What will this AR15 be classified as?

[jbrannon54]

Hey guys. I need some info. The rifle is not built yet, but if I had an upper for my AR that had a 10.5 inch barrel with a vertical fore grip on it, the lower with an extending stock on it, and an overall length, with the stock extended fully, of 28 inches (over the 26 inch overall length mark), what would my rifle be classified as? The lower I would put on it was on a civilian force arms Xena 15 that was a rifle, so I guess it would be classified as a rifle lower. But would this weapon be a pistol? SBR? Rifle? I am stumped and need some help. Thanks!

[kozak6]

It started as a rifle. Once the barrel length goes under 16" or overall length under 26", it's an SBR.

[rickyrick]

Build it with a shoulder stock, it's a rifle. Like the above poster said, go under 16" barrel and you'll have to SBR it first. The guys in the NFA section can help you with that. Just don't make it into an SBR until you've completed the legal process

[jbrannon54]

So even though the overall length would be 28 inches, it would still be an SBR?

[Mobuck]

Rifle MUST have a barrel over 16".

[rickyrick]

Yes, because you are using a 10.5" barrel

[jbrannon54]

Alright so when does the whole "overall 26 inch length" come into play then?

[kozak6]

"Other" firearms, like an AR pistol, factory PGO shotguns, or a 1919A4.

[jbrannon54]

Alright then. So if I put a pistol lower on it, would the vertical fore grip be legal or illegal?

[Sharkbite]

No VFG allowed on a pistol. Angled foregrip, yes. Vertical, no

If you start with a stripped lower. Its neither a rifle or a pistol. It 4473's as an "Other". At that point its just a receiver. State law may dictate beyond that.

In my state its a receiver until i build it into one or the other. I build ALL my lowers into pistols first. I can then LEGALLY convert it into a rifle and BACK into a pistol whenever i want.

If you build it into a Rifle FIRST it must stay a rifle always.

You can form 1 and turn either one into an SBR.

[dakota.potts]

A Firearm (not pistol, not toggle) intended to be fired from the hand (never had a stock on it) with an overall length of 26"+ has no barrel length restrictions or vertical fore grip restrictions. This is how Mossberg cruisers with a sub 18" barrel are legal. For a more relevant example, look at Franklin Armory who builds them in the exact set up described

[Sharkbite]

The lower I would put on it was on a civilian force arms Xena 15 that was a RIFLE,

That ends the discussion right there. That gun was built as a Rifle. It will always be a rifle. Your only option to change it would be to do a Form 1, pay the $200 Tax. Wait for approval and build it into an SBR (or AOW, but why do that?)

The good news is stripped lowers are cheap. Buy one of those and build a pistol

[TMD]

What will this AR15 be classified as?

A felony without a tax stamp

[dakota.potts]

Correct, one that is built as a rifle cannot then be converted to a "firearm".

However, a stripped lower can be built to the configuration you state as a "firearm". A pistol would work also.

[Theohazard]

Originally Posted by jbrannon54

Alright so when does the whole "overall 26 inch length" come into play then?

I don't think anyone addressed this question yet. In order to be a regular rifle and not an SBR, it needs to have a barrel at least 16 inches in length and have an overall length of at least 26 inches.

Your proposed build would meet the 26" overall length requirement, but it needs to also meet the 16" barrel requirement to avoid being an SBR, which it doesn't.

The federal law defining SBRs is found in 18 USC 921 (a)(8):

The term “short-barreled rifle” means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.

[doofus47]

"Awesome"

(someone had to say it....)
But I agree with the other posters that you should definitely get a NFA tax stamp before build if you want short barrel rifle.

[dakota.potts]

26" also comes into play if you want to build a "firearm" which you described (not a pistol, not a rifle) but for which you could not build on your rifle receiver and would need a new one.

[MoBart]

If the barrel of a single projectile weapon is less then 16" and it has a stock it is by ATFE definition it is an SBR or short barrled rifle

[tahunua001]

it would be classified as a SBR, needs a tax stamp.

[Ozzieman]

Rifle MUST have a barrel over 16".
The barrel can be under 16 inches as long as you add something like a flash suppressor and its welded on and its then over 16 inches.

[Theohazard]

Originally Posted by Ozzieman

The barrel can be under 16 inches as long as you add something like a flash suppressor and its welded on and its then over 16 inches.

As long as we're getting into the details of barrel length, here are the actual ATF regulations:

Originally Posted by ATF

The ATF procedure for measuring barrel length is to measure from the closed bolt (or breech-face) to the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device. Permanent methods of attachment include full-fusion gas or electric steel-seam welding, high-temperature (1100°F) silver soldering, or blind pinning with the pin head welded over. Barrels are measured by inserting a dowel rod into the barrel until the rod stops against the bolt or breech-face. The rod is then marked at the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device, withdrawn from the barrel, and measured.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/at...ter-2/download

[Ozzieman]

Thanks Theohazard
And one thing to add, it was by far the worst AR I have ever owned or fired.