The Freedom Group seems to have the reverse midas touch

[Geezerbiker]

The news has leaked out that there will be no more H&R single shot rifles next year. It seems everything they touch turns to manure...

One thing for certain, they will never see one more cent of my money... Here's the list of great companies they're taking down...

REMINGTON
BUSHMASTER
REMINGTON MILITARY
REMINGTON LE
MARLIN FIREARMS
H&R 1871
DAKOTA ARMS
TAPCO
DPMS / Panther Arms
PARKER GUNMAKERS
BARNES BULLETS
ADVANCED ARMAMENT
PARA USA
REMINGTON PMPD
MOUNTAIN KHAKIS
REMINGTON 1816

[Sevens]

Ugh, I hate to generalize.

But I agree with you. I was never a fan of Remington ______, (I mean, their guns, their ammo, their components) but I always had respect for Remington and that has withered away lately. There's no way that the corporate conglomerate hasn't had a large hand (or the largest hand) in decline of these products.

[Doyle]

The H&R Handi Rifle was never a great firearm to begin with. It was cheap and generally functional - no more.

[aarondhgraham]

The H&R Handi Rifle was never a great firearm to begin with. It was cheap and generally functional - no more.

You say that as if it were a bad thing.

Sometimes (many times in my life),,,
That's all a person could afford to purchase,,,
And they are great for people who like different cartridges.

You don't have to spend a fortune to own a 30-30 or a 45-70 or a .22 for that matter.

I'll be sorry to see them go away.

Aarond

.

[Geezerbiker]

Actually they're very good rifles but some people that buy them never learn the ins and outs of how to use them and have accuracy problems. Most people don't know they shoot like crap if there's oil on the lock up mechanism but if it's dry, they shoot great. I have 5 of them and they're all good shooters.

I'm further PO'ed that they shut down the barrel accessory program without any notice. I had called and reserved a barrel, sent in my action only to have it refused because they had shut down the barrel offer without notice. This is bad form to say the least.

I've now heard they're massively laying off employees at Remington. The prices of Remington rifles are at an all time high when the quality is at an all time low...

Tony

[tote4570]

I really hope they dont mess up Barnes.

[barnbwt]

In the age of 150$ Hi-Points, 200$ bolt guns, and 400$ ARs/AKs, the Handi Rifle really wasn't all that cheap. It is also fairly limited in what it can do (which is a lot, but still not as much as something better made with a magazine) and far from the best choice ergonomically. Basically, they were the Hi Points of the Fudd world (which has subsequently gone by the wayside).

Always hate to lose a brand, but it's not like they were Ruger 1's or something. Were they even nicer than Baikal's?

Plenty of used beater single shots with wood stocks in pawn shops for cheap skates, anyways

As for the OP subject, it's worth mentioning that the shear number of brands and products are responsible for a lot of the corporate sclerosis that Remington is currently crippled by. It's hard enough to run an ammo company, when you're not also a rifle company, pistol company, five other rifle companies, a few ammo companies, bullet manufacturers, accessories maker, merchandise hawker, ad agency, importer, exporter, military supplier/contractor, R&D house, (formerly) silencer maker, and multinational corporation. No wonder they have no idea what they're doing

I think this corporate downsizing will be the best thing that's happened to Remington since their fall from preeminence. Fiasco's like the R51 and others basically show the company is incapable of bringing new products to market, the Marlin fiasco showed the company is incapable of restructuring successfully in its present state. There's likely been more dead wood than live for a long, long time (which is why it is odd Remington has been on such an acquisition-spree lately, but I'll chock that up to managerial denial of the situation), and it will have to be discarded before they can start growing properly again.

I'm most excited by the prospects a Remington power vacuum will have on the marketplace. Magpul or someone like that could well be the new preeminent commercial/military supplier within a decade, now that the Remington Sequoia has fallen and allowed the undergrowth some sunlight for a change. H&K may soon follow at the rate it's (been) going. That'd leave a mark on the industry, for sure.

