38.cal ballistics

dougbull · April 24, 2009, 01:01 PM

Iam trying to find out what does more damage. a 38 hollow point or 38 wadd cutter? A friend told me that the wadcuter goes straight thru. And of course the hollow expands. But what does more damage to a body? Iam asking to know for my conceal gun . Thanks in advance

**Unclenick** · April 24, 2009, 02:05 PM

If you are using commercial loads, you will find wadcutters are loaded down to much lighter charges than standard ammunition. If you load them yourselves and follow the standard method of flush seating with the case mouth, you won't have much case capacity left for powder, so you will still have to load them down to stay at safe pressures. If you seat them out to regular COL, you will get back some powder space, but may find them hard to chamber in some revolvers. If they are hard to chamber you risk pushing the bullet back into the case and seriously raising pressure. It is more difficult to line up a speed loader well enough to work quickly with those blunt bullets in it. Something pointier goes in smoother, especially under pressure.

If you can get around all the above (seating so the bullet stands out far enough without creating chamber interference, in particular) you will find that like any flat nose bullet a wadcutter is an effective hunting bullet. The flat tip causes lateral translation of momentum and creates a temporary cavity much like a smaller caliber hollow point would, but it also creates greater permanent wound channel damage. If you search around the web you will find some images of damage done on game by them. That damage assumes being driven at adequate velocity, however, and not at match load velocities.

kraigwy · April 24, 2009, 02:18 PM

The problem as I see it, regarding HPs. Often they dont expand in 2 in snubbies. You need some velocity. If you get them to expand in those short barrel then you dont get penitration. You get a bullet to penitrate in the summer, when one is wearing light clothing, then come winter they dont penitrate the coat.

Now with WCs. Like mentioned, they are for target shooting. Few are designed to work with heavy charges of powder.

Whats the Answer??? Who knows. Personaly I like SWCs in pistols. I worked as a cop in Anchorage for 20 years. We had lots of moose car accidents where the moose had to be put down. I carried a Model 28 4" 357 with SWCs. They worked great, (I've shoot 8 of them that I can remember). So when I retired and started carrying a little 642 pocket gun, I tried differant bullets in wet and dry phone books, necks of deer I've shot, and damp and dry clay. HPs some times expand some didnt, Penitration wasnt great if they opened up. SWCs seemed to work better for me in my gun. I use the Lyman 358577 150 grn in all my 38/357s now. They seem to get penitration even with my snubby.

JMHO

harry carey · April 29, 2009, 11:30 AM

I have spoken with many surgeons , and nurses who have attended to gunshot patients. the wadcutter even at target velocities is devastating. it yaws and hits three organs it does NOT go straight thru. one nurse refered to the wadcutter as a "three organ bullet" and she carries wadcutters in her M37. as far as velocity take a look at the 1970 Lyman manual 6.8 unique 1295 fps in a M14 6". cast bullet. I load 1.200 oal in 38 and 1.300 oal in 357 guns, with 38 brass. the only reason to load flush is for a S&W 52 or other auto. for hot 38 loads cut 357 brass to 38 spl length as there is more metal at the web in a 357 case.

Russ5924 · April 30, 2009, 03:22 PM

I have had HBWC come apart (split in two pieces) with 3.6G of Titegroup that was with the hollow base to the powder. The do say turn them around for carry. But are you talking about the HBWC or the DEWC

The DEWC can take a lot more and not come apart

SQUAREKNOT · April 30, 2009, 04:43 PM

Weight for weight you can hand load the wad cutters to a higher velocity. JHP's in a snubbie are not reliable in the expansion department.
Think of a 146 or 158 gr 3/8" drill about 14" to 20" long-it leaves a mark!
Always use hard cast bullets, the pure lead HBWC will separate if loaded too
hot. They are for target shooting only, not self defense

tiberius10721 · May 1, 2009, 01:09 AM

just think how well a .454 lead round ball expands when it hits a body!

