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April 17, 2013, 09:05 AM | #51 | |
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April 17, 2013, 09:27 AM | #52 |
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Willfully placing a child under duress, i.e., won't let him out of the car until he answers questions...
Child abuse maybe? This whole situation SHOULD have been over after a 30 second civil conversion. In fact, the Temple officers should have offered words of encouragement to the young working to make Eagle Scout! As it turned out, if no law has been broken, I would expect that lawyers would be lining up to represent the arrested man. When this is over and done, if no law has been broken, these officers need to be FIRED!
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April 17, 2013, 09:41 AM | #53 | |
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April 17, 2013, 11:53 AM | #54 |
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I've read various threads on a handful of forums about this, watched three of the videos posted, and I am left with out any sympathy for Grisham. From what I read, and someone please let me know if I am wrong or misread or misinterpreted, the officers responded to a call about a man carrying a rifle. The caller may not have known what is lawful to do in that state, but that doesn't mean that law enforcement is going to ignore the call to a 911 operator. As I understand it, when the officers arrived, Grisham was asked to put the gun down so the officers could talk to him. When Grisham refused was when the officer drew his own weapon and turned this into a three ring circus.
Maybe Texas doesn't have written into the law that when asked to disarm by a law enforcement officer the armed citizen must, but I believe the officers acted from a position that looked out for their own safety and well being. His rights were not trampled by ignorant officers. He was not arrested for 'legal possession of a firearm'. He was arrested for his own arrogance and refusal to comply. Alaska has comparable laws to Texas. We can openly carry a long gun or hand gun. And while it is not uncommon to see handguns openly holstered, it is not common here in city limits to see people carrying long guns. You will see that when you go fishing or hiking or anywhere a person might enjoy the wilderness. What you will not see, even with all our bears/wolves/porcupines/moose/salmon is someone carrying a long gun in a ready position. It will be slung on their shoulder or back. And when the armed law abiding citizen encounters a police officer or state trooper or fish/wildlife, and they are asked to disarm for the safety of the law enforcement officer, we are obligated to comply.
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April 17, 2013, 12:03 PM | #55 | |
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April 17, 2013, 12:12 PM | #56 | |
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I understand the police needing to respond to a call of a man with a gun. But when the arrived on scene, saw he wasn't doing anything illegal, that should have been the end of it. Instead, they illegally disarmed him, illegally detained his child, and charged him with resisting arrest and "interference" when he was cooperating as far as the law required him to. BTW, I lived in Sitka, and during the first week or two of August (Sitka Blacktail season starts Aug 1) it's very common to see people openly carrying all sorts of weapons, both downtown, and out the road. It's fun watching tourists reaction to a guy walking in the middle of town in Camo, with a bolt action slung over his back, and a .44 Mag on his hip. |
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April 17, 2013, 12:14 PM | #57 |
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The guy is an idiot and caused, INTENTIONALLY, the whole issue. There are so many tell tell signs they weren't out on a Boy Scout hike it's not even funny. They grabbed a camera, grabbed the gun and headed down the road to make a statement. All fine and dandy. But if anyone believes his attitude only started after things went south and the camera came on they'd be a fool.
For the severely ignorant let me tell you what's gonna happen if/when you give an LEO attitude whether you're carrying or not...... You're gonna raise eyebrows, you're gonna inflate the situation, you may get searched, any weapons you may have are gonna be taken, and if you finally straighten up your act you may get em back and turned loose. Don't straighten up your act and your gonna get tossed. Doesn't matter whether you're pulled over for a traffic ticket or for just walkin down the street. You may very well be right in what you are doing but give an LEO crap and then continuing to give the LEO crap is what takes the heat off the LEO and puts all the blame on you. He or anyone like him is a bad example for kids and a blackmark against our military and gun owners a like. |
April 17, 2013, 12:19 PM | #58 | |
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If what you're saying is correct, then I guess the police have the right to infringe on the 1st Amendment also. As an example, calling a cop a "pig" might not be the smartest thing to do, but if they arrested/detained you as a result, that would be illegal. That's the point. Capitulating to Police simply because they're police might save you some immediate problems (going to jail, etc) but you might be giving up your rights just to make your life easier right now. That's why Grisham talked about the "hard right" over the "easy wrong." |
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April 17, 2013, 12:33 PM | #59 | |
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The guy left the house with a chip on his shoulder and got what he deserved. Only a fool with think he did anything but make this a 1000 times worse than it would of been. |
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April 17, 2013, 12:38 PM | #60 | |
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April 17, 2013, 12:42 PM | #61 | |||
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And, again, Texas makes no requirement as to how a longarm be carried - the behavior of Alaskan citizens in Alaska is completely irrelevant - another strawman. |
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April 17, 2013, 12:56 PM | #62 |
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Sometime before his runin with the law, Grisham appeared before the Temple city council with a "gun rights resolution". He asked the council to affirm the resolution. The mayor, a military veteran, said no.
http://watchdogwire.com/texas/2013/0...rate-incident/ |
April 17, 2013, 01:01 PM | #63 | |
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April 17, 2013, 01:05 PM | #64 |
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Lots of people seem to want to hold Grisham up to ridicule. But what he's saying is essentially what the vast majority of members of this board would agree with. It may make some uncomfortable, but it's not irrational, it's not extreme, and there's a foundation for everything he's suggesting in the Constitution.
