November 8, 2011, 03:28 PM | #1501 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 11, 2008
Posts: 1,931
|
I got a chuckle as well when Cornyn asked if he actually knew the differences between Fast and Furious and Wide Receiver or if he was just "winging it".
At least he seemed to finally to admit there were substantial differences in the approach and results...which kind of puts that issue to rest. Or would, in a perfect world.
__________________
Quote:
|
|
November 8, 2011, 04:10 PM | #1502 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 26, 2005
Location: The Bluegrass
Posts: 9,137
|
Not unexpectedly, CNN's online coverage made sure to play up the Bush era connection in the body of the report. In the video at the site, Holder said 64,000 of the 94,000 guns traced came back to this country. All of us here know this is either a bald faced lie or, to be more gracious, a tortured exercise in semantics and statistics without any real foundation in reality. I haven't seen if anybody called him on this.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/08/us/hol...ion=cnn_latest |
November 8, 2011, 05:37 PM | #1503 | |
Staff
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 13,057
|
Quote:
He claims that he only heard about the allegations "a couple of months" before his testimony in May, but the allegations were in the media as far back as January.
__________________
Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe |
|
November 8, 2011, 06:06 PM | #1504 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 20, 2007
Location: S.E. Minnesota
Posts: 4,720
|
So basically Holder is testifying to Congress that he doesn't do anything. Someone should be asking, "What exactly are we paying you for?", and making noises about defunding his office.
__________________
"Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth |
November 8, 2011, 07:59 PM | #1505 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 7, 1999
Posts: 3,847
|
Comment preceeding the following aside, this is not to minimize anything previously brought to attention, the BATFE, the DOJ and Obama et al are plainly beyone the pale.
Interestingly I suspect, hope I'm wrong here, but I submit that the heads that really need to roll, won't. |
November 9, 2011, 09:37 AM | #1506 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 4, 2009
Location: Frozen Tundra
Posts: 2,414
|
Quote:
__________________
Molon Labe |
|
November 9, 2011, 12:18 PM | #1507 |
member
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 8,462
|
Sounds like someone promised Dennis Burke a pardon...
The Daily Caller is reporting that Dennis Burke has admitted to leaking the sensitive memo that was used by the press to cast doubt on Special Agent John Dodson when he first came forward to tell his story to CBS News. "Dennis regrets his role in disclosing the memo but he’s a stand-up guy and is willing to take responsibility for what he did,” Chuck Rosenberg, Burke’s lawyer, said according to NPR. “It was absolutely not Dennis’s intent to retaliate against Special Agent Dodson or anyone else for the information they provided Congress.” So Burke just admited to a federal crime (the release of the senstitive information, and if a jury disbelieves his story about intent, retaliation against a whistleblower). Since I'm kind of skeptical a "stand-up guy" would have gotten involved in the mess to begin with - or tried to "dirty up" an agent who protested and then release sensitive information to smear said agent, it seems to me more likely that Burke is angling for the Scoober Libby Presidential Pardon Award for leaking sensitive information to discredit critics. Naturally, I am sure this particular revelation will be pursued by the press with the same tenacity as the Plame story... |
November 9, 2011, 01:20 PM | #1508 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 7, 1999
Posts: 3,847
|
Interestingly, from what I see/hear, note the following:
1. Today is 9 November. During today's broadcast on what used to be WDUQ FM, Public Radio in Pittsburgh, PA, now Essential Public Radio, essentially an "all talk" format, there was a segment dealing with Operation Fast and Furious, featuring a couple of reporters, and a number of callers. The present administration seems to have taken a beating. 2. I believe that NPR News Feeds, news stories that provide space for reader comment on The Internet aso carried a segment on Fast and Furious. The thing appears to have grown legs, legs that one hopes will not be cut off at the knees. |
November 9, 2011, 07:28 PM | #1509 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 24, 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 2,902
|
This sounds like Burke might have cut his own deal - and Burke was in a position to know who knew what and when.
|
November 9, 2011, 07:34 PM | #1510 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 7, 1999
Posts: 3,847
|
Re Bartholomew Roberts Sounds like someone promised Dennis Burke a pardon...
