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Old November 25, 2008, 01:50 AM   #26
redwing 40
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The .223 Rem. is not legal here in Wyoming. Some of the states that border us allow the .223 Rem for big game. I think it would be OK in Texas where the deer are very small. I would not want to shoot big Mule Deer with .224 . That said, if its legal where you live its your choice.
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Old November 25, 2008, 03:20 AM   #27
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A .223 will kill a deer. It will kill an elephant. If pressed for food, I'd use it on a deer. For the life of me, I can't figure out why someone would use it as a first choice for deer, or hog. Why?
How about the dang AR rifles are so expensive (especially after good glass) and someone wants it before the next gun-ban they can't afford a name your large cartride bolt action so the AR is performing double duty.


It will take a deer and yes there is definatly better out there.

I think no matter what you choose to use, this is good advise.

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Personally, I would, but I would have the pre-set notion that unless I had a perfect shot, the deer walks.
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Old November 25, 2008, 08:29 PM   #28
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I'm a new AR owner but am concerned if this is an ethical load for deer.
I don't think there's enough fudge factor in 68 grains. Now for coyote an expanding .223 works fine, but a coyote is a lot skinner and thinner than a deer. For deer my personal minimum is a .243 bullet weighing 100 grains and my preferred bullet is 6.5mm and 120 grains, both of which work for coyotes as well.
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Old November 25, 2008, 10:02 PM   #29
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Can use .223 but don't

Just because you can kill it with a .223 doesn't mean you will.I've killed deer with a .223 Mini-14. Possible but don't recommend it, took a shoulder to shoulder heart shot to accomplish that and it still ran approx. 50 yards. Don't think less than a .243 or .270 is advisable. I use a Remington .30-06. and am thinking about another .30-06 Rem. or .270 Savage. Be humane, make sure your bullet puts the deer down. Just because you can kill it with a .223 doesn't mean you will.
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Old November 28, 2008, 01:36 AM   #30
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I have a lot of experience at shooting deer with .223's. I'm a Deputy Sheriff in Michigan and frequently have to dispatch wounded deer that are hit by cars. I carry a Bushmaster M-4 with a 14.5" barrel. We are restricted to 55 gr bullets and we've carried SP's and now we carry ballistic tips.
We have really big deer here in southern Michigan, where I live. Deer over 200 lbs are not uncommon at all. If I can get really close to them, I just use my S&W M&P 45 and that does them in real quick as long as they're hit in the head. But what most often is the case is that the deer see you coming and they try to drag themselves away from you and I can't get any closer than 35-40 yds. In those cases I have to use the rifle. I'll just say that the .223 is lousy against deer, especially from the shorter barrel of my M-4. I've had rounds ricochet off of their heads and I've had to walk behind deer while continuously shooting them in the torso area as they continue to try and crawl away. It's hardly ever a one-shot affair.
When we carried Remington 870 12 gauges, I'd pop them with a slug or Buck Shot and it was over very quick.
If I could get away with it, I'd carry my Winchester model 94 Trapper in 30-30 for situations like that.
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Old November 28, 2008, 02:19 AM   #31
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Right weapon for the right purpose

I have been hunting for 40 years and rarely do I use more than one bullet a year. I have loads I toss because of the years they have been on the shelf. So when I take exception, I do so because I see something a little different.

As for using an AR-15 or any semi automatic of any caliber for that matter, I am a purest. You wouldn't be allowed on my acreage or my neighbors. Doesn't matter how skilled you are. There should never be the need for that much over kill.

Now for my main concern for writing this piece. I own and have hunted with my 30-06 and 270 for the Columbian Blacktail here in Oregon. The blacktail is on average only slightly larger than the whitetail. But for all practical purposes they are comparable. I found both of these calibers to be far more than what I needed for a 100 to 200 yard shot. And since most of my shots fell between 50 to 100 yards, I went looking. I bought a 243 three years back and have found it to have the ideal power for deer of this size.

I use my 30-30 or 270 when I hunted in Utah as the Mule deer are much larger. I liked the 30-30 over the 270 only for ease of movement in the brush. But for range, the 270 or -06 were better. My father used a 308 Savage.

Now when it comes to elk, the .270 is considered a light load. Especially at 200+ yards. But it will do the job if the shot is right. As will any caliber if you hit the right spot. But most of these blogs were stated because we don't always hit the perfect shot. So then you want the knockdown power of the larger caliber.

