Knife vs. D cell Mag-lite - Which would you choose?

Glock40 · October 28, 2002, 02:25 PM

Let's say you have two assailants closing the distance to attack you and hurt you real bad. You can't run and you are in reasonable fear for your life. You can pick a 6" fighting knife or a 4D cell Mag-lite. You can't pick both.

Which would you choose and why?

(Let's assume you are trained in both knife fighting and how to use a club)

igor · October 28, 2002, 02:50 PM

Obviously in the particular situation given, I'd take whichever comes to hand quicker.

IRL, though, I'd take the Mag-Lite. I wouldn't prefer edged weapons for self-defense; with a blunt tool there's a wider piece available on the use-of-force scale.

BTW, what is the logic in so many here carrying knives? Is it not important to be able to make a clear distinction between stopping an attack and deliberately killing or maiming the attacker?

C.R.Sam · October 28, 2002, 05:34 PM

Important.
With which does the individual have the best chance of stopping the attack the quickest.

Death of attacker is secondary. Attacker already made the choice.

Sam

kobun · October 28, 2002, 05:38 PM

Igor:
A knife is foremost a tool, and a weapon second.
There are things I need a knife for every day, but I doubt I'd need a BIG flashlight.
If someone ever says something to the extent that only criminals carry knifes, make sure you point out all the positive things a knife can be used for. E.g. opening boxes, cutting rope etc... Daily tasks.

K.

Sylvilagus Aquaticus · October 28, 2002, 05:44 PM

I carry a knife daily. I do not carry a flashlight, a big honking one or otherwise. I see just fine in the dark, thanks. I agree with Sam; he's made his choice. If he has a club and I have a blade, I may end up with a broken arm, but I'll also be the one who leaves the encounter outside of a bag.

Regards to Mas Ayoob, who gave me this.

Regards,
Rabbit.

SRYnidan · October 28, 2002, 10:05 PM

First of all as posed this is a lethal encounter (you are out numbered two to one in a disparity of force) so either could be used with lethal techniquies. The knife the prefered choice
1. Faster / more manuverable with multiple opponents.
2. Something I will have on me all the time (as mentioned)
3. Knive has more options available for stopping the fight without my having to commit my weight / balance to a specific attack line (i have more freedom of movement)
4. Better intimidation value.
5. If I was going to use flashlight as impact weapon I would want either my 4 or 6 cell "C" maglite ( better grip more concentrated impact.

Note: I am a Jujitsu instructor and have trained in both knife and stick.

Cowdogpete · October 29, 2002, 09:11 AM

The mag light is a better defensive weapon. The knife is a better offensive weapon. If two people are coming at me and I beleive that this IS a life threatening situation; as soon as they close distance on me I will be on the offensive.

So I have to go with the knife.

Ideally I'd like both.

jmlv · October 29, 2002, 09:41 AM

24" sword I bought ar thecrenonsance fair a couple of years ago? The man called it a poinard I think. I practice with it on occosion(ok every once in a while I hold it up and say "there can be only one" but who does'nt?) She swings good has a nice but not razor sharp edge. point works well too. if I can't have my 38 or 45 I want my sword! (not to mention the 120lb Saint & 50lb pit.
JMHO

Cowdogpete · October 29, 2002, 12:34 PM

Jmlv,

I'd like to try this one out.

I've had some (key word some ) training in the use of a knife in self defense. I am by no stretch of the imagination a professional. However, I think my knife is better suited for this purpose.

If you will get a piece of PVC pipe that is the length of your sword; I'll get one that is the length of my knife and lets have some training practice.

Thanks.

MLH · October 29, 2002, 01:32 PM

so I could get a clear shot at them!

vulcan · October 29, 2002, 02:49 PM

I would choose the knife because a knife will still cause damage if the strike is badly aimed, where a flashlight will only smart. There is also a physcological advantage with the knife, Drawing blood,even if its not disabling may cause the assailants to break off the attack. The knife is also harder for the attackers to disarm from you. A big enough knife will disarm,dishand, or dishead your attacker, effectively ending it, while a flashlight might.

pbarrick · October 30, 2002, 04:28 PM

I'd pick the MagLite. Knives require closer proximity than impact weapons and the MagLite would allow me to damage from a greater distance.

