Why do we reload?

[gbrading1974]

[gbrading1974]

If newbie reloaders didn't post newbie questions in the Reloading forums, what would we talk about? How many guns we have? It usually takes me a month or more, plus a mess of twelve hour days and a few seven day work weeks, to save for a new firearm, and the same was true for my reloading equipment. So yes I reload to save money, AND shoot more.

[WESHOOT2]

It's the only place my wife can't clean.

I actually manufacture, and only 'reload' for myself (okay, and maybe a few buds).
I started to save money.
Now things are completely out of control.

I like questions; they bring answers. Then maybe I learn something.

"Cheap", however, burns my ass. Pay .000007% more and support your local shop. Buying ammo from Wallllllllyworld is like mailing money to Schumer.

Just my weenie little thoughts.

[Poodleshooter]

Okay, so what is reloading all about?

Why do I ask? Because once again I have noticed all kinds of messages being posted by people looking for short-cuts and "cheap" supplies.

What's wrong with saving money?

Reloading is NOT about either.

Sure it is. If I can save money and create good loads using cut up mylar bags as a substitute for relatively expensive mylar sheets in my heavy magnum shotgun loads, I'm very pleased with my own ingenuity. I cast my own bullets because I'm cheap too!

The basic premises behind manufacturing your own ammunitions are:
#1) It is a hobby, something you enjoy during your off time;
#2) It allows you to custom match your ammunition to each firearm, obtaining the highest level of accuracy possible;
#3) It allows you to expieriment with components not available from factory ammunition manufacturers;
#4) It allows you to tailor your ammunition for a specific purpose.

All true.

If you are reloading to save money, you are way off base! The cost of reloading equipment and supplies will more than supply the average shooter with factory ammunition for a lifetime!

Not really. Not everyone has a Dillon or Ponsness Warren press or an expensive setup. I use a balance beam and a single stage Lee that my dad gave me. For shotguns I reload using a Lee Load-All that cost me $35. I've already "paid" for it with my savings on shotgun shells. My ammo is about equal to the best factory ammo in my guns, but I haven't yet exceeded it's quality.

So let's quit with the, "Where can I get the lowest prices on primers (or any other component)?" type questions. Buy your supplies from your locally owned private dealer. Sure he may charge $1 a thousand more than the "cheapest" place around, but the conversation, instruction and friendship is well worth it!

At a local gunshop, I recently saw a 1# can of Alliant 2400 for $24. Primers usually run about $18 per k. I can buy them (from the same guy the gunshop owner buys from) for about $14 per k. If he charged $1 more I would buy from him more often. As it is, I do buy from locals occasionaly, but only when the price warrants my business. Mostly, I buy at shows, where i buy bulk quantities of "Remchester" generic bullets, and locally cast bullets for my handguns. The dealers are regional, if not local.

Also, how about quit the, "Duh, what load works good in your gun?" type questions. Each firearm is an individual! I have 3 .22-250 rifles, consecutive serial numbers, and they each have their own special load! So what Joe Blow uses will not, most likely, be the best for your firearm! Experiment, test, and enjoy!

One last item is the "Where can I find..." type question. Geesh...you have a computer...search for it the same as we all do! Recently in one of the forums someone asked where they coud find a particular item. Well, I did a quick Yahoo search and came up with over 150 good links! Was it too difficult for that user to do the same?

Why duplicate the work that others have already done? If so, we shouldn't frequent chat boards. I come here specifically to glean experience and wisdom from older members, and contribute when I can.


[/QUOTE]

[griz]

It's the only place my wife can't clean.

I should tell you about the time my (ex) wife decided my shotgun shells were inefficiently stored because several boxes were only half full. She dumped them all into a big bag and threw away the boxes. She explained that was better because that way they took up less room.
In retrospect, I don’t think that was a male / female thing as much as a shooter / non-shooter thing. Oh well, live and learn.

