? about first deer rifle

jonb1 · January 30, 2006, 08:16 AM

I'm looking to buy my first nice deer rifle. I'll be hunting in southern MO for deer and maybe going out west someday for elk. I've shot a hundred 30-06s and they shoot fine, but I can't ignore the ballistics of the 300wsm. There has got to be a reason that everybody is still buying the 30-06, but I don't know what it is. If it is just tradition I'll be going with the 300wsm. some help please

mrawesome22 · January 30, 2006, 08:44 AM

The 06 is around for a reason alright. It has a tradition of accuracy, and versatility. Weather it's deer, antelope, elk, bear, you name it, the 06 will usually do the trick. Being the caliber that haulted Hitler doesn't hurt either. And you would be hard pressed to find a ammunition selling store that wasn't well stocked on 06 ammo in many different choices. The .300 WSSM is also a great caliber, but is still an infant to this legendary round.

joshua · January 30, 2006, 09:01 AM

If it's between the 30-06 and the 300 WSM I'll take the WSM. If you live in an area where there are Walmarts and specialty sportsman/outdoors stores the WSM supply is plenty. Now if you are in places such as Fairbanks AK then the O6 will be a better choice. josh

urbanassault · January 30, 2006, 10:04 AM

What do you think about a 7mm or a 270?

FirstFreedom · January 30, 2006, 10:39 AM

which 7mm? 7x57 mauser, 7mm-08, 7mm remmag, 280 remington (aka 7mm remington express).

The .300 WSM is a poor choice for a deer rifle, and an *especially* poor choice for a first deer rifle, IMO. It's way overkill, unless you've been practicing for years and know how to hit on a 400-500 yard shot, and will be hunting in open plains. But that is not the case by definition, since it is a *first* deer rifle. The .30-'06 would certainly be a better choice than the .300 WSM, but it's far from being the best choice, IMO. But for starters, here's the advantages of .30-06 over .300 WSM, keeping in mind they are both too much for deer:

-Far, far more abundant ammo in stores far and near.
-Many more factory ammo selections
-Less ammo expense
-Damages less meat than the .300 WSM
-No danger of going obsolete
-More rifle makers/choices to pick from
-Less recoil & muzzle blast (this is very important, because the easier it is on you, the more you will practice and enjoy practicing with it).

Having said that, there are much better choices than the .30-06 for a dedicated deer rifle. Now if you were planning to hunt elk & caribou as well with it, then I would run with something a little bigger like the.270 win, .30-06 or maybe .300 winmag (bigger, badder, better than the WSM, and also won't be going obsolete).

But the best dedicated deer gun calibers for brushy areas are .44 mag or .444 marlin / .45-70 gov't with light loads; something like that, maybe even .357 mag. The best all-around calibers for some timber with some open areas too would be .30-30 win, .35 remington, or maybe 7.62x39mm. The best dedicated deer gun calibers for mostly open areas are .243, .260 rem, .257 roberts, .250-3000 savage, 7mm-08, in that general range. There's nothing wrong with going bigger like the .270 win, .280 rem, or .30-06, but you have to ask yourself why do you want to put up with the recoil abuse and high cost of the ammo when there's absolutely nothing to be gained when it comes to shooting thin-skinned animals. They won't get any deader than a .260 rem will easily make them; the only thing you'll 'gain' is actually a loss, and that is lost meat through more bloodshot meat damage.

dmented692006 · January 30, 2006, 11:06 AM

i was trying to decide between a 30-06 and a 7mm wsm and i picked the 30-06 because the ammo is cheap and u can get it anywhere, even africa, but if u want something with more power id recommend the 7mm wsm.

ranger dave · January 30, 2006, 11:18 AM

The 30/06 Is Enough Gun For North American Game A Deer Gives Does Not Care About A Few Fps Got To The Range And Shoot 200 Rounds A Week Till Opening Day And You Will See The Knock Down When You Put One In The Pump Station

urbanassault · January 30, 2006, 11:29 AM

I liked the 7mm (savage) but it had alot of kick compared to the the 270 (winchester) is the 270 overkill? (MN, whitetail)

Fremmer · January 30, 2006, 11:31 AM

Quote:

I've shot a hundred 30-06s and they shoot fine, but I can't ignore the ballistics of the 300wsm. There has got to be a reason that everybody is still buying the 30-06

Because it works, and it works well. Without the excessive muzzle flash, retort, and recoil that you'll get from a magnum round. And consider this: if you ever need ammo in a small town out West, finding .30-06 won't be a problem. But I can imagine the blank stare that you might get from the store clerk after you've asked whether they carry 300 WSM ammo. If you go with a magnum round, try a .300 Win Mag, or a .338 Win Mag; at least then, you'll be more likely to find ammo in a small shop.