Not that the fight wouldn't go close or that a knife is useless in such a situation. But engaging with a knife means that I'm in range of their personal tools (fists, knees, elbows, etc.) and I can use the MagLite from a greater distance or close in.

The tool doesn't really matter if you know how it works. A knife can certainly be used to back off or deal with an assailant. So can the MagLite (read: impact weapon). The specific tactics you would use in this situation would differ with what weapon you had available to you. Also, you could lose either one and then you need to have empty-hand skills to rely on.

LASur5r · October 30, 2002, 05:08 PM

Kind of depends on what they are armed with(or unarmed with?)

For keeping them at bay and also at arms reach, I'd pick the flashlight, but since I have small hands and the D cell is a little on the large size giving me not a perfect grip, I'd go with the knife....

Depends on your training, you don't necessarily have to maim or kill with a knife....submission holds, wounds in the right places, can change people's minds quickly. Tends to make them want to be elesewhere.

Was threatened by a bully once at a park. He had about a 12 inch piece of pipe, I had my Cub Scout knife. I placed the dull edge of the blade against his throat and asked him to prepare to meet his Maker...or drop the pipe. This after I feigned submission and got close enough to put the non-cutting edge in the appropriate location....kept the knife hidden against my pant leg.

He chose option #2. See? No maiming or killing.

jmlv · October 31, 2002, 08:29 AM

when it comes to edged weapons I beleave the longer ones [upmto a point of course] have better reach thius are supior to shorter.[in other words a 6' knife vs a 20 inch sword both in the hands of properly equally trained people the sword will win the day. as always training makes a big difference.

Pat Bateman · November 1, 2002, 08:52 PM

As a victim of 'Mag-Lite violence' in recent times (see other 'Mag-Lite' thread), I would choose the knife.

eyeballz · November 2, 2002, 02:00 AM

Maglight! And Swing Really Hard!

Gunter · November 3, 2002, 06:02 PM

Knife. Just came home from a Systema knife class. The knife has its own power and never runs out of ammunition, it is superior in reach to empty hands and may be used to effectively disarm. If there are two guys closing distance they must think they are superior in force and maybe have you cornered. RMA teaches exactly this kind of stuff. All you are interested in is calmly going to the exit. The BGs trying to stop you are just in the way - too bad for them.

ronin308 · November 3, 2002, 09:20 PM

Court issues aside and provided the knife was good quality, I would take the knife. The Maglite is alright but I would much rather be able to bulldog the assailant with a blade.

Ewok_Guy · November 3, 2002, 09:29 PM

Is it dark?

CULLENIII · November 7, 2002, 12:44 PM

This is easy---the knife.

The knife is a designed weapon. The flashlight is an improvised weapon.

Advantages of knife-

easy to hold
deadly
easy to retain
quick to manuver

What happens when a person pulls a knife on a cop? They pull there guns and shoot him, and or pepper spray while being covered with a gun.

wingnutx · November 7, 2002, 04:34 PM

Knife.

An attacker can grab your maglight, which renders it (and the hand holding it) ineffective. Anyone who grabs the protruding end of my Ka-Bar is going to be badly sorry.

If you just nick someone with the maglight, you might cause a bruise. The knife will draw blood, which has a big impact on people. Hell, I've had multiple assailants run away when I started bleeding.

Same goes for probing/stabbing motions. You have to do it a lot harder with the light for it to be effective, and it will almost never be as damaging as with a knife.

A flashlight probably has some legal advantages, though I can easily see a lawyer introducing a big, scary assault-light into evidence.

atlctyslkr · July 11, 2006, 12:42 PM

Knife, probability of inflicting damage on contact with assailant is higher.

Ace On The Line · July 11, 2006, 01:07 PM

This question shouldn't require answering but I will, KNIFE. Anytime, anywhere day or night.

Blammer · July 11, 2006, 01:50 PM

Who SEZ I'm on the DEFENSIVE

I'll take the 6" fighting knife! Preferably in the DARK

= by the time the BG's see the blade, they'll have both been sliced & perforated multiple times

..........By the time they notice the pain & the blood, they're no longer a factor unless I'm peeved enough to STOMP them.