[weagle]

I just got back into reloading due to the fact that I purchased a remington 660 in 350 magnum. Factory ammo is hard to find and expensive( 32.50 + shipping from old western scrounger). I bought a Lee Aniversary kit and various other accessories for under a $100.00 and a 8 boxs of various 35 caliber bullets off of e bay for 30 bucks and I'm all set. Of course after getting readdicted I'm also now reloading for my 7mm08 and 30.06. Good Shooting, Weagle

[J.T.King]

You know, I have spent years and years on all kinds of mailing lists, newsgroups and web-boards. EVERY time a user posts a thread that denigrates other users of the board, I wonder why he is even here.

An online community is what it makes itself. If everyone on the handloading board wants to ask each other where to get the cheapest primers, then guess what! That's what the board is for!

If everyone on this board wants to ask what kinds of loads you use in YOUR guns, guess what! That's what the board is for!

If everyone wants to ask why everyone else is a moron asking for cheap supplies and irrelevant loads, guess what! ....

We decide what kind of board we have. I, for one, would rather it not be that last kind of board.

sricciardelli,
Although his reaction may have been more personal than appropriate, if you don't understand why slickpuppy took offense to your (mis)use of this board, then IMnsHO you need to reevaluate your posts. Your questions as to why people reload and your desire to pitch support for your local dealer are all admirable, but your implicit attacks on the beginners and internet illiterate were completely inappropriate.

Sincerely,

JT

as usual, IMHO, FWIW, YMMV, and all that...


PS: I like your pages!

[Marshal]

Hear, hear J.T. King. My wife and I started reloading becasue it saves us lots of money. We've paid for our press and various accoutrements in less than a year in savings. We enjoy the friends we've met and the discussions about bullets, powders, etc.

If this board were relegated for the use of experienced experts only, it would be a great disservice to those who are new to the sport. I came here to learn from those who have learned before me, and I have.

[C.R.Sam]

One of the things I learned from a wife was that suck through the bag type (Electrolux etc) vacuum cleaners clean up spilled primers quietly. Dirt through the turbine type (Hoover, Orec etc) get rather interesting when suckin up live primers.

Sam....if it can be broken, I have.

[Nanaimo Barr]

well, we shoot CAS, so the $155.00 investiment saved us $200 the first month...

[Bob243]

Why I reload;

There is nothing more satisfying then taking a rifle (Rem700VS) in a 223that shoots .500" groups@ 100 yards with factory ammo(fed premium &sub moa with AE 55g fmj )working up some loads and getting less than .100" groups after playing around with different loads $$ is the last thing I was thinking about when creating this reload, when buying Lapua brass, I save about $2.00 per box of 20 from buying fed premium ammo. Also when all said and done with case prep and all, after the 2nd use of the brass I spend about $5.00 a box of 20 to reload and get groups less than .100"

If you are happy with sub moa with your rifle and don't have time to reload, then you are not any better or worse than some one who reloads and insists on groups less than a tenth of an inch, because its about what makes you happy, not about saving$$$$


On the other hand If you are shooting something like a 300 Ultra or a 338 or something like that where you are spending $35 + a box of 20, then it is in your best interest to reload because since we should all agree that if you buy a new firearm you should practice with it, i usually shoot about $2 boxes per practice session with my VS, I also shoot SR High Power, and shoot about 100 rounds out of my AR15 for practice, I shoot cheap factory loads, and occasionally crank out some from the Progressive if I get a good deal on components. This kind of shooting out of a 300Ultra would make almost anyone go broke buying factory ammo

What suits YOU best, may not be practicle for the person next to you at the range.

BTW... This is not a flame to anyone, I was just giving my opinion...

[sricciardelli]

Okay, let's say that Joe Newshooter buys his first gun and wants to reload for it. The hardware will cost as follows:
RCBS Rock Chucker Master Reloading Kit $250
Powder Trickler 10
1 set of dies 29
Shell holder 4
case tumbler 48
p-rimer pocket cleaner 6
caliper 30
total for a very BASIC set-up $377
(And this is a VERY BASIC set-up, the actual cost will end up being twice that!)

