Did you escape to a less restrictive state? - Page 3

RedBowTies88 · January 15, 2013, 11:53 AM

That fact that anyone would have to leave their home due to an infringement of rights supposed GUARANTEED to them by the Constitution of the United States disgusts me to no end.

What disgusts me almost as much is the general response of fellow americans in other states. They say just simply "move away" nevermind the oppression or the right being trampled on just move away and forget the problem.

I don't know about you guys but last I checked ignoring problems didn't fix anything. Now thanks to these states that violate the constitution on a daily basis we have to worry about national reprecussions like bans and further restrictive legslation.

Is the federal goverment would come in and do their job and enforce the second amendment and the court ruling defining it then we can start to change these people. Take it from me, a NJ resident all my life. Guns are monsters here thats what the state tells you and thats how people are brought up... brainwashing at its best. I would hazard a guess that 90+% of life long New Jersians have no clue that people in other states can carry a gun day to day for protection. Its mind boggeling to them.

This all needs to stop. we as A COUNTRY need to come together to wipe opression out of this country forever. No more leaving the citizens in the ban states high and dry and on their own. There is nothing we can do on our own to change our own laws when 75+% of the population agrees with them the way they are and so do the judges.

Strafer Gott · January 15, 2013, 01:30 PM

Hey, I didn't have to leave. I left before I did have to leave. Too many eastern states operate under the principle of "keep your head in the trough and don't squeal." I came back from the service, and was treated like a draft dodger. Then I signed up for the GI bill for some education, but for some reason, the state decided not to participate. Then I went down to the county seat to get a permit for a handgun I already owned, bought in Texas. They considered my request for about two seconds, then told me I didn't need it enough to justify issuance. Then they asked me to bring it in. Bring it to the courthouse! Then I started to get all kinds of huge employment tax bills, all of them at the professional level(degreed). The powers that be issued bench warrants and liens based on these fraudulent claims.Then i started getting rousted by borough cops. I never had an arrest record, not even close. It was not hard to pack my stuff and go. It's funny, because New Mexico sure likes me, and I've had a good life.

RedBowTies88 · January 15, 2013, 01:33 PM

Moving away isn't the answer. Changing the states is.

jimbob86 · January 15, 2013, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Moving away isn't the answer. Changing the states is.

You have to pick your fights.

Some can't be won.

RedBowTies88 · January 15, 2013, 01:58 PM

Quote:

You have to pick your fights.

Some can't be won.

Nothing personal, but im my opinion that is exactly the mindset thats keeping us down.

People had been saying IL couldnt be won for decades.. look at the progres they've just made there. Sure they're not in the clear yet but still.

The only changes that will come to states like this will be forced from a federal level and thats not going to happen without more support from the rest of the country.

Think about jim crow laws... was the answer to them lets just have all the black people move away?

Brian Pfleuger · January 15, 2013, 02:04 PM

I don't have the money to change a state. I intend to leave at the earliest opportunity.

RedBowTies88 · January 15, 2013, 02:08 PM

My condolences on the new law

These states cannot be changed from within... they need to be forced to obey the constitution by the federal goverment.

Brian Pfleuger · January 15, 2013, 02:10 PM

Sadly, I believe you are correct. The changes in IL are only "from within" in the sense that there is a "poster child" named on the lawsuit. Huge proportions of the necessary manpower and finances come from all across the nation.

RedBowTies88 · January 15, 2013, 02:19 PM

Indeed. I just don't understand why it's so "ok" that we are forced to live the way we do here.

You would think trampling on someones rights would recieve an outcry from across the nation. Sadly I suspect it has been happeneing so long people just accept it. Sickening.

Brian Pfleuger · January 15, 2013, 02:31 PM

Well, that's exactly it, I'd say.

We used to call it the Slippery Slope but someone changed it to Creeping Incrementalism.

Just like a frog in a pot of water on the stove. Dropped right into boiling water, it would be out so fast that it would hardly be burned but placed in luke-warm water with a flame under it, it'll sit there until it cooks to death.

Sadly, people are the same. No one would accept going from the freedoms we had until 1934 to the nonsense we have today in one fell swoop, but when it's just a bill or two here or there, and amendment or executive order now and then....

A couple of generations later, we don't even know what freedom is and the closest thing we come to an outcry is to negotiate how much more we'll give away.

breakingcontact · January 15, 2013, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Points of consideration, in order: gun-friendly laws, more moderate climate, and, reasonable cost of living.

