The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 6, 2007, 02:50 PM   #1
314EPW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 14, 2007
Posts: 108
Win 296 powder

I'm loading a 454 Casull with Win 296 31.5 gr.I'm using Hornady 250 gr. jhp.In cold weather(below 20 degees)I'm not getting a full burn,little round of gold beaded powder left in barrel,and some in the cylinders.On the bottom of the paper work that came with the Lee 454 dies was a small statement stateing to use mag primers with this powder.No loading manual that i have including Lee, and The new Hornady state this.I figured it at least should be in the Lee manual!!

Anyone use mag primers with this powder in the 454 Casull?
thanks
Ed
314EPW is offline  
Old December 6, 2007, 02:53 PM   #2
Scorch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2006
Location: Washington state
Posts: 15,248
WW296/H-110 is notoriously hard to light off, so most people use magnum primers. I almost always use standard primers, but I hardly ever use WW296 anymore.
__________________
Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs.
But what do I know?
Summit Arms Services
Scorch is offline  
Old December 6, 2007, 03:05 PM   #3
tomh1426
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 17, 2005
Location: Youngtown Arizona
Posts: 1,135
I am having the same problem but in .357 @ 80*
Im using cci 550 magnum primers and theirs still alot of unburnt powder left in the barrel and cyl.
Someone told me to try the lee factory crimp die and i did and its still dirty.
I tried diff bullet weights but not the charge weight, im gunna keep experamenting with this stuff untill its gone.
I just started reloading but I was told by my father to always use a magnum primer with 296.
tomh1426 is offline  
Old December 6, 2007, 04:08 PM   #4
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 41,374
Use magnum primers and increase your crimp strength.

I've used a lot of 296 over the years and I like it very much.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old December 6, 2007, 04:33 PM   #5
314EPW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 14, 2007
Posts: 108
g primers

Did I mis-read or is this infro not in the reloading manuals?
314EPW is offline  
Old December 6, 2007, 04:51 PM   #6
Mal H
Staff
 
Join Date: March 20, 1999
Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia
Posts: 16,939
If a load manual says standard primers only are required for WW296, I would question that load manual. You should always use magnum primers with the possible exception of Winchester Large Pistol primers which are about a standard and a half or only sightly sub-magnum.

The above is for calibers that use pistol primers. However, the 454 Casull is designed to use small rifle primers which are at least equivalent to small pistol magnum primers. Are you using rifle primers?

A Mike said, a good strong crimp is also a must.
Mal H is offline  
Old December 6, 2007, 05:21 PM   #7
tomh1426
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 17, 2005
Location: Youngtown Arizona
Posts: 1,135
Not to hijack this thread but what am i doing wrong then
I used a tight factory crimp magnum primers and my barrel is full of unburnt powder.
tomh1426 is offline  
Old December 6, 2007, 05:32 PM   #8
Mal H
Staff
 
Join Date: March 20, 1999
Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia
Posts: 16,939
tomh1426 - what weight of W296 and bullet weight/type are you using in your .357 Mag loads?
Mal H is offline  
Old December 6, 2007, 05:35 PM   #9
crowbeaner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 4, 2007
Location: Upstate SC
Posts: 1,943
I'm in Mike Irwin's camp on this one. If you read the loading instructions in the WW data booklets it specifically recommends a magnum primer and high bullet pull (heavy crimp) for all 296 loads. 296 is one of the best slow powders for magnum cartridges, and the loading caveats are included in the booklet for good reason. I haven't loaded for a 454 as I no longer have my CCL or handguns, but I loaded thousands of rounds with 296 when I did. Follow the instructions, and it works just fine. I had some unburned powder in my guns also, and that is just one of the quirks of the powder. It certainly burns cleaner than 2400 if loaded correctly. CB.
__________________
If you want your children to follow in your footsteps, be careful where you walk.
Beware the man that only owns one gun; he probably knows how to use it.
I just hope my ship comes in before my dock rots.
crowbeaner is offline  
Old December 6, 2007, 06:36 PM   #10
tomh1426
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 17, 2005
Location: Youngtown Arizona
Posts: 1,135
180 grain nosler silhouettes over 12.9 grains of 296
158 grain nosler hp over 13 grains of 296
158 grain berrys plated hp over 13 grains of 296
I used the lee factory crimp die and cci 550 primers in all of em.
I tried both 158 grain bullets over 6.5 grains of bullseye and it was much much cleaner.
thanks, Tom
tomh1426 is offline  
Old December 6, 2007, 08:38 PM   #11
FM12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 5, 2007
Location: Monroeville, Alabama
Posts: 1,683
Also, when using ww296, use full loads and heavy bullets.