Let's say he bought a .22-250 and is using the same components I use:
Brass: Remington $18 per 100, 18 cents per load
Primer: Remington 9-1/2 17 per thousand, 2 cents per load
Powder: 38.4 grains of H-380 17 per pound, 10 cents per load
Bullet: Sierra 52 grain HPBT 10 per hundred, 10 cents per load
That comes to 40 cents per round to reload, or $8 per box.
Winchester factory is $9 per box...he could have bought 49 boxes of factory for the same amount of money, and could then sell his once fired brass for 9 cents each!
So he would have gotten $88 back, actually shooting as many rounds for $88 less than what it cost him to reload the same number!

Or, if he decided to keep his brass and continue reloading it, then the cost would be 22 cents per round or $4.40 per box.
He would have to load 86 more boxes to break even! That's a total of 135 boxes of ammo to finally break even on his initial expendature.
(Now, these costs do not reflect any spilled, lost or ruined items, nor do they reflect shipping and HazMat charges.)

Okay, let's pick a larger caliber. How about 6mm Remington?
Brass: Remington $17 per 100, 17 cents per load
Primer: Remington 9-1/2 17 per thousand, 2 cents per load
Powder: 43.2 grains of IMR-4350 19 per pound, 12 cents per load
Bullet: Sierra 85 grain HPBT 12 per hundred 12 cents per load
That comes to 43 cents per round to reload or almost $9 per box. Factory is available for $11 per box.

Still wanna go bigger? How about .25-06 Remington?
Case: Remington $22 per 100, 22 cents per load
Primer: Winchester WLR 17 per thousand, 2 cents per load
Powder: 52.5 grains of H-4831 19 per pound, 15 cents per load
Bullet: Sierra 120 grain HPBT 14 per hundred, 14 cents per load
And now we have the cost at 53 cents per round or $11 per box. Factory is available for $12 per box.

Okay...now you wanna us premium bullets? Fine!
Case: Remington $22 per 100, 22 cents per load
Primer: Winchester WLR 17 per thousand, 2 cents per load
Powder: 53.3 grains of H-4831 19 per pound, 15 cents per load
Bullet: Nosler 120 grain Partition 36 per hundred 36 cents per load
Wow...75 cents per round! Or $15 per box. Factory is available for $17 per box (and now is the time to remind you of the $377 spent for equipment!)

So, you wanna shoot a magnum? How about 7mm Remington?
Case: Remington $26 per 100, 26 cents per load
Primer: CCI-200 17 per thousand, 2 cents per load
Powder: 64.6 grains of RL-22 18 per pound, 17 cents per load
Bullet: Sierra 168 grain HPBT 17 per hundred, 17 cents per load
That's 62 cents per round, or $13 per box. Factory? $16 per box.

Sure, these numbers show that it is cheaper to reload, if you don't take into consideration the
initial cost of the equipment, shipping and handling charges, HazMat charges and the time
expended. What? Time is not worth anything? Then why the hell are there so many people
looking for the "best" load because they don't wanna spend the time to properly work-up a
load for their firearm?

Once again, let me say that I am NOT a typical shooter. I have around 100 firearms I reload for.
I do save money by reloading! But that is not the reason I reload!!

[Quartus]

Are you telling me that the average shooter uses 121 boxes of .308i

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

One of the gems of wisdom I learned from my Dad is this: "Don't judge others by yourself."

Some people shoot that much in half that time.

If you don't shoot that much, fine. If you have to have $800 bucks invested before you can reload, fine.

That doesn't mean that either one is true of anyone else. And it is stupid arrogance to insist that your experience is everyone's.

Obviously, your religion is that reloading doesn't pay for itself. The fact that many, for years, have found otherwise will not convince you - you are only interested in your own 'facts'.

Which, in my mind, calls into question the validity of anything you have to say.


If you don't like reloading questions, don't read them.

[weagle]

sricciardelli, I very much enjoyed your web site and it is now marked as one of my favorites. It is obvious from your site and you posting here that you are very detail oriented and probably only buy the very best of equipment and materials.