TCB

[FrankenMauser]

Actually they're very good rifles but some people that buy them never learn the ins and outs of how to use them and have accuracy problems. Most people don't know they shoot like crap if there's oil on the lock up mechanism but if it's dry, they shoot great. I have 5 of them and they're all good shooters.

It isn't all about accuracy.
Have you purchased a new H&R since production was moved to Remington?

They're absolute crap, now.

I like the H&R single-shots. But, the Remington-built H&R that I own is the single biggest hunk of crap that I have seen in quite some time. It shoots ...okay... but fit and finish are horrendous, the crappy stock finish is WATER SOLUBLE, 50% of the screws were stripped from the factory (VERY common), the bore has so much tool chatter that it looks like corrugated pipe, and the scope base screw holes were drilled at an angle. (Had it not been for getting stuck with the rifle through the dirt bag dealer that I used, I would never have accepted the rifle.)

And every H&R that I've handled since Remington moved production to their facilities has been exactly the same. ...Not to mention all of the guys that got short-chambered .243s, long-chambered .30-06s and .35 Whelens, 20 ga shotguns with no chamber (never reamed), .500 S&Ws that tear themselves apart after 200 rounds, the hundreds of .30-30s that didn't get crowned, or all of the .444 Marlins that were chambered with a broken reamer...



Yep...
It's the people complaining about accuracy, that don't "take the time to learn the ins and outs" that killed the brand.....

[Goatwhiskers]

Don't panic yet. Remington is moving production to Huntsville, Al. in the near future, that may well be the reason for today's layoffs and stopping the extra barrel program. Kinda hard to have customer's guns in for service while moving operations. Maybe they will kill the Handi line, maybe not, but don't panic yet. Firearms companies are abandoning hostile states, so take a breath and wait and see. GW

[Geezerbiker]

I have a post Remington H&R .45-70 that's great. It's not as pretty as the .25-06 I have that was made in 2001 but it's a great shooting rifle. I only have 5 H&R's so I don't have enough to have gotten one with those problems.

I think it's very clear that not all their brands are going to Alabama. I'd also be very surprised if many of those that were laid off today were given the option to move with their job...

Tony

[jmr40]

There are hundreds of gun designs over the years that are no longer in production. Doesn't mean there was anything wrong with any of them. Just that something better came along that could be made cheaper.

Same with these rifles. No great loss IMO.

[FiveInADime]

Just wait until they give Marlin the big ugly axe. It's going to happen.

[Ibmikey]

Maybe all the "experts" will find the Handi Rifle without merit but my AAC Handi in 300 Blackout just took a 350# Texas Boar and did it with a 125 gr bullet and one shot. With a 16" barrel and threaded muzzle the rifle is anything but "crap" , easy to carry all day and a delight to shoot being as accurate as I can hold at 100 yards...just ask Mr. spot (the Hog I shot). But then I am no "expert".

[FrankenMauser]

Maybe all the "experts" will find the Handi Rifle without merit but my AAC Handi in 300 Blackout just took a 350# Texas Boar and did it with a 125 gr bullet and one shot. With a 16" barrel and threaded muzzle the rifle is anything but "crap" , easy to carry all day and a delight to shoot being as accurate as I can hold at 100 yards...just ask Mr. spot (the Hog I shot). But then I am no "expert".

My .444 Marlin Handi-Rifle has done its far share of filling the freezer, as well. It is not, however, a good rifle - nor worth the current price tag.

It is a mere shadow of what Handi-Rifles once were, and it isn't even one of the rifles that had major barrel/chamber issues. ...It was a "good" one that slipped through the cracks after Remington took over.


Handi-Rifles are great. I love them.
REMINGTON Handi-Rifles are trash. They're a "price point" product that has been whittled away to an ugly, poorly-finished, poorly-fitted lump of metal and 'pallet wood', with every manufacturing shortcut possible.

For Pete's sake, the wood finish is WATER SOLUBLE.

Just because it can get the job done does not mean it is a good product. If that were true, Harbor Freight would have cornered the tool market with their Chinese trash and put all of the higher end brands out of business.

