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November 16, 2012, 12:31 AM | #1 |
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First custom build .223 "sniper" rifle
Ok ive finally decided to pursue my goal in long distance shooting an Id like to build my first rifle as a .223 caliber but I need some input:
Id prefer a stock that is very similar to a AICS/L96/AWP what ever you prefer to call it however I dont want to spend $500+ on a stock so I'm looking at http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/Varmin...s-200-s/67.htm Unless someone can recommend something better I also think Im going to go with the savage over the Rem 700 (even though I am a huge Rem fan) but can someone recommend an exact savage model in .223 that will fit one of those boyd stocks ? From everything Ive read savage has a better barrel (stock 1:9 twist better for heavy grain bullet for distance), trigger and action, but the rem has a better selection of after market parts. Im also told with the savage you can do more DIY stuff on the gun which is what Im looking for. So the plan is to build a .223 to shoot 300 yards max I want to start with a custom stock and decent optic (Im thinking Leupold VX-1 Riflescope 4-12 x 40mm) then add a barrel after I start shooting and confirm that I want to continue this dream The reason for .223 is its cheaper then .308 and it will get me started the ultimate goal <2in MOA at 1000yds with a custom self built 7mm rem mag, 300 win mag or .338 lapua. but id like to first make sure I enjoy shooting for distance Open to all recommendations thank you very much for any and all help |
November 16, 2012, 01:32 AM | #2 |
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I think that except for maybe the newest savages that have the release in the trigger guard, any savage will fit into the boyds stock you just have to get the stock for your specific gun. Primarily there are the two different screw spacings on the short actions. The newer center feeds (magazine will stay in the stock when you unscrew everything) have a 4.4 and the older staggered feed (magazine is attached to the receiver) has a 4.2
Also you may want to look into Richards Microfit Gunstocks. Bunch of laminate (or walnut) stocks with lots of custom options. Might end up paying a little more than the boyds (really not much more) but you might find a shape or some options you like better to make it worth it. |
November 16, 2012, 11:09 AM | #3 |
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Thank you for the stock suggestion I definitively like some of their options would you know of anyone who makes more of a synthetic tactical style like this one
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts...prod41088.aspx but with a price range between 100 and 300? and for a savage? Can anyone comment on if I'm going about this right as I wont be buying this all at once but in pieces 1 = Gun 2 = Optic 3 = Stock 4 = Barrel 5 = Trigger Thank you |
November 16, 2012, 11:28 AM | #4 |
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If you are not concerned about the weight of the rifle.
Choate makes some pretty cool l tactical stocks.I have never had one in my hands. Weighs 5lbs. Probably fits your savage. http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts...208-10110.aspx Last edited by alex0535; November 16, 2012 at 11:37 AM. |
November 16, 2012, 11:39 AM | #5 |
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Nope weight won't be an issue
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November 16, 2012, 01:31 PM | #6 |
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I don't think you're gonna find a chassis system for less than 700 or so, and the prices go up from there. Maybe a used one for a savage? which there aren't as many as the remington. Definitely buy the best optic you can afford.
Your list is actually in the same order as mine. Figured even though it'll look funny I can drop my sporter barreled action into the stock for the heavy barrel and still shoot it until I install the barrel. If you get an accutrigger model you might not even need to get a replacement trigger. You can also look at the bell and carlson medalist, or the hs precision stocks. Aren't a chassis but do have an aluminum bedding block. Stockade gun stocks makes stocks for savages as well that have an aluminum skeleton. |
November 16, 2012, 03:31 PM | #7 | |
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Hope that helps a little, and hope you have as much fun doing this project as I have. |
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November 16, 2012, 03:53 PM | #8 |
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If all you want to do is shoot 300 yards with a .223 just buy yourself a Varmint rifle of your choice, add a good scope and shoot to 300 yards. If your ultimate goal is a 7mm RM start buying the parts to build that. That way you can save the mony for a chassis system you want in the long term.
