|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Search | Today's Posts | Mark Forums Read |
View Poll Results: Do you think this video should be promoted to new shooters? | |||
Yes | 11 | 26.83% | |
No | 25 | 60.98% | |
Maybe | 5 | 12.20% | |
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
June 4, 2012, 02:33 PM | #26 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 8, 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,786
|
The information regarding a proper fit of a gun to the hand was decent, and supported by good examples, but perhaps not emphasized as much as it should have been given that it was the subject of the video. The gun handling problems that are discussed above, and the ballistics discussion (saying that there is no practical difference between .380, 9 mm, and .38 special) cause me to vote no fairly emphatically. You just can't give such erroneous information and bad examples to beginners.
|
June 4, 2012, 10:56 PM | #27 | |||||||||
Junior member
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Posts: 9,995
|
I might be on a bit of a crusade about this. And here is why:
From a new shooter: Quote:
Quote:
SO, what this video is is an informational video, I won't call it training anymore, distributed by an AUTHORITY figure in a 2A rights group to a large number of very inexperienced shooters that some experienced instructors I would easily refer to as experts in the field, say teaches a lot of bad habits(and I agree). Along with incorrect information. My original response to them was the video needed to be revised. The process of multiple versions could be as informative for new shooters as the final product. I have no expectation of anyone getting all that info right without some preparation, but further frustrating is the response of those involved to the criticism. Both continue to stand by EVERYTHING in the video. From the gun handling to the false information. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
And then the scariest part: Quote:
Docpadds, are you the shop owner? I really would like a better video to link to if anyone has one. Despite the antagonizing suggestion that I produce my own version, I realize I am not qualified to do so. For starters i know NOTHING about fit beyond shoot 400 rounds through a gun in one range session and you will know if it fits or not. I linked to coneredcat. I wish it wasn't so pink like a lady smith. Video really might be a worth while update for the site. Most in my generation won't read through pages of information. I personally hate wading through youtube video, but most my age and younger seem to love them. So yes, I am on a bit of a crusade about what I think is some really bad information being given out by an authority figure in a 2A organization to a bunch of people who won't know they need to find someone with more knowledge to get more detailed/clearer/correct explanations, b/c they assume it to be correct due to the source. Last edited by johnwilliamson062; June 4, 2012 at 11:21 PM. |
|||||||||
June 5, 2012, 12:43 AM | #28 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 8, 2009
Posts: 125
|
So even though I have said there could be improvements, there are better ways to say something, that its not a full on training video and was a spur of the moment expedited video made at the shop by a third party etc..... I don't believe I have been completely black and white on this because i am not perfect and for sure not a TV star or somebody used to the camera and have never said so.
Yes I am the store owner, its in my sig line Frankly I am doing my best to follow this up and answer to it, am not afraid of criticism, however being a small business owner is taking priority. Oh well, keep going and posting it all over, I will try and be available to answer folks as i can. |
June 5, 2012, 01:05 AM | #29 | |
Staff
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 9,471
|
Quote:
Best safety practices include personally visually verifying the condition of the gun by checking the magazine well and opening the slide to check the chamber (or opening the cylinder on a revolver) every time you take the gun in your hand and strict muzzle discipline. If you want to know my qualifications for that opinion, please check my profile. As I mentioned earlier, when beginners see improper gun handling, they don't know any better and will believe it is acceptable behavior. But it is not. I know from experience how difficult it can be to start out novices on the right foot. It's simply that guns are foreign objects to them, and they tend to be very awkward with them at the beginning. And they have too much to think about. But I believe that the first order of business teaching beginners must be inculcating proper safety practices. These practices are not negotiable. And laying a good foundation requires constant reinforcement. Part of that comes from watching experienced instructors always modeling correct practices -- reinforcing that safety is not just for beginners but is also a sign of an experience and accomplished shooter. We show that we take it seriously, so the students are more inclined to also take it seriously. Then there's guiding and correcting students in their gun handling. There is so much new on their minds, that we need to appropriately and consistently remind them. That's how good habits get started. I teach monthly NRA Basic Handgun classes with a group of other NRA certified instructors. We limit class size to 12 students, and usually have five to seven instructors at the class. So students get a lot of individual attention and have a lot of opportunity to handle guns under direct supervision. We strictly model best safety practices in our gun handling, and we guide the students to do the same. Probably 85% to 90% of students had never fired a gun before the class. Some 30% + are women. The idea of a video is good. It doesn't have to be a professionally done extravaganza with first class production values. There's nothing wrong with it being a little rough or even amateurish. But to have value, the gun handling must be correct.