I was looking at housing in Anchorage today and was surprised at how relatively expensive it is.

With the new NY laws, perhaps more firearms manufacturers will finally leave the NE states as well.

spencer5650 · January 15, 2013, 04:54 PM

Not yet, but very soon. I'll be moving the family to Southern Indiana this summer.

breakingcontact · January 15, 2013, 05:13 PM

Indiana doesn't get mentioned much in these conversations but its a pretty good state!

RedBowTies88 · January 15, 2013, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Indiana doesn't get mentioned much in these conversations but its a pretty good state!

It's SUPPOSED to be a pretty good entire country.

Gun rights aren't up to the states.. this is clearly defined in the Constitution.

We need to stop worrieng about what states "are good" and figure out how to get the rest of the country to follow the supreme law of the land.

Brian Pfleuger · January 15, 2013, 05:40 PM

Well, that's the current state of things but I actually disagree with Incorporation.

Specifically, we in NY don't need to worry about the new (or existing laws) violating the 2A of the COTUS.

The New York Civil Rights Law, Article 2, Section for provides that:

Right to keep and bear arms. A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms cannot be infringed.

The laws clearly violate New Yorks own law and constitutional provisions. The COTUS shouldn't even matter.

FrankenMauser · January 15, 2013, 06:31 PM

Quote:

I was looking at housing in Anchorage today and was surprised at how relatively expensive it is.

That's because there aren't many jobs, and all of your money goes toward other costs of living (food, clothing, power, etc).

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBowTies88

What disgusts me almost as much is the general response of fellow americans in other states. They say just simply "move away" nevermind the oppression or the right being trampled on just move away and forget the problem.
...
This all needs to stop. we as A COUNTRY need to come together to wipe opression out of this country forever. No more leaving the citizens in the ban states high and dry and on their own. There is nothing we can do on our own to change our own laws when 75+% of the population agrees with them the way they are and so do the judges.

If the people in your own state won't stand up for their rights, why should I stick my neck out for them?

If they are willing to be 'trampled' and abused, then they are getting what they deserve.
Education and activism starts at home - not half way across the country. Get people in your own state active and motivated, and you'll be able to get outside help. But, as long as the residents of the state are willing to lay down and take the abuse, there's no point in outside parties trying to help.

RedBowTies88 · January 15, 2013, 06:35 PM

We are standing up for our rights, problem is compared to those who wish to have our rights stripped our numbers are useless. So the 1 in 8 of us who believe in being free have to suffer becuase of all the sheep? Or maybe we should just move away?

You should stick your neck out for us becuase we're americans... we live and fight under the same flag. Not to mention the reprocussions from ketting these states go unchecked for so long is what we're seeing now. The lawmakers and people from those states pushing to get their way on a NATIONAL level.

breakingcontact · January 15, 2013, 07:47 PM

Re: Indiana...

Meant it was overall a very nice underrated state. Not just for 2A.

Y'all in failed states got to decide to fight or join us in the free states. Appreciate if you go down with the ship but may want to pray like hell and row towards the shore.

CUBAN REDNECK · January 15, 2013, 10:58 PM

I literally ran away from Massachusetts over 20 years ago due to the suffocating nature of most of the laws there, especially the ones concerning firearms. As a member of a minority group, I found the patronizing laws inimical to my personal liberties.

SC4006 · January 15, 2013, 11:22 PM

I've been fortunate enough to live in New Hampshire all of my life, its a great state in every aspect imo, not just because of it's pro gun attitude. I don't plan on ever moving out of it, and I also do not think NH's attitude will change about the 2nd amendment.

Dragline45 · January 16, 2013, 12:46 AM

I live in Massachusetts where we have some of the stricter gun laws in the country. As much as I would like to move to a gun friendlier state, family and friends are more important to me than increasing my selection of guns to buy.

Quote:

I've been fortunate enough to live in New Hampshire all of my life, its a great state in every aspect imo, not just because of it's pro gun attitude. I don't plan on ever moving out of it, and I also do not think NH's attitude will change about the 2nd amendment.