So Burke just admited to a federal crime (the release of the senstitive information, and if a jury disbelieves his story about intent, retaliation against a whistleblower). Since I'm kind of skeptical a "stand-up guy" would have gotten involved in the mess to begin with - or tried to "dirty up" an agent who protested and then release sensitive information to smear said agent, it seems to me more likely that Burke is angling for the Scoober Libby Presidential Pardon Award for leaking sensitive information to discredit critics. Naturally, I am sure this particular revelation will be pursued by the press with the same tenacity as the Plame story... Two things come to mind. Burke will likely get whatever in the way of presidential pardons he might end up in need of, less Obama et al end up looking worse than they do now. By the way, does anyone credit the idea that Obama was in any way, unaware of what was going on? As to Bart's reference to how the press might/will handle this "particular revelation", he is likely all to correct, though some parts of "the press" seem to be awakening to this situation. |
November 9, 2011, 07:56 PM | #1511 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 9, 2002
Posts: 1,936
|
Holder admits earlier perjury before Congress
Quote:
|
|
November 9, 2011, 08:12 PM | #1512 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 24, 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 2,902
|
Quote:
Did Holder willfully tell a falsehood about a material matter? Willful - check.If it can be proven that Holder knew about Fast and Furious from its inception, then testifying that he had known about it for "a couple of weeks" rather than "a couple of years" would probably be material. The difference between "a couple of weeks" and "a couple of months" would probably not be material in the context of when significant events occurred. |
|
November 9, 2011, 09:08 PM | #1513 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 6, 1999
Location: Richmond, Virginia USA
Posts: 6,004
|
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...81M_story.html
"Admits mistakes" Just not his. I like the way he blamed the errors on ATF and others giving him bad info. "amended his recollection" is a great phrase. |
November 9, 2011, 09:18 PM | #1514 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 7, 2008
Posts: 550
|
The question of who is going to prosecute Holder and others involved in F&F has come up many times. I think we can safely eliminate a Special Prosecutor appointed by the AG!
I ran into this today, maybe others more qualified than I, can check into it further. It looks to me like it may have possibilities. TITLE 18 > PART II > CHAPTER 216 > §*3332 §*3332. POWERS AND DUTIES (a) It shall be the duty of each such grand jury impaneled within any judicial district to inquire into offenses against the criminal laws of the United States alleged to have been committed within that district. Such alleged offenses may be brought to the attention of the grand jury by the court or by any attorney appearing on behalf of the United States for the presentation of evidence. Any such attorney receiving information concerning such an alleged offense from any other person shall, if requested by such other person, inform the grand jury of such alleged offense, the identity of such other person, and such attorney’s action or recommendation.
__________________
In my hour of darkness In my time of need Oh Lord grant me vision Oh Lord grant me speed - Gram Parsons |
November 9, 2011, 11:08 PM | #1515 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 21, 2000
Location: Minnesota, Twin Cities
Posts: 1,076
|
I believe I saw Holder say something to the effect that even though the tactics ended up being wrong in "Fast and Furious", those tactics were a result of the need to increase gun controls in the USA to prevent guns from getting into the hands of criminals, including those in Mexico. Those aren't his exact words, but close enough for meaning and intent. I believe he just admitted that F&F was indeed a program meant to expose lax gun laws (in the minds of anti gun ideologists such as Holder and Obama) in the USA as a major source of guns for the mexican drug cartels. We'll never hear them admit that, but call it one of those "gut check" intuition feelings one occasionally gets.
__________________
"If you love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." Samuel Adams. |
November 10, 2011, 03:09 AM | #1516 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 11, 1999
Location: Longmont, CO, USA
Posts: 4,530
|
Let the record reflect that Mr. Holder is unapologetically regretful for "what happened" to Brian Terry.
Let the record also reflect that "what happened" to Brian Terry is that he was murdered with a firearm placed in the hands of Mexican criminals by the BATFE. Quote:
__________________
Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm. "Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare "Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed" -- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey |
|
November 10, 2011, 09:26 AM | #1517 |
member
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 8,462
|
PJ Media has a nice piece on Sen. Cornyn putting a pin in the Wide Receiver balloon.