Let me ask you this: what particular ballistic characteristics does the 300 WSM possess that will make it a better choice than the .30-06? Just because it looks like a better round on paper does not mean that it will be a better round in actual hunting conditions. More energy and less drop at 500 yards? It wouldn't matter for me; I can't make those types of shots in a field condition (off the the bench) and reliably kill an animal regardless of what caliber I'm using.

youp · January 30, 2006, 12:08 PM

I own a short mag. It is a one holer at one hundred yards. It is a 7mm not a 300. Do yourself a favor and get the 06. There is a plethora of low cost ammo. You can find ammo anyplace that stocks it. The short mags have a limited magazine capacity, it is not a factor for me but others may need more in the mag. The short mags are limited to the lighter bullet weights, the larger bullets need to be seated to deeply in the case and the short mags have no room for that, this means less room for powder. I like my WSM, but I wish I had purchased a 7 mm Rem Mag for all of the above reasons. If you feel you need more than an '06 get a 300 Win Mag.

Dirty_Harry · January 30, 2006, 01:28 PM

I would say the .30-06, ammo is cheaper, rifles are more plentiful, kick is less for practicing, pretty much just as good if not the same.

147 Grain · January 30, 2006, 08:52 PM

Magnums are not needed for most big game.

A 30-06 shooting Winchester Supreme 180-gr. AccuBonds at 2,750 fps will do the trick on deer or elk. So will 180-gr. Nosler Ballistic Silvertips at 2,750 fps on deer and 180-gr. Federal High Energy Partions at 2,890

______________________

Want to turn your '06 into a "Magnum"?

Using a bullet that's very aerodynamic can make a difference as well, as shown in this example (below) using Winchester data.

When comparing a bullet's energy in a 30-06 versus a 300 Win Mag, if you put a premium 180-gr. Nosler AccuBond bullet in a 30-06 at 2,750 fps MV and compare it to a plain jane Winchester 180-gr. Power Point in a 300 Win Mag at 2,960 fps MV, the 30-06 AccuBond will have an amazing 104 ft. lbs more energy at 300 yards: that's right - 2,005 versus 1,901 (Source: Winchester's 2005 Ammo Catalog, p. 10 - 13).

This is called Ballistic Efficiency!

Note: Federal, Hornady, and Remington all report similar data when comparing premium ballistically efficient bullets to their standard line, with a 30-06 being equal to 300 Win Mag performance. Basically, the principle is the same as outline above.

Nosler AccuBond

The 30-06 180-gr. AccuBond with a BC of .509 easily makes up for and surpasses the 210 fps velocity advantage the 180-gr. Power Point had (to begin with) because of its much lower BC of only .349.

In short, an aerodynamic bullet with a high BC can turn a regular caliber like the 30-06 into a magnum, as far as performance is concerned and in this case, the 30-06 180-gr. AccuBond outperforms a 300 Win Mag 180-gr. Power Point at 300 yards, but give the 300 Win Mag the AccuBond and the tables are reversed.

In summary, there's two ways to get extra performance out of a 30-06:

1. Upgrade to High Energy or Lite Magnum ammo.
2. Upgrade to a premium bullet with a high BC for more energy downrange.

tulsamal · January 30, 2006, 09:27 PM

I live in NE OK so not too far from you. I would say the most common "first deer rifle" around here is in .243 Winchester. Easy to shoot and deadly on our smaller deer. That was true twenty years ago and today's even better bullets make it that much better. I like big bores for some things but a .243 is a great rifle to learn with.

Gregg

TPAW · January 30, 2006, 09:36 PM

I would without question go for the 30.06. It's the most versitile cartridge out there. Bullet grains range from 110 to 220 over the counter. Ammo is availabe just about anywhere in the world, and with the 110 to 220 grain bullets, you can hunt small to big game. The 30.06 will kill anything that walks in North America. You won't be dissapointed.