I lived in NH 2 years, and it is a great state besides one thing, the police are bastards. Never gotten pulled over so many times for doing absolutely nothing, and then to top it all off they treat you like a criminal regardless of what you did. Now it could have been my Massachusetts plates the whole time I lived there, but even so I cringe every time I have to drive through that state.

jmortimer · January 16, 2013, 12:54 AM

Smart to leave a state that is lost and move to a state that respects you. Only a fool would stay under the boot of idiot laws if they have a choice. Where I live is so far gone that I'm getting out as soon as I am able.

wet · January 16, 2013, 03:17 AM

RedBow, I coulden't agree more! Don't be run out of your home, fight for what is right.
I can't help but notice that the most violent citys are the ones that have the strictest gun laws. More guns= more resistence to violence. Most criminals are cowerds and pick on the weak. Don't be weak.

mayosligo · January 16, 2013, 07:09 AM

Of course as more people leave these states it threatens the amount of power they have in Washington as they will eventually lose congressmen. ( that is if the government does not change that process too )

RedBowTies88 · January 16, 2013, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Smart to leave a state that is lost and move to a state that respects you. Only a fool would stay under the boot of idiot laws if they have a choice. Where I live is so far gone that I'm getting out as soon as I am able.

What about those who are too poor to pick up and move?

What about those giving care to a sick family member or who are themselves not well enough to move? What about the grandparents who live a block away from their grandchildren... they should move away too?

What about those who are the principal in a business built by the blood sweat and tears of their ancestors? They should just forget it all and pick up and move too?

Like I said before, it's funny how no one thought the answer to jim crowe laws was for all the minorities to pick up and leave... I sure as hell don't see the difference except the fact that these laws are aginst the whole population and not just one or several races.

Once again the fact that people think moving away is the answer completely mind boggles me.

January 15, 2013, 11:53 AM	#51
RedBowTies88 Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2011 Location: 609 NJ Posts: 705	That fact that anyone would have to leave their home due to an infringement of rights supposed GUARANTEED to them by the Constitution of the United States disgusts me to no end. What disgusts me almost as much is the general response of fellow americans in other states. They say just simply "move away" nevermind the oppression or the right being trampled on just move away and forget the problem. I don't know about you guys but last I checked ignoring problems didn't fix anything. Now thanks to these states that violate the constitution on a daily basis we have to worry about national reprecussions like bans and further restrictive legslation. Is the federal goverment would come in and do their job and enforce the second amendment and the court ruling defining it then we can start to change these people. Take it from me, a NJ resident all my life. Guns are monsters here thats what the state tells you and thats how people are brought up... brainwashing at its best. I would hazard a guess that 90+% of life long New Jersians have no clue that people in other states can carry a gun day to day for protection. Its mind boggeling to them. This all needs to stop. we as A COUNTRY need to come together to wipe opression out of this country forever. No more leaving the citizens in the ban states high and dry and on their own. There is nothing we can do on our own to change our own laws when 75+% of the population agrees with them the way they are and so do the judges. __________________ "...with liberty and justice for all." (Must be 21. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states.)

January 15, 2013, 01:33 PM	#53
RedBowTies88 Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2011 Location: 609 NJ Posts: 705	Moving away isn't the answer. Changing the states is. __________________ "...with liberty and justice for all." (Must be 21. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states.)

January 15, 2013, 02:04 PM	#56
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	I don't have the money to change a state. I intend to leave at the earliest opportunity. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

January 15, 2013, 02:08 PM	#57
RedBowTies88 Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2011 Location: 609 NJ Posts: 705	My condolences on the new law These states cannot be changed from within... they need to be forced to obey the constitution by the federal goverment. __________________ "...with liberty and justice for all." (Must be 21. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states.)

January 15, 2013, 02:10 PM	#58
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Sadly, I believe you are correct. The changes in IL are only "from within" in the sense that there is a "poster child" named on the lawsuit. Huge proportions of the necessary manpower and finances come from all across the nation. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

January 15, 2013, 01:30 PM	#52
Strafer Gott Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2011 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,315	Hey, I didn't have to leave. I left before I did have to leave. Too many eastern states operate under the principle of "keep your head in the trough and don't squeal." I came back from the service, and was treated like a draft dodger. Then I signed up for the GI bill for some education, but for some reason, the state decided not to participate. Then I went down to the county seat to get a permit for a handgun I already owned, bought in Texas. They considered my request for about two seconds, then told me I didn't need it enough to justify issuance. Then they asked me to bring it in. Bring it to the courthouse! Then I started to get all kinds of huge employment tax bills, all of them at the professional level(degreed). The powers that be issued bench warrants and liens based on these fraudulent claims.Then i started getting rousted by borough cops. I never had an arrest record, not even close. It was not hard to pack my stuff and go. It's funny, because New Mexico sure likes me, and I've had a good life.