Holder: "Senator, I have not tried to equate the two–I have not tried to equate Wide Receiver with Fast and Furious. . . . Again, I’m not trying to equate the two." Once again, Holder didn't let his fingerprints get on the idea to try and equate the two; but he did release memos calculated to create that impression, and I've certainly seen that fact highlighted by friendly press, and of course, he let Senators Schumer and Feinstein wax poetic about Wide Receiver without once attempting to correct them. It was great fun to see Schumer, Feinstein and Holder blunder into an obvious PR trap though. I don't know if they truly didn't see that coming or just didn't care because they figured it would never get reported to their constituents. |
November 10, 2011, 09:49 AM | #1518 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 30, 2007
Location: South CA
Posts: 566
|
I see a meme running around that a federal gun registry, in Holder's opinion, would have prevented F+F.
Since F+F depended on ATF breaching existing law, why would a registry have changed the outcome? Made the task more coplicated, perhaps, but if felonies don't deter ATF and DOJ agents, what is a little finagling with a registry going to do? Rank stupidity.
__________________
Loyalty to petrified opinions never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul in this world — and never will. — Mark Twain |
November 10, 2011, 10:07 AM | #1519 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: July 26, 2005
Location: The Bluegrass
Posts: 9,137
|
Quote:
Quote:
I think the folks who are angling for a perjury charge are going to be disappointed. It will never happened, IMO. Maybe Holder resigns but even that is a long shot with the election just a year away. It would be an admission of trouble at the top of the Obama administration. Of course, I could be wrong. I was once before. |
||
November 10, 2011, 05:59 PM | #1520 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 11, 2008
Posts: 1,931
|
Interesting letter dated Oct 9 2011, maybe it was already posted.
http://www.foxnews.com/interactive/p...ersight-panel/
__________________
Quote:
|
|
November 10, 2011, 09:47 PM | #1521 | |
Staff
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 18,434
|
Quote:
F&F had nothing to do with keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, and it had nothing to do with bringing down the heads of Mexican cartels. The guns were going to Mexico and they knew it, so it wasn't about keeping guns out of the hands of American criminals. And there were NO assets or mechanisms in place in Mexico to track the guns -- in fact, the U.S. didn't even let the Mexicans or our own personnel in Mexico know about the operation -- so any claim that they were intending to track the guns to cartel big-wigs is clearly spurious. In fact, the intent of the program was specifically to put American guns -- that could be traced to the United States, and to straw purchasers in the United States -- INTO the hands of Mexican criminals, with the full intent that these guns WOULD be used to commit crimes. And after they were used, they would be recovered by the Mexicans and traced to the U.S. thereby bolstering the false claim that American gun shops are arming the Mexican cartels. The administration and the BATFE knew exactly what these guns would be used for, and they viewed the crime victims as collateral damage. The only thing they didn't anticipate was that one (or two or three, but who's counting) of the guns would be used to kill a U.S. Border Patrol agent. Unintended consequences ... |
|
November 10, 2011, 09:59 PM | #1522 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 4, 2009
Location: Frozen Tundra
Posts: 2,414
|
Ding, ding, ding we have a winner! If this was any other entity the RICO charges would be well underway as they should still be for this criminal enterprise.
__________________
Molon Labe |
November 10, 2011, 10:05 PM | #1523 | |
Staff
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 13,057
|
Quote:
__________________
Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe |
|
November 11, 2011, 12:45 AM | #1524 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 7, 1999
Posts: 3,847
|
zxcvbob wrote:
So basically Holder is testifying to Congress that he doesn't do anything. Someone should be asking, "What exactly are we paying you for?", and making noises about defunding his office. Seems like a reasonable question, think anyone from Obama et al, SA might come up with an answer? |
November 11, 2011, 12:52 AM | #1525 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 7, 1999
Posts: 3,847
|
Re jimpeel in post # 1514:
I expect that push coming to shove, if it ever did, Mr. Holder would be eligible, as long as Obama is in office, for whatever he might need in the way of presdidential pardons. Can the president pardon himself? |
Tags |
atf , fast and furious |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|