Strange 1911 malfunction. Diagnosis?

[Correia]

My 1911 (full size Springfield) has started having a strange malfunction. It happens only on the last round from the magazine. Probably once every 4 or 5 mags.

The gun will feed fine. The last round will be fired, instead of ejecting from the gun, the spent casing will end up with the base stuck between the magazine lips. Because follower isn't allowed to rise, the slide stop doesn't stop the slide. The cartridge is pushed forward, and the mouth of the case is crushed against the front of the ejection port at an angle. This usually squishes and tears the mouth of the case.

It is a pain to clear, tap rack bang doesn't work. Dropping the magazine is difficult.

My gun has probably around 3000 rounds through it. It has been a super reliable gun thus far. I do not believe this is magazine related as it happens with all my magazines that have thus far been fine. Same with ammo.

I'm guessing that my extractor is going bad. I figure that the rim must be slipping out from under the claw while traveling back. When there are other rounds in the mag it must just bump out the side of the gun.

Please help! This is my main carry gun. I love this gun.

Thanks

-Larry

[clem]

So, once in 4 to 5 magazines of ammo, (28-35 rounds) this happens? And with the last round?

Mark your magazines 1 through whatever. Go out and shoot some rounds through your weapon. See if it happens with different magazines or maybe with just a certain one.

I don't think your extractor is bad because it is extracting except on this last round.

Make sure you are not "limp wristing" the weapon.

Factory ammo or reloads?

This is just a start on the investigation of your problem. Advise on the results suggested and anything else that happens.

[Edward429451]

So, once in 4 to 5 magazines of ammo, (28-35 rounds) this happens? And with the last round?

Factory ammo? Reloads? Type of brass?

[Correia]

Clem, good questions.

I've got a total of 10 1911 magazines. This malfunction has happened in 5 of them. All of these mags were fine previously. I can't get any one of them to jam twice consecutively.

Ammo is mostly handloads, but the same handload that I've been using for years. Ammo is consistent and good. I also had the malfunction with Triton 230 gr. Quikshok.

Limp wristing. Nobody who has ever seen me in person has ever accused me of that before. No seriously I don't think that is the problem. I'm a serious shooter who has been doing this for awhile. I'm a sharpshooter in IDPA. I'm pretty sure I would know if I wasn't holding the gun sufficiently tight, plus since this is a last round failure I don't think that is it.

[C.R.Sam]

Maby....
You have several marginal mag springs.
A stretch, but possible.

Sam

[BigG]

Sounds mag related, Larry. Also, breech face may need cleaning?

[Correia]

Verdict is in. It is the extractor. Stripped the gun, looks like the extractor hook is damaged. Wasn't holding the casing in place.

And here is the stupid part, as I start thinking about it, these malfunctions didn't start happening until just a while ago when I had a stuck cartridge, and had to really yank on it to get the case out. It is possible that I hurt it then.

Ordering an Ed Brown extractor on Monday.

[Jim V]

And what were you told to check at the 1911 Forum? The extractor, correct? Glad you got it figured out and the fix is on thew ay.

[clem]

That's great that you've located the problem. The M1911's are great pistols, but can be a bear getting them to operate just right.
I've got three of them and one is a Springfield in SS. It's my best shooter.

[C.R.Sam]

Witholding cheers till it has been tested with new extractor.
I hope that does it but wonder....only on last round.

Suggest not touchin the mags untill after test. One change at a time makes it easier to pinpoint problem/cure.

Sam

[George Stringer]

Since it is only a problem on the last round and doesn't happen all the time I would first suspect you relaxing your grip on the last shot of the magazine. Usually folks that shoot a lot can tell you how many shots they have left whether they are consciously counting them or not and your mind has a tendency to let you relax knowing it's the last shot. I really think that if it was an extractor problem it would be happening much more than just on the last round. George

[Correia]

George, that is a possibility. If I've learned one thing it is that you when shooting, your body will often do things that your mind doesn't even get. This can be really good, or really bad.

I won't touch the mags until I get the new extractor in. I'll let you guys know how it turns out.

[Thumper]

Larry...

I think the reason it was only occuring on the last round is that the case was kind of slipping low from under the broken extractor claw on retraction.

It was able to do the Seecamp thing and use the nose of the next round in the mag as an ejector. Last round=no "ejector," so it ends up jammed in amongst the mag lips.

I think from your posts you already suspect this; I was just throwing an explanation out for Sam.

He seems concerned about those mags!

[Correia]

Well guys, here is an update.

I ordered new recoil spring, new firing pin spring, and an Ed Brown extractor.