January 15, 2013, 02:19 PM	#59
RedBowTies88 Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2011 Location: 609 NJ Posts: 705	Indeed. I just don't understand why it's so "ok" that we are forced to live the way we do here. You would think trampling on someones rights would recieve an outcry from across the nation. Sadly I suspect it has been happeneing so long people just accept it. Sickening. __________________ "...with liberty and justice for all." (Must be 21. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states.)

January 15, 2013, 02:31 PM	#60
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Well, that's exactly it, I'd say. We used to call it the Slippery Slope but someone changed it to Creeping Incrementalism. Just like a frog in a pot of water on the stove. Dropped right into boiling water, it would be out so fast that it would hardly be burned but placed in luke-warm water with a flame under it, it'll sit there until it cooks to death. Sadly, people are the same. No one would accept going from the freedoms we had until 1934 to the nonsense we have today in one fell swoop, but when it's just a bill or two here or there, and amendment or executive order now and then.... A couple of generations later, we don't even know what freedom is and the closest thing we come to an outcry is to negotiate how much more we'll give away. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

January 15, 2013, 04:54 PM	#62
spencer5650 Member Join Date: June 3, 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 23	Not yet, but very soon. I'll be moving the family to Southern Indiana this summer.

January 15, 2013, 05:13 PM	#63
breakingcontact Junior member Join Date: October 25, 2012 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 736	Indiana doesn't get mentioned much in these conversations but its a pretty good state!

January 15, 2013, 05:40 PM	#65
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Well, that's the current state of things but I actually disagree with Incorporation. Specifically, we in NY don't need to worry about the new (or existing laws) violating the 2A of the COTUS. The New York Civil Rights Law, Article 2, Section for provides that: Right to keep and bear arms. A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms cannot be infringed. The laws clearly violate New Yorks own law and constitutional provisions. The COTUS shouldn't even matter. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

January 15, 2013, 06:35 PM	#67
RedBowTies88 Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2011 Location: 609 NJ Posts: 705	We are standing up for our rights, problem is compared to those who wish to have our rights stripped our numbers are useless. So the 1 in 8 of us who believe in being free have to suffer becuase of all the sheep? Or maybe we should just move away? You should stick your neck out for us becuase we're americans... we live and fight under the same flag. Not to mention the reprocussions from ketting these states go unchecked for so long is what we're seeing now. The lawmakers and people from those states pushing to get their way on a NATIONAL level. __________________ "...with liberty and justice for all." (Must be 21. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states.)

January 15, 2013, 07:47 PM	#68
breakingcontact Junior member Join Date: October 25, 2012 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 736	Re: Indiana... Meant it was overall a very nice underrated state. Not just for 2A. Y'all in failed states got to decide to fight or join us in the free states. Appreciate if you go down with the ship but may want to pray like hell and row towards the shore.

January 15, 2013, 10:58 PM	#69
CUBAN REDNECK Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2009 Location: SW FLORIDA Posts: 318	I literally ran away from Massachusetts over 20 years ago due to the suffocating nature of most of the laws there, especially the ones concerning firearms. As a member of a minority group, I found the patronizing laws inimical to my personal liberties.

January 15, 2013, 11:22 PM	#70
SC4006 Senior Member Join Date: June 27, 2012 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 525	I've been fortunate enough to live in New Hampshire all of my life, its a great state in every aspect imo, not just because of it's pro gun attitude. I don't plan on ever moving out of it, and I also do not think NH's attitude will change about the 2nd amendment. __________________ I don't always go to the range, but when I do, I prefer dosAKs. They say 5 out of 4 people are bad at math.

January 16, 2013, 12:54 AM	#72
jmortimer Junior member Join Date: January 24, 2010 Location: South West Riverside County California Posts: 2,763	Smart to leave a state that is lost and move to a state that respects you. Only a fool would stay under the boot of idiot laws if they have a choice. Where I live is so far gone that I'm getting out as soon as I am able.

January 16, 2013, 03:17 AM	#73
wet Member Join Date: October 2, 2011 Location: ID. Posts: 89	RedBow, I coulden't agree more! Don't be run out of your home, fight for what is right. I can't help but notice that the most violent citys are the ones that have the strictest gun laws. More guns= more resistence to violence. Most criminals are cowerds and pick on the weak. Don't be weak.

January 16, 2013, 07:09 AM	#74
mayosligo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 301	Of course as more people leave these states it threatens the amount of power they have in Washington as they will eventually lose congressmen. ( that is if the government does not change that process too )