April 24, 2009, 01:01 PM	#1
dougbull Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2008 Posts: 127	38.cal ballistics Iam trying to find out what does more damage. a 38 hollow point or 38 wadd cutter? A friend told me that the wadcuter goes straight thru. And of course the hollow expands. But what does more damage to a body? Iam asking to know for my conceal gun . Thanks in advance

April 24, 2009, 02:05 PM	#2
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	If you are using commercial loads, you will find wadcutters are loaded down to much lighter charges than standard ammunition. If you load them yourselves and follow the standard method of flush seating with the case mouth, you won't have much case capacity left for powder, so you will still have to load them down to stay at safe pressures. If you seat them out to regular COL, you will get back some powder space, but may find them hard to chamber in some revolvers. If they are hard to chamber you risk pushing the bullet back into the case and seriously raising pressure. It is more difficult to line up a speed loader well enough to work quickly with those blunt bullets in it. Something pointier goes in smoother, especially under pressure. If you can get around all the above (seating so the bullet stands out far enough without creating chamber interference, in particular) you will find that like any flat nose bullet a wadcutter is an effective hunting bullet. The flat tip causes lateral translation of momentum and creates a temporary cavity much like a smaller caliber hollow point would, but it also creates greater permanent wound channel damage. If you search around the web you will find some images of damage done on game by them. That damage assumes being driven at adequate velocity, however, and not at match load velocities. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

April 24, 2009, 02:18 PM	#3
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	The problem as I see it, regarding HPs. Often they dont expand in 2 in snubbies. You need some velocity. If you get them to expand in those short barrel then you dont get penitration. You get a bullet to penitrate in the summer, when one is wearing light clothing, then come winter they dont penitrate the coat. Now with WCs. Like mentioned, they are for target shooting. Few are designed to work with heavy charges of powder. Whats the Answer??? Who knows. Personaly I like SWCs in pistols. I worked as a cop in Anchorage for 20 years. We had lots of moose car accidents where the moose had to be put down. I carried a Model 28 4" 357 with SWCs. They worked great, (I've shoot 8 of them that I can remember). So when I retired and started carrying a little 642 pocket gun, I tried differant bullets in wet and dry phone books, necks of deer I've shot, and damp and dry clay. HPs some times expand some didnt, Penitration wasnt great if they opened up. SWCs seemed to work better for me in my gun. I use the Lyman 358577 150 grn in all my 38/357s now. They seem to get penitration even with my snubby. JMHO __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

April 30, 2009, 03:22 PM	#5
Russ5924 Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2005 Posts: 1,874	I have had HBWC come apart (split in two pieces) with 3.6G of Titegroup that was with the hollow base to the powder. The do say turn them around for carry. But are you talking about the HBWC or the DEWC The DEWC can take a lot more and not come apart __________________ Russ5924

April 29, 2009, 11:30 AM	#4
harry carey Member Join Date: April 25, 2009 Location: georgia Posts: 67	I have spoken with many surgeons , and nurses who have attended to gunshot patients. the wadcutter even at target velocities is devastating. it yaws and hits three organs it does NOT go straight thru. one nurse refered to the wadcutter as a "three organ bullet" and she carries wadcutters in her M37. as far as velocity take a look at the 1970 Lyman manual 6.8 unique 1295 fps in a M14 6". cast bullet. I load 1.200 oal in 38 and 1.300 oal in 357 guns, with 38 brass. the only reason to load flush is for a S&W 52 or other auto. for hot 38 loads cut 357 brass to 38 spl length as there is more metal at the web in a 357 case.

April 30, 2009, 04:43 PM	#6
SQUAREKNOT Senior Member Join Date: July 16, 2008 Posts: 263	Weight for weight you can hand load the wad cutters to a higher velocity. JHP's in a snubbie are not reliable in the expansion department. Think of a 146 or 158 gr 3/8" drill about 14" to 20" long-it leaves a mark! Always use hard cast bullets, the pure lead HBWC will separate if loaded too hot. They are for target shooting only, not self defense

May 1, 2009, 01:09 AM	#7
tiberius10721 Junior member Join Date: December 22, 2008 Posts: 228	just think how well a .454 lead round ball expands when it hits a body!