But my comment is I am secure enough in my manhood to hunt with a 243. My 92 year old mother-in-law hunts with a 257 Roberts. So we are about equal. ha ha

Okay, we stopped her from hunting four years ago. However, it is loaded and in the gun case should she ever want to use it again. I just wouldn't want to be the revenue man coming onto the property anytime she is out and about with a loaded anything.

P.S. I still have remaining cartridges from the first box I purchased when I bought the .243 three years ago.
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Old November 28, 2008, 09:50 AM   #32
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shoot the deer behind the shoulder thru the lungs, NEVER IN THE NECK OR ASS OR ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE CHEST CAVITY That goes for ALL calibers, all you deer wounders keep shootn em in the neck and ass and keep giving hunters a bad name..
Really? 'Round here it's the hunters that trash the place, leave campfires burning after they leave and waste the carcass.

A neck shot is a check mate move. I've helped others trail deer from botched heart/lung shots. I remember on miserable trail with corn, grass and other rumen instead of blood. We never found that deer.

Tell you what; I'll refrain from telling you where to shoot if you'll return the favor.
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Old November 30, 2008, 09:45 PM   #33
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Never personally heard of intentionally going for the neck shot. Always been taught, by dnr here in west virginia (hunter safety class when i was younger) to go for the heart/lung shot. Never had them go very far as long as you get them in the heart or lungs. My hunting buddies and i usually poke fun at the people that neck shoot them and junk the neck meat and make the whole mess look aweful. You could shoot it in the neck, not hit the spine or any vital blood vessels and cause the deer to live for days before dying.
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Old November 30, 2008, 09:50 PM   #34
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You could shoot it in the neck, not hit the spine or any vital blood vessels and cause the deer to live for days before dying.
You can gut shoot a deer with the same results. Meat loss is minimal with the neck shot. Feel free to poke fun. Meanwhile, I'll poke deer in the neck.
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Old December 1, 2008, 10:36 AM   #35
Art Eatman
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hillbillyshooter, check my post #23. Odds are, 3/4 of the deer I've killed were from neck shots. Tagged bucks, I'm guessing forty-some-odd. Plus some does and then a culling program I did on the old family ranch outside of Austin...
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Old December 4, 2008, 12:27 PM   #36
hillbillyshooter
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Just saying that i've never heard proponents of the neck shot before, thats all. Yeah, if you gut shoot it it can also live for days. I just consider the heart/lung to be a larger target. Obviously not many intentionally gut shoot deer either. As far as i know, too, there is more meat lost in the neck shot than in a well placed heart/lung. I can understand if you don't want to wait for the animal to quarter before you shoot, but i'm just more comfortable going with the heart/lung. To each there own, i'm not trying to act like my way is better, just my preference. Does i can understand shooting in the neck more, but wouldn't want to ruin the mount on a nice buck by going to far forward. My experiences also come from WV, were the usual shot is approx. 50 yards, almost never 100+ yards, so its a bit easier to make the heart/lung with precision.
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Old December 4, 2008, 12:50 PM   #37
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I am more apt to make a heart/lung shot early in the day. If the shot is near last light I am more likely to consider the neck shot or just packing myself out of the woods without a prize. There is no tracking involved in a CNS shot. The animal drops dead. I favor the heart/lung shot 3 out of 4 times. I never shoot any shot unless I can call my shot. If I have a steady rest, capable rifle and the deer is giving me a long window when he/she is surveying the landscape I am happy to consider the neck. Meat loss is minimal compared to a shoulder (usually it's the opposite shoulder that's damaged); 7mm hole going in and a golf ball sized exit wound - 3-4 ounces of meat at the most. I've made several H/L shots where a ballistic tip has hit a rib and shattered the bullet. Even a perfectly launced H/L shot has ruptured the stomach. I don't use ballistic tips any more because of that.
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Old December 4, 2008, 03:16 PM   #38
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I am curious where it is legal to hunt deer with a .223? I live in Colorado and I believe that the minimum is .243.
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Old December 4, 2008, 03:56 PM   #39
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Topthis... in Texas, as long as it's centerfire, it's legal for deer...
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Old December 4, 2008, 05:12 PM   #40
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I am quite sure it is legal in Florida also.
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Old December 4, 2008, 06:28 PM   #41
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Legal

Legal in NC and loads of fun to shoot.
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Old December 4, 2008, 11:30 PM   #42
hillbillyshooter
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WV

As long as it is a centerfire rifle, it is legal here.
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Old December 5, 2008, 12:08 AM   #43
Dr. Strangelove
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GA

From the GA regulation book:

Quote:
DEER & BEAR FIREARMS: Modern Rifles
and Handguns: Centerfire Only, .22-cal. or larger
with expanding bullets.