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November 16, 2012, 04:20 PM | #9 | |
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Yes It would be fun and would help on the next build but a hole lot of money can be saved by getting someting stock and seeing if you really want to move foreward . There is SO much more to shooting long range then the gun . I'm in no way trying to say what you want to do is wrong , cus it's not . Just want to give you other ideas to consider .
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November 16, 2012, 06:51 PM | #10 | |
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I'm probably $500 into this rifle including optics, mounts, and everything else you see and I couldn't be happier with how she's performed. I was out last weekend ringing 10"x10" steel at 600 yards no problem in decent wind shooting a Hornady 68 BTHP handload. The Savage Stevens rifles flat out shoot. |
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November 16, 2012, 08:56 PM | #11 |
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Thank you for all the help so far everyone. honestly I didnt think a 223 could get out to 500 yds holding a 1in MOA or better so perhaps that will be the new target for this gun.
I did go over to gandered mountain today and they had a used Savage Stevens 200 with a BSA "Sweet 223" 6 x 18 x 40mm optic for $299.99 any thoughts? Is this a good deal to start this build? is the optic a POS? The action felt nice on the gun so did the trigger Stevens 200 http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/14603 Sweet 223 scope http://www.midwayusa.com/product/225...-reticle-matte I looked at both rem 700 and Savage M11 while I was there as well (Couldnt test triggers because they all had trigger locks on them) Remington 700 Likes: -The name (Own a rem 597 lr 22 and 870 express both are outstanding) -The Safety design and placement (not a huge deal nor a deal maker) -The vast majority of aftermarket parts Dislikes: -The action felt "gritty" and stiff -The 1:12 twist on stock barrel (Ive read ill need 1:9 to get to desired distance goal) -Less you can do yourself when it comes to customization and tuning Savage Likes: -The action -Stock Barrel twist 1:9 -The ability to do more customization to the gun with out gun smith Dislikes -Not familiar with the company -The lack of aftermarket parts The stocks Im looking at (recommendations)? Also want to mount a bipod not sure boyds or the silhouette will allow that (comments)? http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/VT-SAV...-p/630-219.htm http://www.rifle-stocks.com/silhouette.htm http://www.riflestock.com/store/do/product/SPS/22-06-05 http://www.riflestock.com/store/do/product/VMS/24-06-04 Scopes thoughts: -I want a Mil Dot not sure about the rest Also while I might be able to buy a setup to do what Im looking for... Im a DIY guy I enjoy new projects and learning from them =) why Im starting with the 223 and not a 338 lapua haha Thanks again for the help so far |
November 16, 2012, 09:03 PM | #12 |
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November 16, 2012, 09:10 PM | #13 |
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Ok one other thing apparently I miss understood the definition of MOA
where 1in MOA at 500yds is actually a 5in group so let me rephrase I want to hold 1in group at 300 to 500 yards with 223 (if this is possible at 500yds with 223) with the ultimate goal being a 2in or better group at 1000 yards with a much bigger caliber (7mm, 300 win mag 338 lapua) sorry still learning the terminology (cut me some slack im a computer science major =) ) Thanks again |
November 16, 2012, 09:35 PM | #14 |
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Lots of aftermarket stuff for Savage. If you want a decent scope on a budget check the Bushnell 3200 Elite 10x40 mildot
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November 16, 2012, 09:48 PM | #15 |
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not likely . @ 300 yards 2 shots would have to be touching and the rest would have to be inside the first 2 holes . 3 or 4 inch group at 500yds is great shooting .
Have you ever shot 300+ yards ? It's hard to keep your rifle still because of your heart beat .Your heart beat will make your reticle move 1/2 MOA or more every time it beats . ( ok now fill your puls thats how much your crosshairs are moving )Thats part of the reason you need to control your breathing . You need your heart beat nice and slow . Where you place the rifle on your shoulder can make your heart beat more noticeable .