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April 17, 2013, 01:14 PM | #65 | |
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You go walkin along the highway or in a city park with an AR (or an H&R single for that matter) and the cops are gonna show up. Simply fact of life, this ain't 1850. When they get there you are at some point gonna be told or asked to put the gun down. Put the gun down! Frikin brilliant isn't it. Ya don't say I don't have to, you don't start in on your rights, ya do it. Things get sorted out and probably in short order. If your legal no big deal, if your not you either move to where it is or don't do it. No lawsuit, no hassle, carry on. This guy is about the worst example of a gun rights advocate and more of a danger than any of those pinheads sitting in DC. |
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April 17, 2013, 01:15 PM | #66 |
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I'm not quite sure why people here are arguing against Grisham, I mean, I thought we'd all be on his side here. But also, saying that his attitude or demeanor towards the police for their unlawful actions proves that "he deserved what he got" is comparable, in my mind at least, to saying that a rape victim "was asking for it, because look at how she dressed."
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April 17, 2013, 01:22 PM | #67 | |||
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Last edited by Evan Thomas; April 17, 2013 at 05:09 PM. Reason: removed snark. |
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April 17, 2013, 01:23 PM | #68 | |
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What you're suggesting is exactly the same reason why we have to keep "compromising" on gun control. Gun owners are willing to give a little bit more and more. Grisham wasn't willing to give anymore. We don't know all the facts. From what we can see in the video, he did nothing wrong/illegal. The police were inappropriate and/or illegal. That's all we have to go off of until more information is presented. And given how quickly they were to reduce the charge, I'm guess everything is going to get dropped and brushed under the rug to avoid embarrassment to the department. Let me say again, he (Grisham) could be in the wrong...we just don't know. Based on the video he did nothing wrong, yet the police were willing to ignore his Constitutional rights. Why defend them right now, just because he was willing to stand up for his rights, unlike what you're apparently unwilling to do. |
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April 17, 2013, 01:27 PM | #69 |
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FYI...some here seem to have this bizarre notion that anytime a police officer responds to a call, he's somehow required to arrest the person he encounters. Can someone please explain this presumption to me?
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April 17, 2013, 01:30 PM | #70 |
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How about we wait until more facts (from a credible judicial source) comes out before we state who's wrong and who's right.
We do NOT have enough information to deduce whether Grisham apparently went out with such an intent, or exactly what his reaction was prior to the tape started rolling from what I can tell. I will reserve judgement on both parties until more data has come to light. As it is, I'd say, even if Grisham is guilty of inflaming the situation, that does not give the LEO' and excuse to detain his child and force him to answer questions, which by law, Grisham instructed that they are not allowed to do so without representation of a legal parent or guardian. Right now, the evidence at hand does not favor the Temple LEO's, but like I said before, we need more data before we can say who was truly in the wrong here. Let's keep the personal jabs and emotions to a minimum, lest this thread gets closed. |
April 17, 2013, 01:31 PM | #71 | |
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I'll go one step further, he should of been stopped, questioned, temporarily disarmed, etc. If I see him walkin down the street I may or may not call him in. It would all depend on his demeanor. If I'm and LEO, I'm gonna check him out and I WANT my LEO's to do such. Having the right to do something does not mean that we don't have a right to make sure things are on the up and up. Last edited by Evan Thomas; April 17, 2013 at 05:12 PM. Reason: removed snark. |
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April 17, 2013, 01:34 PM | #72 |
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Having spent my whole adult life dealing with people who in the area I was in, my Dad's Pub, the Clubs I worked in in Liverpool UK. Working in armed Security here in Orlando (my Sons Company) and in teaching people who carried guns on their persons (job related) for over 20 years.
One thing you get to be good at, is assessing individuals state of mind, using body language, and facial expressions. (I did get stabbed twice) so I was not perfect. The Officer who first stopped the rifle carrying Citizen, was frightened. I could not see why. And it went down hill quickly. I am sure there are lots of Police, and Ex Police on this Blog, who would have dealt with this situation with less drama. Starting with "Good afternoon Sir" |
April 17, 2013, 01:35 PM | #73 | ||
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I do believe you tried to say that series of events was OK behavior... Quote:
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April 17, 2013, 01:38 PM | #74 | |
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I would bet a shiny nickel that had Grisham calmly unsnapped the rifle from being slung across his chest and put it down, there would have been no arrest, no story at all.
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April 17, 2013, 01:38 PM | #75 | |
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