Epyon · July 11, 2006, 02:56 PM

I pick knife, why? I don't have to worry about having to keep it moving, it requires less force to use a knife than it does to use the flashlight. I love my CRKT, I've used it many times carving walking sticks and it's still just as sharp as the day I bought it. Beautiful knife, I love it! If I was being attacked and had no firearm, I'd definately want the knife, because I'd rather be on the offense if an attack is inevitable.

Epyon

P.S: For all you gaming geeks out there, what game am I referring to when I say, "You always run faster with a knife."

October 28, 2002, 02:25 PM	#1
Glock40 Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2002 Posts: 111	Knife vs. D cell Mag-lite - Which would you choose? Let's say you have two assailants closing the distance to attack you and hurt you real bad. You can't run and you are in reasonable fear for your life. You can pick a 6" fighting knife or a 4D cell Mag-lite. You can't pick both. Which would you choose and why? (Let's assume you are trained in both knife fighting and how to use a club)

October 28, 2002, 05:38 PM	#4
kobun Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2002 Location: On top of a big pile of ammo Posts: 148	Igor: A knife is foremost a tool, and a weapon second. There are things I need a knife for every day, but I doubt I'd need a BIG flashlight. If someone ever says something to the extent that only criminals carry knifes, make sure you point out all the positive things a knife can be used for. E.g. opening boxes, cutting rope etc... Daily tasks. K. __________________ "A broken heart heals faster than two broken knee-caps"

October 28, 2002, 05:44 PM	#5
Sylvilagus Aquaticus Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2002 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 120	I carry a knife daily. I do not carry a flashlight, a big honking one or otherwise. I see just fine in the dark, thanks. I agree with Sam; he's made his choice. If he has a club and I have a blade, I may end up with a broken arm, but I'll also be the one who leaves the encounter outside of a bag. Regards to Mas Ayoob, who gave me this. Regards, Rabbit. __________________ "Warning labels thwart the purpose of natural selection".

October 28, 2002, 10:05 PM	#6
SRYnidan Junior Member Join Date: September 10, 2002 Location: LAs Vegas Posts: 13	First of all as posed this is a lethal encounter (you are out numbered two to one in a disparity of force) so either could be used with lethal techniquies. The knife the prefered choice 1. Faster / more manuverable with multiple opponents. 2. Something I will have on me all the time (as mentioned) 3. Knive has more options available for stopping the fight without my having to commit my weight / balance to a specific attack line (i have more freedom of movement) 4. Better intimidation value. 5. If I was going to use flashlight as impact weapon I would want either my 4 or 6 cell "C" maglite ( better grip more concentrated impact. Note: I am a Jujitsu instructor and have trained in both knife and stick. __________________ Tactics Accuracy Power Speed

October 29, 2002, 09:11 AM	#7
Cowdogpete Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2002 Location: Bosque County, TX Posts: 265	The mag light is a better defensive weapon. The knife is a better offensive weapon. If two people are coming at me and I beleive that this IS a life threatening situation; as soon as they close distance on me I will be on the offensive. So I have to go with the knife. Ideally I'd like both. __________________ Smoke on THR I love the smell of cordite in the morning.

October 28, 2002, 02:50 PM	#2
igor Senior Member Join Date: August 27, 2002 Location: Kalifornistan Posts: 155	Obviously in the particular situation given, I'd take whichever comes to hand quicker. IRL, though, I'd take the Mag-Lite. I wouldn't prefer edged weapons for self-defense; with a blunt tool there's a wider piece available on the use-of-force scale. BTW, what is the logic in so many here carrying knives? Is it not important to be able to make a clear distinction between stopping an attack and deliberately killing or maiming the attacker? __________________ Good karateka I have known were intelligent, original, capable, unpredictable, aggressive, brave, and dangerous. Most had a dark side. Daily practice for decades at hurting other people does not make liberals. John Farnam quoting a friend, Feb. 2004

October 28, 2002, 05:34 PM	#3
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Important. With which does the individual have the best chance of stopping the attack the quickest. Death of attacker is secondary. Attacker already made the choice. Sam

October 29, 2002, 09:41 AM	#8
jmlv Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2001 Location: PA AMERICA STARTS HERE! Posts: 739	Why can't I use the 24" sword I bought ar thecrenonsance fair a couple of years ago? The man called it a poinard I think. I practice with it on occosion(ok every once in a while I hold it up and say "there can be only one" but who does'nt?) She swings good has a nice but not razor sharp edge. point works well too. if I can't have my 38 or 45 I want my sword! (not to mention the 120lb Saint & 50lb pit. JMHO __________________ JMLV NEW PA RESIDENT TFL ALUMNUS MOLON LABE!