January 30, 2006, 08:16 AM	#1
jonb1 Junior Member Join Date: January 23, 2006 Posts: 11	? about first deer rifle I'm looking to buy my first nice deer rifle. I'll be hunting in southern MO for deer and maybe going out west someday for elk. I've shot a hundred 30-06s and they shoot fine, but I can't ignore the ballistics of the 300wsm. There has got to be a reason that everybody is still buying the 30-06, but I don't know what it is. If it is just tradition I'll be going with the 300wsm. some help please

January 30, 2006, 10:04 AM	#4
urbanassault Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 364	What do you think about a 7mm or a 270? __________________ Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

January 30, 2006, 10:39 AM	#5
FirstFreedom Junior member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A. Posts: 12,451	which 7mm? 7x57 mauser, 7mm-08, 7mm remmag, 280 remington (aka 7mm remington express). The .300 WSM is a poor choice for a deer rifle, and an especially poor choice for a first deer rifle, IMO. It's way overkill, unless you've been practicing for years and know how to hit on a 400-500 yard shot, and will be hunting in open plains. But that is not the case by definition, since it is a first deer rifle. The .30-'06 would certainly be a better choice than the .300 WSM, but it's far from being the best choice, IMO. But for starters, here's the advantages of .30-06 over .300 WSM, keeping in mind they are both too much for deer: -Far, far more abundant ammo in stores far and near. -Many more factory ammo selections -Less ammo expense -Damages less meat than the .300 WSM -No danger of going obsolete -More rifle makers/choices to pick from -Less recoil & muzzle blast (this is very important, because the easier it is on you, the more you will practice and enjoy practicing with it). Having said that, there are much better choices than the .30-06 for a dedicated deer rifle. Now if you were planning to hunt elk & caribou as well with it, then I would run with something a little bigger like the.270 win, .30-06 or maybe .300 winmag (bigger, badder, better than the WSM, and also won't be going obsolete). But the best dedicated deer gun calibers for brushy areas are .44 mag or .444 marlin / .45-70 gov't with light loads; something like that, maybe even .357 mag. The best all-around calibers for some timber with some open areas too would be .30-30 win, .35 remington, or maybe 7.62x39mm. The best dedicated deer gun calibers for mostly open areas are .243, .260 rem, .257 roberts, .250-3000 savage, 7mm-08, in that general range. There's nothing wrong with going bigger like the .270 win, .280 rem, or .30-06, but you have to ask yourself why do you want to put up with the recoil abuse and high cost of the ammo when there's absolutely nothing to be gained when it comes to shooting thin-skinned animals. They won't get any deader than a .260 rem will easily make them; the only thing you'll 'gain' is actually a loss, and that is lost meat through more bloodshot meat damage. Last edited by FirstFreedom; January 30, 2006 at 03:10 PM.

January 30, 2006, 11:18 AM	#7
ranger dave Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2005 Posts: 485	Mag Crazy The 30/06 Is Enough Gun For North American Game A Deer Gives Does Not Care About A Few Fps Got To The Range And Shoot 200 Rounds A Week Till Opening Day And You Will See The Knock Down When You Put One In The Pump Station

January 30, 2006, 11:29 AM	#8
urbanassault Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 364	I liked the 7mm (savage) but it had alot of kick compared to the the 270 (winchester) is the 270 overkill? (MN, whitetail) __________________ Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

January 30, 2006, 08:44 AM	#2
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	The 06 is around for a reason alright. It has a tradition of accuracy, and versatility. Weather it's deer, antelope, elk, bear, you name it, the 06 will usually do the trick. Being the caliber that haulted Hitler doesn't hurt either. And you would be hard pressed to find a ammunition selling store that wasn't well stocked on 06 ammo in many different choices. The .300 WSSM is also a great caliber, but is still an infant to this legendary round.

January 30, 2006, 09:01 AM	#3
joshua Senior Member Join Date: October 27, 2004 Location: norCal Posts: 2,161	If it's between the 30-06 and the 300 WSM I'll take the WSM. If you live in an area where there are Walmarts and specialty sportsman/outdoors stores the WSM supply is plenty. Now if you are in places such as Fairbanks AK then the O6 will be a better choice. josh

January 30, 2006, 11:06 AM	#6
dmented692006 Member Join Date: January 21, 2006 Posts: 60	i was trying to decide between a 30-06 and a 7mm wsm and i picked the 30-06 because the ammo is cheap and u can get it anywhere, even africa, but if u want something with more power id recommend the 7mm wsm.