__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper Last edited by Frank Ettin; June 5, 2012 at 01:47 PM. Reason: correct typo |
|
June 5, 2012, 07:44 PM | #30 | |
Junior member
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Posts: 9,995
|
so the final response was to ban me from the page.
Good luck to the new shooters. Nothing I can say/do about it now, so I am off the hook. Quote:
"You want to come by and have a new shooter try out a few guns? You want to videotape it? Sure, anything I can do to help out." I know you have been generous with your support in the past. Neither you nor Jessica look all that comfortable on video, so I am sure neither of you were too excited about the idea in the first place. If you aren't comfortable in such a situation it is going to affect what you say and how you say it. If you take half the time with your average customer as you did with "Jessica" you are the best shop in Columbus and in the running for the state as far as customer service. I see firearms handling mistakes like that by staff in EVERY gun shop I have ever been in. I have received much worse information from your competitors. I have been outright ignored in several of their shops when there were idle employees. If I had been in a shop and seen this I would not have thought twice about it, but on a video through an organizational distribution channel it won't work. This isn't the same as an individual posting it on their own page. The simple fact is that almost no single person, no matter how much of an expert can make a video like this that isn't riddled with mistakes, especially in a single take. When you see good professional videos I am sure they use three or four very experienced instructors who look over each others segments and critique it, then re-shoot it over and over until they are happy with it. Last edited by johnwilliamson062; June 5, 2012 at 07:55 PM. |
|
June 5, 2012, 08:41 PM | #31 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 8, 2009
Posts: 125
|
Sorry to hear that.
You're welcome in the shop anytime, and yes if the situation demands we will spend that time with the customer. Indeed this has proved to be the best way we have garnered loyal good customers, bit it does cut into my available downtime for forums etc. Come on in sometime, we are easy to find. |
June 5, 2012, 10:38 PM | #32 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 12, 2010
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 447
|
As far as the interaction goes, besides being a "training" video, i see nothing out of the ordinary for gun store interactions. Questions were asked, answered, etc., and I can see where gun sales are concerned, it is a gun, but in a sales shop it is primarily a sale. Shops are typically very lenient as far as gun handling goes, I browse all the time for entertainment, and they typically check the gun as they first take it out of the display, and then you damn near have to point it in their face before they will say anything about safety, because the sale is the primary objective.
As far as safety goes, if I am in a store, I keep an eye out for guns in my direction, and will correct anyone if I am swept, and I personally keep safety practices in mind. Double at a range. |
June 6, 2012, 10:31 PM | #33 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 29, 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 6,126
|
Just to add to my previous post, I don't have any criticism of anyone in the video. This isn't a training tape and the people in it did not intend that it be so.
There are some issues with gun handling, but stuff happens, I'm sure the people involved wouldn't be pointing guns at each other if they had the time to work things out. Stuff happens to even the best folks. My issue with the tape is using it as a training video, as a stand alone piece. |
June 7, 2012, 08:42 PM | #34 |
Junior member
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Posts: 9,995
|
When you post anything on youtube it is going out to the general public. Yes, there are some absolutely horrible videos on youtube that show the worst of not only the firearms community, but also every other community in the modern world. It doesn't change the fact that you are still sending information out to the globe.
I am rethinking making the video. I have a great resource of experts here. I could do it in multiple sessions, first post it here and have you people tear it apart, then re-shoot it. Over and over again until it was right. It could turn out to be quite a lot of knowledge. I have to see about how up to date my video editing is. I think it is about a decade behind the times. |
June 9, 2012, 12:34 AM | #35 |
Junior member
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Posts: 9,995
|
I have been informed the link was removed.
|
June 10, 2012, 02:25 PM | #36 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 22, 2007
Location: The shores of Lake Huron
Posts: 4,783
|
I would certainly not call this a training video due to mistakes that have already been discussed. I would however, call it valuable for the simple fact that it presents current guns with close-ups of a female hand holding it. What I would add to that would be naming the gun's maker and model, and adding several more. If women saw this, they would already have an inkling of what they wanted to try out at their own local rental/range, instead of being bombarded with choices at a busy counter where you sometimes feel you're being pressured.
__________________
Stevie-Ray Join the NRA/ILA I am the weapon; my gun is a tool. It's regrettable that with some people those descriptors are reversed. |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|