October 29, 2002, 12:34 PM	#9
Cowdogpete Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2002 Location: Bosque County, TX Posts: 265	Jmlv, I'd like to try this one out. I've had some (key word some ) training in the use of a knife in self defense. I am by no stretch of the imagination a professional. However, I think my knife is better suited for this purpose. If you will get a piece of PVC pipe that is the length of your sword; I'll get one that is the length of my knife and lets have some training practice. Thanks. __________________ Smoke on THR I love the smell of cordite in the morning.

October 29, 2002, 01:32 PM	#10
MLH Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2002 Location: Louisville, Ky. Posts: 165	I would opt for light so I could get a clear shot at them! __________________ Don't ever doubt that I will shoot. Trial by 12 before carry by 6. "There is no distinctly native American criminal class, save congress." Mark Twain

October 29, 2002, 02:49 PM	#11
vulcan Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2002 Posts: 265	cut it! I would choose the knife because a knife will still cause damage if the strike is badly aimed, where a flashlight will only smart. There is also a physcological advantage with the knife, Drawing blood,even if its not disabling may cause the assailants to break off the attack. The knife is also harder for the attackers to disarm from you. A big enough knife will disarm,dishand, or dishead your attacker, effectively ending it, while a flashlight might.

October 30, 2002, 04:28 PM	#12
pbarrick Member Join Date: September 19, 2002 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 72	I'd pick the MagLite. Knives require closer proximity than impact weapons and the MagLite would allow me to damage from a greater distance. Not that the fight wouldn't go close or that a knife is useless in such a situation. But engaging with a knife means that I'm in range of their personal tools (fists, knees, elbows, etc.) and I can use the MagLite from a greater distance or close in. The tool doesn't really matter if you know how it works. A knife can certainly be used to back off or deal with an assailant. So can the MagLite (read: impact weapon). The specific tactics you would use in this situation would differ with what weapon you had available to you. Also, you could lose either one and then you need to have empty-hand skills to rely on. __________________ Paul Barrick Instructor, OPS HQ Options for Personal Security Cutting Edge Training Across the U.S.A. http://www.optionsforpersonalsecurity.com Toll Free 1.877.636.4677

October 30, 2002, 05:08 PM	#13
LASur5r Junior member Join Date: July 20, 2000 Location: pasadena,california,America Posts: 542	Personally? Kind of depends on what they are armed with(or unarmed with?) For keeping them at bay and also at arms reach, I'd pick the flashlight, but since I have small hands and the D cell is a little on the large size giving me not a perfect grip, I'd go with the knife.... Depends on your training, you don't necessarily have to maim or kill with a knife....submission holds, wounds in the right places, can change people's minds quickly. Tends to make them want to be elesewhere. Was threatened by a bully once at a park. He had about a 12 inch piece of pipe, I had my Cub Scout knife. I placed the dull edge of the blade against his throat and asked him to prepare to meet his Maker...or drop the pipe. This after I feigned submission and got close enough to put the non-cutting edge in the appropriate location....kept the knife hidden against my pant leg. He chose option #2. See? No maiming or killing.

October 31, 2002, 08:29 AM	#14
jmlv Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2001 Location: PA AMERICA STARTS HERE! Posts: 739	while I am sure training has a large part to do with it when it comes to edged weapons I beleave the longer ones [upmto a point of course] have better reach thius are supior to shorter.[in other words a 6' knife vs a 20 inch sword both in the hands of properly equally trained people the sword will win the day. as always training makes a big difference. __________________ JMLV NEW PA RESIDENT TFL ALUMNUS MOLON LABE!