January 30, 2006, 12:08 PM	#10
youp Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2005 Location: south of Canada, eh? Posts: 438	I own a short mag. It is a one holer at one hundred yards. It is a 7mm not a 300. Do yourself a favor and get the 06. There is a plethora of low cost ammo. You can find ammo anyplace that stocks it. The short mags have a limited magazine capacity, it is not a factor for me but others may need more in the mag. The short mags are limited to the lighter bullet weights, the larger bullets need to be seated to deeply in the case and the short mags have no room for that, this means less room for powder. I like my WSM, but I wish I had purchased a 7 mm Rem Mag for all of the above reasons. If you feel you need more than an '06 get a 300 Win Mag.

January 30, 2006, 01:28 PM	#11
Dirty_Harry Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2006 Location: Kalamazoo, MI Posts: 1,484	I would say the .30-06, ammo is cheaper, rifles are more plentiful, kick is less for practicing, pretty much just as good if not the same. __________________ "The only purpose for a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you never should have laid down." "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them." -John Wayne

January 30, 2006, 08:52 PM	#12
147 Grain Senior Member Join Date: January 21, 2005 Posts: 281	30-06 Magnum?????????? Magnums are not needed for most big game. A 30-06 shooting Winchester Supreme 180-gr. AccuBonds at 2,750 fps will do the trick on deer or elk. So will 180-gr. Nosler Ballistic Silvertips at 2,750 fps on deer and 180-gr. Federal High Energy Partions at 2,890 ______________________ Want to turn your '06 into a "Magnum"? Using a bullet that's very aerodynamic can make a difference as well, as shown in this example (below) using Winchester data. When comparing a bullet's energy in a 30-06 versus a 300 Win Mag, if you put a premium 180-gr. Nosler AccuBond bullet in a 30-06 at 2,750 fps MV and compare it to a plain jane Winchester 180-gr. Power Point in a 300 Win Mag at 2,960 fps MV, the 30-06 AccuBond will have an amazing 104 ft. lbs more energy at 300 yards: that's right - 2,005 versus 1,901 (Source: Winchester's 2005 Ammo Catalog, p. 10 - 13). This is called Ballistic Efficiency! Note: Federal, Hornady, and Remington all report similar data when comparing premium ballistically efficient bullets to their standard line, with a 30-06 being equal to 300 Win Mag performance. Basically, the principle is the same as outline above. Nosler AccuBond The 30-06 180-gr. AccuBond with a BC of .509 easily makes up for and surpasses the 210 fps velocity advantage the 180-gr. Power Point had (to begin with) because of its much lower BC of only .349. In short, an aerodynamic bullet with a high BC can turn a regular caliber like the 30-06 into a magnum, as far as performance is concerned and in this case, the 30-06 180-gr. AccuBond outperforms a 300 Win Mag 180-gr. Power Point at 300 yards, but give the 300 Win Mag the AccuBond and the tables are reversed. In summary, there's two ways to get extra performance out of a 30-06: 1. Upgrade to High Energy or Lite Magnum ammo. 2. Upgrade to a premium bullet with a high BC for more energy downrange. __________________ Aim for the Thoracic Triangle Area between the armpits & throat.

January 30, 2006, 09:27 PM	#13
tulsamal Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2004 Location: Vinita, OK Posts: 2,552	I live in NE OK so not too far from you. I would say the most common "first deer rifle" around here is in .243 Winchester. Easy to shoot and deadly on our smaller deer. That was true twenty years ago and today's even better bullets make it that much better. I like big bores for some things but a .243 is a great rifle to learn with. Gregg

January 30, 2006, 09:36 PM	#14
TPAW Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2005 Posts: 2,860	I would without question go for the 30.06. It's the most versitile cartridge out there. Bullet grains range from 110 to 220 over the counter. Ammo is availabe just about anywhere in the world, and with the 110 to 220 grain bullets, you can hunt small to big game. The 30.06 will kill anything that walks in North America. You won't be dissapointed.