Shotguns: 20-gauge or larger loaded with slugs
or buckshot. Buckshot is not allowed on WMAs,
unless otherwise specified.

Muzzleloaders: .44-cal. or larger, or
muzzleloading shotguns 20 gauge or larger.
Scopes are legal.

Primitive Weapons: Legal weapons during
primitive weapons season include crossbows,
bow and arrow, and muzzleloading firearm.
Scopes are legal.

TURKEY FIREARMS: Shotguns with No. 2 or
smaller shot and any muzzleloading firearm.
Interesting, as this technically means a Raven Arms .25acp is now a legal deer pistol as long as you use expanding bullets....I guess they're just hoping people will use good sense.

By the way, Topthis, .243 Win used to be the effective minimum here in GA. There was a formula of a certain amount foot pounds of energy at such & such a distance, but they did away with all that sometime while I was living out of state and now pretty much anything except rimfire is legal for deer. Crossbows used to be only for the handicapped but now are also legal. It makes things easier on everbody but the deer, I guess.

Last edited by Dr. Strangelove; December 5, 2008 at 12:18 AM.
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Old December 5, 2008, 12:31 AM   #44
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shoot the deer behind the shoulder thru the lungs, NEVER IN THE NECK OR ASS OR ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE CHEST CAVITY That goes for ALL calibers,
Yep, we all know that. And we all hunt in the real world, too. A deer often doesn't just stand there, perfectly still, perfectly broadside, with a perfect neon bullseye floating right between it's ribs, waiting for you to shoot right there, perfectly on the spot. Newsflash: sometimes the deer will be angled a little bit away or towards you, or facing you, or it'll have a big rib or shoulder bone that you just happen to hit, or it'll move right at the instant that you shoot, or you'll hiccup/cough right when you pull the trigger, or a gust of wind will suddenly blow when you take the shot and move your muzzle/treestand, or your trigger finger will be numb from the -20 degree temp that day, or, or, or, or...a million reasons that you might not take a perfect (or even excellent shot) at a deer. And when that happens, it is nice to shoot a caliber that propels a heavier bullet almost as fast as the .223. Like a .243, or a .270, or a .308 Winchester (which is what the really smart hunters use ), or even a .30-'06. So that you can smash through bone, penetrate through a thick part, put a hurtin' on the non-vitals, almost every time.

Why does this question keep coming up? If you want an increased chance of wounding a deer, then use the .223. Have fun tracking it for miles, and good luck finding it.
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Old December 5, 2008, 09:13 AM   #45
Art Eatman
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But, Fremmer! If you shoot 'em in the white spot with a .223, you don't have to track! (My first deer, a patient old doe, was killed that way via a .222. I still recall my uncle's instruction as I aimed--and aimed--and aimed: "Dammit! Shoot the ol' bitch!")
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Old December 5, 2008, 09:45 AM   #46
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Art, Are you talking about the "Texas Heart Shot"?

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Old December 5, 2008, 12:22 PM   #47
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Necks are A great Place

Art, don't you read the posts? Surely after killing all those deer with A 223 cal. you should realize that's not near enough gun, or is it? Seriously it is A thrill to drop them in their Tracks with A 222,223 or 22-250 cal. isn't it? I'm glad I finally learn to do that after all those years using the Big Bangers.
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Old December 5, 2008, 05:09 PM   #48
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USE IT

I use 65gr steel hollow points.

I shot a deer with one and it absolutely TORE IT APART. I could not believe the internal damage it did to the deer. The shot was in the ribs, SHATTERED them and oblitterated the lungs. It fell over and tried to get up, so I shot it 2 more times to put it out of its misery and it just croaked.

I shot it with an AR-15, 16" barrel. I have a fixed 6x scope. with open sights under the scope.

Every single shot was amazing...the exit wounds were over an inch wide.

It isnt my PRIMARY rifle, but it is all I had at the time and it worked.

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Old December 5, 2008, 05:39 PM   #49
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You are fine shooting a .223 if you keep your shots under 100yds and shoot Noseler Partitions. Be certain your .223 has the barrel twist to handle a 68gr bullet as well.
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Old December 5, 2008, 08:07 PM   #50
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Every single shot was amazing...the exit wounds were over an inch wide.
I'm not sure I'd find that amazing when compared to more energetic rounds that leave 3-4" exit. I guess for a .223 that's much better than one that grenades in the first inch or so.
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