NEVER use 296 in .38 special, squib city!
FM12 is offline  
Old December 6, 2007, 09:13 PM   #12
steelbuster
Member
 
Join Date: December 1, 2000
Location: Indiana
Posts: 66
You are using Winchester 296 powder...Use Winchester Large Pistol Primers... You should use close to Max loads with 296 according to Winchester although I have loaded hundreds @ 5% reduced load without a problem.
I don't know how 'hot' WLP primers are, but I use them for ALL powders from reduced load 231 ect. in .44mag and .357, to reduced and max loads using AA9, H110, and 296 ect. and have NEVER had a misfire in the Thousands of rounds I've fired in competition. What works...works.
__________________
Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please..
steelbuster is offline  
Old December 7, 2007, 12:38 AM   #13
Mal H
Staff
 
Join Date: March 20, 1999
Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia
Posts: 16,939
tomh - all of the loads you listed appear to me to be at least one full grain short of the recommended load for W296 and the bullets you are using. Where did the load specs come from?

Try increasing the powder weight looking for pressure signs and see if the unburned powder problem still exists.

W296 (and H110) are great powders, but they have a personality unlike most others. They work best under pressure, but they need a real kick in the pants to get moving. Otherwise they fizzle out and refuse to complete the job.
Mal H is offline  
Old December 7, 2007, 01:02 AM   #14
tomh1426
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 17, 2005
Location: Youngtown Arizona
Posts: 1,135
I got the 180 grain over 12.9grains from my father and i believe he got it from his sierra book
Those were actually my very first reloads ever.
I got the 158/13 from http://stevespages.com/357_1_158.html
It says 10.2-17 grains so i went with 13.
i just got a few good reloading books so ill be trying diff charge weights.
Ill try reloading some at 14 and some at 15 grains and see what happens.
Thanks, Tom
tomh1426 is offline  
Old December 7, 2007, 09:34 AM   #15
Mal H
Staff
 
Join Date: March 20, 1999
Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia
Posts: 16,939
Ok, going to the possible same source, Sierra suggests a min of 15.9 gr and a max of 17.3. That's a lot more in line with what 296 loads should be with that bullet.

As for Steve Ricciardelli - shame on him! I know he knows better than to download W296 like that. His load for H110 is even worse - 8.6 to 17.7. If you start at that minimum, I can almost guarantee one squib in a few hundred loads.
Mal H is offline  
Old December 7, 2007, 09:36 AM   #16
Mal H
Staff
 
Join Date: March 20, 1999
Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia
Posts: 16,939
314EPW - again, are you using rifle primers in your .454 C loads?
Mal H is offline  
Old December 7, 2007, 03:53 PM   #17
tomh1426
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 17, 2005
Location: Youngtown Arizona
Posts: 1,135
Wow, thanks I had no idea i was that light.
I got like 4-5 books but im not supposed to know about them untill x-mas.
I just got some primers so im gunna skip right up to 16 grains
Thanks again, Tom
tomh1426 is offline  
Old December 7, 2007, 05:37 PM   #18
crowbeaner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 4, 2007
Location: Upstate SC
Posts: 1,943
tomh1426; check the WW data booklet. You can load 14.0 to 14.5 of 296 with lead 150 or 158 bullets in the 357. I have used those loads for years, and have not had a problem. Just follow the booklet. Load exactly as shown. I shot 16.6 of 296 and 158 jacketed in the 357 for years. CB.
__________________
If you want your children to follow in your footsteps, be careful where you walk.
Beware the man that only owns one gun; he probably knows how to use it.
I just hope my ship comes in before my dock rots.
crowbeaner is offline  
Old December 7, 2007, 07:08 PM   #19
tomh1426
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 17, 2005
Location: Youngtown Arizona
Posts: 1,135
I havent reloaded any lead yet but i want to.
I just loaded some 158 grain noslers over 16 grains of 296.
Cant wait to tryem out, thats a full 3 grains more than befor.
Reloading is fun, I shoot twice as much now
tomh1426 is offline  
Old December 7, 2007, 07:20 PM   #20
314EPW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 14, 2007
Posts: 108
small rifle primers

Mal H...yes I am using winchester small rifle primers.I guess I'll switch to CCi 450?
Ed
314EPW is offline  
Old December 7, 2007, 07:40 PM   #21
Mal H
Staff
 
Join Date: March 20, 1999
Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia
Posts: 16,939
You can give them a try, but CCI 400's should be sufficient to fire off W296. All of the talk about using magnum primers, including mine, was for W296 when used in calibers other than .454 Casull, e.g., .44 Mag, .357 Mag, .45 Colt, etc. As you know, those calibers use pistol primers, not rifle primers.

Maybe it is the cold weather that's causing the problem.
Mal H is offline  
Old December 8, 2007, 12:18 AM   #22
Phil_A
Member
 
Join Date: October 21, 2007
Posts: 18
The only time I ever stuck a bullet in a barrel was with a full load of H110 behind a 158 grain bullet in a .357. Setting off a standard primer resulted in slightly burnt powder jammed into the forcing cone. Burns a "lot" better with magnum primers. - Phil
Phil_A is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.05733 seconds with 8 queries