the magnum revolver because it is still below magnum maximum pressures. The Ruger, specifically, can tolerate being loaded warmer. It also has a cylinder that is 1.75" long, so it will let you seat bullets out beyond SAAMI maximum to that length, creating additional space under the bullet that will require you to use more powder just to reach the same pressure a shorter round has, but will give you more velocity at the same time because it the extra gas evolved will keep the pressure higher between the peak and the muzzle. Again, it takes having a cannelure in the right place to be able to get a good crimp on it. Like you, I'm not clear what Bill is actually asking for here? __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle Last edited by Unclenick; October 4, 2009 at 10:39 AM.

October 2, 2009, 08:28 PM	#3
DiscoRacing Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2008 Location: milton, wv Posts: 3,640	i have been using [email protected] grain... with a 200grain lead cast RF bullet.

October 2, 2009, 09:44 PM	#5
GeauxTide Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Helena, AL Posts: 4,424	My old standby with 240 or 250 lead hard cast is 8.0gr of Unique. Won't be mild, but won't leave you pointing at the sky.

October 2, 2009, 09:54 PM	#6
Cult .44 Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2009 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 110	If you're loading .44 mag cases and lighter jacketed bullets (180-200 gr) at or a little above published starting charges, they will produce relatively mild-mannered recoil in a heavy revolver.

October 3, 2009, 09:14 AM	#7
Al57 Member Join Date: December 5, 2006 Location: Nebraska Posts: 69	sob, I have loaded .44 mag cases to .44 spl power levels for years with jacketed and cast bullets. Below are two loads I have loaded, used and deemed safe IN MY GUNS ONLY, but should be fine in any .44 magnum. Both are reasonably mild fired one handed and are accurate. Velocities given are my ballpark findings and will vary in your guns / bbl. lengths. 180 gr. bulk JHP ( Win or Rem ) 9.5 grs Unique 1000 fps 5 1/2 " BBL 200 gr RNFP Cast 7.5 grs Unique 900 fps 5 1/2 " BBL

October 4, 2009, 07:37 AM	#10
mtnbkr Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2000 Location: Manassas, Virginia Posts: 914	SO Bill needs to come back and let us know what he means by "44" and "+p". Do you mean 44special +P level loads? 44mag +P? The two are very different. FWIW, I have a redhawk and use 6.7gr of Trail Boss with a 240gr LSWC for an easy shooting 1000fps. You can't use that with a jacketed bullet though. Chris

October 4, 2009, 09:32 AM	#11
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	You need to use lead bullets for light loads. Then you can load them as light as you want. I've loaded 44 mag so light in my RH that there was zero muzzle rise, less recoil than a 22 rf. They was so light that I checked the bore after every shot and never did get a squib thanks to the slippery lead. (7.5") Depending on how light you want to go, you may want to use a lighter bullet than the 240. I'm not at my data books so can not post the data I used (which wasn't in any book)