I do have a basic disagreement with you regarding the expense associated with becoming a reloader. I have an entire reloading setup from Lee, and including press, dies, powder, brass and bullets etc. I have spent less than $200 bucks. The setup works great and reloads my 350 mag, 7mm08, and 30.06 perfect.

My first reloading experience was 20 years ago with a 12 dollar lee handloader and .243 winchester. If you can walk and chew gum you can make excellent handloads with the lee handloader.

I think a lot of serious handloaders look down their nose at the lee equipment, but I think that Richard Lee is a genius and has made precision reloading simple and economical. I shoot hundreds not thousands of rounds a year, but at $35 plus per 20 for the 350 mag, the reloading equipment will pay for itself in less than a year. Also I don't have to worry about being able to locate factory rounds.

I really enjoy reloading and while the physics involved in the ballistic performance of reloaded rounds is very complex, the practical application of reloading bullets is easier to learn than how to make good gravy.

Good shooting, Weagle

[J.T.King]

And what about pistol cartriges? I shoot 45acp. My dad and I split halvesies on all of our equipment, $300 each. To reload the 2000rounds that I reloaded the last time I went to my dad's for the weekend, I spent:

* $20 on powder (bullseye)
* $142 on bullets (remmington)
* $22 on primers (CCI)
* $... uh, I didnt spend anything on cases...

But lets pretend that I had bought some nice +P nickle brass for $229. Lets further pretend that I actually pick up my brass, and lets further pretend that I never get brass from other people too lazy to pick it up. Finally, lets pretend that I reload my brass a VERY conservative 7 times on average.

Lets see... that amortizes out to about $33 for brass...

So, all total my costs for this last 2000 rounds I loaded was $184, $214 if I count in the amortized costs of my new cases.

Ok then, basic math gives me... 50rnd boxes = 40 boxes... 40 boxes at my local range's reload prices are $12@ = $480... as compared to $4.60 a box cash-out-of-my-pocket, or $5.43 with brass... That must mean...

HOLY COW! I just SAVED nearly THREE HUNDRED DOLLARS!!!!!!!!!!

OH MY GOD!

My ammo for the last six months just BOUGHT my half of a nice progressive reloading setup. I guess I have to admit that basic math again results in a complete payoff of my reloading equipment in a single year!

"AMAZING BUT TRUE!"

Whew...

For a second, sricciardelli, you had me convinced reloading was COSTING me money!

As was so eloquently put before....

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

Im glad you get your kicks by seeing how many responses you can generate, but, in my opinion, you are NOT relevant on this board. As I said before:

Your post, sir, was a TROLL.

Again, only my opinion.

JT

as usual, IMHO only, FWIW, YMMV, and all that...

PS. I *still* like your web site!

[Hal]

I can't find real silver bullets for vampire slaying on the shelf at Wally World, in anything other than .38 special. I much prefer using a .44, so I have to handload

Oh, oh how 'bout this. K-Mart quit selling ammo, so I have to reload?

[sricciardelli]

Silver bullet? Evidently you have never really tried casting a silver bullet!

[Hal]

Yes, I actually did cast a silver bullet once.. It wasn't any great shakes. I used a solid-ox torch and a stainless steel soup spoon for the "ladel", then dumped the silver into the brass mold from my Colt .36 cal BP Pocket Police. I have it laying around somewhere.

[Peter M. Eick]

I reload for the interest in the raw science of trying to find the "perfect" load. For example, even though I have 3 different H&K P7PSP's, each one seems to like a slightly different load and combination. What fun it was to figure this out, it really interests the scientist in me.

On the other hand, I recently figured out I average about 1000 rnds fired per month of pistol and about 200 per month rifle over the last 2 years (it was suprisingly consistent). Quick math says 1000 rnds is 20 boxes of 50 rnds or with an average price of $10/50 rnds that is about $200/month for pistol. 200 rifle is 10 boxes of 20 rnds or at about $15/box of rifle ammo about $150/month for rifle.

Therefore I shoot about $350 of ammo a month or more pragmatically the eqivolent of an EAA witness worth a month.

This is why I reload.