I detail stripped the slide, degreased it and cleaned the heck out of it. I was going to attempt to fit the Brown extractor myself. However once I got it in there it seems to be to long. Like much much longer than the old one. I'm not sure why that is, and I'm going to take it to my friend who is an actual smith to fit it.

So using the advice I got from TFL and 1911forum I readjusted my old extractor, (even though it looks like the actual hook has taken a beating). With the extractor rebent, I shot 12 magazines yesterday, and had this malfunction once. Instead of every 3 or 4 mags like I was having it before. So now I'm about 99% sure it is the extractor.

So now I plan on getting the new extractor fitted by somebody who knows what they are doing.

And another thing, while I was degreasing my gun I noticed that my plunger tube is starting to come loose a little bit when the safety is manipulated. The rear of it pops out a tiny bit. Is this a problem? When the grips are on it is unable to move.

And the Wolf recoils spring is the wrong size, it is to long. I can't to the best of my ability make it fit in the gun. And I'm not a weakling when it comes to hand strength either. So I'm guessing that either I got the wrong spring, or I'm supposed to trim the excess links off. Are you supposed to trim Wolf springs? I don't know.

Thanks for the help.

[C.R.Sam]

Thumper, thanks.

Larry.....one change at a time would help nail down the problem for sure.

Sounds like the plunger tube has either been smacked or wasn't properly staked to the frame. Smith, good smith, time.

Recoil spring sounds like wrong one if gun is in right mode and it won't go in. Call supplier or Wolf.

Keep on keepin on keepin us posted.

Sam.

[clem]

Larry,
It is possiable that you were sent the wrong spring. As far as Wolf springs go, they are the cats meow. Don't cut them.
The plunger tube needs to be re-fitted. And it takes a special tool to do the job right. I suggest that you take your weapon to the local gunsmith and have the plunger tube fixed and while you're there let him check out the spring problem.
You might as well have them look at the extractor.
Magazines: Check them for cracks by the rear of the lips. You can get new springs and followers from "Tom Forest". He advertises in "Shotgun News".

Hope this helps,

[fastbolt]

A few thoughts ... My Combat Commander developed this syndrome once, and it frustrated me no end until I figured out it was the extractor.

The main reason it occurs primarily, or exclusively, on the last round is because each of the previous rounds were being kept up by the next round in the magazine as they were being extracted from the chamber. How far were they thrown from the pistol? In any consistent pattern? When the magazine was empty there wasn't any support for the last round, and since the extractor was either out of spec regarding tension, and/or suffered chipping, the last case wasn't held up high enough in the proper position for the ejector to kick it out. It simply got pulled backward and down toward the magazine lips. Mine always ended up either crunched at the case mouth by the front of the ejection port, at approx 1:00 o'clock, or shoved back into the magazine lips.

A new extractor, properly adjusted for tension ... checked for proper radius of the hook edge ... and angle of the bottom beveled edge behind the hook where the case first is forced under the extractor ... and forward edge of the extractor which must clear the shoulder angle of the case head ... and your pistol should be fine.

Ask your friend to give your pistol a quick armorer's inspection while it's there ... Sometimes ejectors suffer damage or start to become loose ...

Call Dave at Wolff's if you're uncertain whether you have the right spring. If it's a full size pistol with a normal recoil spring guide, you might be using an 18lb extra-power spring, instead of the standard 16lb, and that's fine. They can be longer than the stock spring, due to dimensional differences of the number of coils and the gauge of the wire. Wollf Company makes premium springs, and they're great folks ...

You might want to have your gunsmith friend replace the firing pin spring with the extra-power one that accompanied your recoil spring, while you're at it ...

Have the plunger tube restaked ... no big deal for an armorer or gunsmith ... or just replace it if the staking rivets are damaged.

You might consider replacing your magazine springs while you're at it ... if you shoot a lot, and/or leave them loaded for long periods ...although there might be issues depending on any proprietary designs of the spring (a couple companies come to mind), which means you'd just have to get the right spring. (The FBI went to a 6 month/or 2,500 rounds fired replacement schedule for their single column magazine .45's using Wilson magazines.)

Inspect your magazine lips for any problems caused by the case being forced back into them. Probably fine, but why not take a look anyway ...

Then return to the range and shoot the living daylights out of your pistol ...

[Johnny Guest]

- -- BUT, you might want to make a very careful examination of the ejector as well. If possible, compare it with that in a 1911 of known, current, reliability. If there's any doubt, you'd do well to replace the ejector as well.

Best,
Johnny Guest