November 1, 2002, 08:52 PM	#15
Pat Bateman Member Join Date: August 28, 2002 Posts: 37	As a victim of 'Mag-Lite violence' in recent times (see other 'Mag-Lite' thread), I would choose the knife.

November 2, 2002, 02:00 AM	#16
eyeballz Senior Member Join Date: April 29, 2002 Posts: 320	Maglight! And Swing Really Hard! __________________ WAR EAGLE! EBZ

November 3, 2002, 06:02 PM	#17
Gunter Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2000 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 279	Knife. Just came home from a Systema knife class. The knife has its own power and never runs out of ammunition, it is superior in reach to empty hands and may be used to effectively disarm. If there are two guys closing distance they must think they are superior in force and maybe have you cornered. RMA teaches exactly this kind of stuff. All you are interested in is calmly going to the exit. The BGs trying to stop you are just in the way - too bad for them.

November 3, 2002, 09:20 PM	#18
ronin308 Senior Member Join Date: April 9, 2001 Posts: 1,977	Court issues aside and provided the knife was good quality, I would take the knife. The Maglite is alright but I would much rather be able to bulldog the assailant with a blade. __________________ If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara desert in five years there’d be a shortage of sand. -Milton Friedman

November 3, 2002, 09:29 PM	#19
Ewok_Guy Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2001 Location: Endor Posts: 1,664	Is it dark? __________________ "Death and honor are thought to be the same, but today I have learned that sometimes they are not." --------------------- " I like big fat men like you. When they fall they make more noise! ...and sometimes they never get up." -Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez

November 7, 2002, 12:44 PM	#20
CULLENIII Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Central Florida Posts: 55	This is easy---the knife. The knife is a designed weapon. The flashlight is an improvised weapon. Advantages of knife- easy to hold deadly easy to retain quick to manuver What happens when a person pulls a knife on a cop? They pull there guns and shoot him, and or pepper spray while being covered with a gun. __________________ We deal in lead friend...

November 7, 2002, 04:34 PM	#21
wingnutx Member Join Date: September 7, 2001 Location: Phoenix, Arizona, USA Posts: 93	Knife. An attacker can grab your maglight, which renders it (and the hand holding it) ineffective. Anyone who grabs the protruding end of my Ka-Bar is going to be badly sorry. If you just nick someone with the maglight, you might cause a bruise. The knife will draw blood, which has a big impact on people. Hell, I've had multiple assailants run away when I started bleeding. Same goes for probing/stabbing motions. You have to do it a lot harder with the light for it to be effective, and it will almost never be as damaging as with a knife. A flashlight probably has some legal advantages, though I can easily see a lawyer introducing a big, scary assault-light into evidence. __________________ wingnutx TANSTAAFL If you choose to carry a pistol, you relinquish your ability to defend your honor from common scumbags.-GRD, thefiringline.com

July 11, 2006, 12:42 PM	#22
atlctyslkr Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2006 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 613	Knife, probability of inflicting damage on contact with assailant is higher.

July 11, 2006, 01:07 PM	#23
Ace On The Line Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2006 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 111	This question shouldn't require answering but I will, KNIFE. Anytime, anywhere day or night.

July 11, 2006, 01:50 PM	#24
Blammer Member Join Date: June 13, 2006 Location: The Bearflag Republic Posts: 50	2 Guys moving to do me HARM??? Who SEZ I'm on the DEFENSIVE I'll take the 6" fighting knife! Preferably in the DARK = by the time the BG's see the blade, they'll have both been sliced & perforated multiple times ..........By the time they notice the pain & the blood, they're no longer a factor unless I'm peeved enough to STOMP them. __________________ All my profound stuff I learned from Fr. Frog

July 11, 2006, 02:56 PM	#25
Epyon Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2006 Location: Awesome, Colorado Posts: 700	Easy on this question... I pick knife, why? I don't have to worry about having to keep it moving, it requires less force to use a knife than it does to use the flashlight. I love my CRKT, I've used it many times carving walking sticks and it's still just as sharp as the day I bought it. Beautiful knife, I love it! If I was being attacked and had no firearm, I'd definately want the knife, because I'd rather be on the offense if an attack is inevitable. Epyon P.S: For all you gaming geeks out there, what game am I referring to when I say, "You always run faster with a knife."

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