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November 16, 2012, 09:48 PM | #16 |
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Both the Remington 700 and Savage are exceptional actions, both have an abundance of aftermarket parts, and both will build exceptionally accurate rifles. So you really can't go wrong either way in terms of choosing between those two actions, and if you ask around you'll find plenty of people with nothing but good things to say about both of them.
As far as accurate range of the 223, with heavier bullets the 223 is a quite capable 600 yard rifle as evidenced by the 1000's of shooters that use iron sighted AR's in High-Power Service Rifle Matches. The 1:14 barrel is far too slow a twist to stabilize anything but small, varmint bullets. Optimally a 223 barrel for those distances would be a 1:8 or 1:7 twist to stabilize the heavier bullets, although 1:9 will still do quite well with a variety of loads and many guys who measure their 1:9 twists find that they're actually a little faster. Still, with 1:9 barrels in a variety of rifles I've had good results with the Hornady 68 BTHP, the Sierra 69 MatchKing, and the Hornady 75 BTHP. Each of these have relatively high BC's for the caliber, and will do well to at least 600 yards. The Sierra 69 MatchKing is a favorite for high-power shooters, and has been an exceptionally accurate round out of most everything I've ever shot. Optics and stocks are both really matters of personal choice and intended application. I'd say the best thing to do is handle several different styles of stocks on various rifles before you settle on anything. The nice thing is that aftermarket stocks for both rifles are readily available at all different price points depending on what you want to spend. Scopes too will require some additional research, and will depend largely on your budget. A 223 isn't going to be too awful hard on optics, which means you might be able to get away with some of the more budget priced optics more than on something of a larger caliber. Still, the place where a good optic is really going to shine is in repeatedly returning to zero and maintaining good calibration as you dial up windage and elevation adjustments on the range. The Savage Stevens and BSA optic you mentioned at $299 isn't a bad deal, but it's not necessarily stellar either. $300 is about the going price for a new Stevens 200, and the BSA Sweet 223 is about a $60-70 optic. The BSA Sweet 223 you mentioned will get you out shooting on the range, but it's not anything you'd want to keep long term if distance is going to be your objective. So if it's in good shape and you could sell if for $40-50 then $250-260 for the used rifle is not bad at all. So there are some thoughts for consideration. Hope that helps push you a little further in the research and decision making process. |
November 16, 2012, 09:51 PM | #17 | |
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November 16, 2012, 09:57 PM | #18 |
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Thanks so much SCSOV yea I didnt think that used stevens was a good deal nor did I think the BSA optic was really that good either
alot of people are suggesting the Elite 3200 10x anyone have any thoughts on VX-1 Leupold 4-12 40mm Just curious Also where is a good place to look for used guns in michigan or online Ive looked on gunbroker.com but they have nothing used for a reasonable price Thank you again |
November 16, 2012, 09:59 PM | #19 | |
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November 16, 2012, 10:04 PM | #20 | |
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November 16, 2012, 10:22 PM | #21 |
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Well I want to be better then good haha =) thats why I like long range shooting because its more then just the gun and pulling a trigger, having to calculate everything from wind, spin drift, humidity, elevations, wind direction, all the properties of your ammunition, gun, and the human effect breathing heart rate etc
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November 16, 2012, 10:31 PM | #22 | |
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November 16, 2012, 10:34 PM | #23 |
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Im not saying its not =)
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November 16, 2012, 10:57 PM | #24 | |
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If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . |
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November 17, 2012, 03:27 PM | #25 |
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I don't think there are many rifles that can do a 2 inch group regardless of shooter at 1000. If i'm doing my math right (very possible that I'm not) that'd be a .2 moa rifle correct?
I had a bushnell 10x mildot mil/mil adjustments mounted on my 308 for a while I really liked it. Bushnell actually fixed it when i had problems with it (which surprised me and I've yet to remount it) but I don't think I've heard of anyone else having the issue I did. I think barrett puts the bushnell 10x on their 50 cal packages so that's an endorsement in itself. I personally prefer fixed power scopes but there is nothing wrong with a variable. |
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