[Ibmikey]

My 45-70 Handi Rifle is twenty plus years old and no better or less quality than the newer (AAC edition, year made unk) with the exception the 300 has synthetic stock and forearm. My heavy barrel .223 will put just about every round in the same hole given decent ammo, none of the three are high polish hand fitted works of art but each performs as I desired when acquiring same. I just love those of us who condem the whole because of a bias toward a company or a country or other entity. I wonder what those who ragged on Japanese products are saying about the Browning and Winchester rifles of today? But I digress, I know not what conglomerate owned the production facility when my Handi Rifles were made, probably three different ones but the rifles made are mine and built as well as the purchase price would dictate, and they " do the job" that I wish to have them do just as well as if they were not "junk".
End of comments as changing other's attitudes is not my intent. Bye

[Huffmanite]

FWIW, visited the Marlin Forum yesterday and read a recent post by a gent that wrote after two phone calls to Remington/Marlin inquiring about the availability of the Marlin XL/XS, he was told production of them had been ended, leaving the Remington 783 as their only Savage barrel nut like lower priced rifle.

[reynolds357]

It is no surprise that freedom group is not successful.

[chiefr]

The H&R Handi Rifle was never a great firearm to begin with. It was cheap and generally functional - no more

I see enough of these at the range and have to agree. Lousy groups appear to be normal. I have also observed FTFs due to light firing pin strikes.

[zincwarrior]

It appears to me the Freedom group is run by a bunch of liberal Democrats. Not being sarcastic or argumentative by that statement, but just stating it how I see it. The fact that people with anti-gun leaning bias have problems being successful in the gun industry is really of no surprise to me.

Then why would they buy gun companies? Thats not a logical statement.

[Paul B.]

"Then why would they buy gun companies? Thats not a logical statement."

I'm sure everyone remebers Tasco scopes. Started out more or less as cheap junk be ended up being a rather decent buy for a low end scope. Then the founder/CEO dies and some corporation took over and literally raped the company to death and Tasco scopes foundered and the corporation grabbed a big tax write off from what I heard. Could it be that Freedom Corp. is engineering the same type deal where the kill two birds with one stone? You know, destrom several gun companies and get tax write offs. Wouldn't ssurprise me one bit if it came out their bean counters had is all worked out before they even acquired Remington and the others. Not being privy to all the details it's just what my suspicious mind has come up with based on what I've heard.
Paul B.

[zincwarrior]

Equity investments, especially those of nature, often fail.

If you're an anti gun liberal whatever, its not a coherent strategy to invest in a company to lose your money, especially intentionally.

Occam's razor says its better to assume incompetence and greed than conspiracy.

[zincwarrior]

Having said that, the recent pistol fiasco has been pretty offputting to me. There's no reason to put that messed up of a product out to market.

[RIDE-RED 350r]

Well this really SUCKS!

I was not aware that Remington took over the Handi-Rifle line as well. I knew about the Marlin and Bushmaster debacle.. What a shame...

I live only about 1 hr from Ilion and as an upstate NYer, it is sad to see my fellow citizens put out of good jobs thanks to an aggressive anti-2nd agenda my state is pushing. And that is EXACTLY why it's happening, I don't care what anyone says!

I have an older 700 ADL, nothing fancy or special..but it is a tack driver and has put alot of deer meat in our freezer. It has been utterly reliable, a great little workhorse that does what I need it to do with more precision than I can contribute to as the human factor. Such a shame to see the downfall of a company that used to make such good products. I hope the move to AL spurs a rebirth of quality in Remington similar to the how it has gone for Winchester and FN in SC....

I was looking into getting a 22/410 Handi-Rifle combo for my 10 year old son for Christmas this year... I guess that's out now.

[Colorado Redneck]

I tried to Google up information about what the OP referred to, but didn't find anything. Can anybody kindly tell us what segment of Remington will be impacted? I have quit on Remington firearms, but still use their primers and brass. Is the components part of the corporation going to go defunct or will it continue business as usual?

Thanks!

[Geezerbiker]

I can't reveal my source but I don't think or at least I haven't heard anything about Remington closing ammo plants.

Tony