Low point of impact

[was123]

I am a long time rifle shooter but have recently ventured into pistol shooting. I purchased a Springfield XD40 and currently have about about 400 rounds through it. So far the gun has functioned flawlessly. My only problem is that the point of impact is generally low and slightly left when I shoot. When my son shoots, he does not have this problem. I am sure this is probably a grip issue but am a little perplexed. Any thoughts from the more experienced pistol shooters. Thanks in advance.

[Nnobby45]

I am sure this is probably a grip issue but am a little perplexed. Any thoughts from the more experienced pistol shooters. Thanks in advance.

HOW LOW? WHAT DISTANCE? Depending on your answers, the problem may be significant, or insignificant in a self defense pistol.

Sight picture is a more likely cause. Front sights with dots, for example, are designed for the dot to be used rather than the top of the sight. That elevates the front sight.

I've seen a lot of shooters who don't realize they're giving up when their brain says shoot. They don't keep the sight on the target until the shot breaks.
"jeez, they say. The sights were right there when I shot".

Perhaps the sights WERE there-- but not when the gun fired.


Follow through is accomplished by FOCUSING on the front sight. If you're concentrated on that, things will take care of themselves.

Experienced shooters also have lapses and quit the sight picture as soon as the brain says "shoot".




AND, sometimes the sight shoots low for us. Even if both shooters use the same sight picture, it's possible to see the sights differently do to the nature of the way the human eyes work.

Correcting for widage is easily accomplished by moving the sight in the direction you want bullet impact to move.

[was123]

I am not really concerned about the windage as this is very minor. At 10 yards, my point of impact is approximately 3" low.

[Nnobby45]

I am not really concerned about the windage as this is very minor. At 10 yards, my point of impact is approximately 3" low.

Well, that's not real bad, but lower than both of us would like. Only because your son has it shooting ok for him would I recommend reshooting and making sure you're not lowering the gun before the shot--especially since you're a new shooter. It's a similar syndrome as not following thru on the swing when wing shooting and missing behind the bird. The sight was ok when you "shot", but not when the gun went bang.

Make sure you aim with the center of the dot if your sight has one.

[oldkim]

Even though you are an experienced rifle shooter - transitioning to a pistol is sometimes a whole new mountain to conquer.

Do not move the sights - not on a new gun (unless you are absolutely sure).

The most common cause of shooting to the left/low is "anticipations or jerking" and/or flexing the grip hand just prior to the gun going off.

It's human nature to anticipate the recoil, therefore, just prior to the gun going off "you" anticipate the recoil and subconsciously tip the gun forward to "balance" the recoil.... problem is this movement moves your point of aim and point of impact (POA and POI).

Now the other is flexing the gripping hand to take up the recoil. Again, it's human nature to try to "absorb" the recoil, hence you tighten up on the grip to take the recoil - again this moves the POA and POI.

Try bench shooting the pistol. Take as much of you out of the equation as much as possible. Just like rifle shooting - benching works on the basics of sight and trigger.

To bench you need sandbags and a chair. Prop up the gun as much as possible - even prop up your hands. Sit so you are comfortable and can sight on the pistol. This should be a relaxed position. If you do it right you can almost walk away from the pistol and it should be resting - aimed at yoru target.

The grip should be the same throughout the shooting sequence. If you find yourself tightening up or moving the gun you are not doing it right.

So back to basics - grip, sight picture and trigger control.

Good luck to you.

[cerberus65]

http://shootingsafely.com/correction.jpg

I'd bet you're jerking (i.e. anticipating the recoil). Best way to tell for sure is to have someone load a dummy round somewhere in a mag and then you shoot it. When the gun takes a dive when you don't get a bang you'll know you found your problem.

[davem]

I think your problem is a fairly common one, the shots are off so the sights are adjusted but then- after a short bit, the shots are off again. You need to have an experienced pistol shooter fire the weapon and get the sights on target THEN you know the gun is okay. If your shooting is off you are some how pressing the trigger at an angle or your grip is wrong. Are you shooting one hand or two handed? A two handed hold should generally not be as much of a problem. Do you shoot with both hands? Try the other hand and where the shots hit. If what you are doing is for self defense- its never a bad idea to at least do a little shooting with the other hand in case the normal one is crippled in a gun fight.
Of course others may disagree. Been known to happen

[threegun]

Thats usually the results of not having a smooth trigger stroke.

Some folks try to time the sights as they pass and wobble around the bullseye. They will time a crossing and at the moment the sights are passing over the bull they snatch the trigger thinking it will put the shot on that point.

Understand that nobody alive can hold a gun perfectly still. Everyone's sights have some movement while we are completing the trigger press. The key is to minimize this movement as you press the trigger. You will never be perfectly on the x and your sights will bounce around a bit but if you can minimize this movement and pull the trigger releasing the striker as a surprise, you will hit the bull or damned close.

[g.willikers]

Another cause for shooting left and low is a too tight of a grip.
That binds up the trigger finger, causing the gun to do that as the trigger is yanked sideways.
Practice finding the grip that both allows a firm control of the gun, but leaves the trigger finger flexible to press the trigger straight back without sideways pressure.

[Frank Ettin]

In my experience most of the time shooting low is the result of dropping the muzzle when "forcing" the shot or anticipating the shot breaking.

The first and most important principle of accurate shooting is trigger control: a smooth press straight back on the trigger with only the trigger finger moving. Maintain your focus on the front sight as you press the trigger, increasing pressure on the trigger until the shot breaks. You don't try to predict exactly when the gun will go off, nor do you try to cause the shot to break at a particular moment. This is what Jeff Cooper called the "surprise break."

By keeping focus on the front sight and increasing pressure on the trigger until the gun essentially shoots itself, you don’t anticipate the shot breaking. But if you try to make the shot break at that one instant in time when everything seems steady and aligned, you usually wind up jerking the trigger.

Of course the gun will wobble some on the target. Try not to worry about the wobble and don’t worry about trying to keep the sight aligned on a single point. Just let the front sight be somewhere in a small, imaginary box in the center of the target.

So keep your focus on the front sight, press the trigger until the shot breaks; and keep your focus on the front sight all during recoil. That is follow through. Be aware of where on the target the front sight is as the shot breaks and watch the front sight lift off that point as the gun recoils – all the time maintaining focus on the front sight. Thus you can call your shots, i. e., know where the bullet will hit.

Think: front sight, press, surprise.

[m&p45acp10+1]

Most of the time when I see older guys shooting low that have very little recent experince with 3 dot sights it is usualy a combonation of problems that are easily solvable. Either they are looking over the top of the sights and focusing on the target, or pulling the muzzle down in an over exagerated follow through motion, similar to a flinch.
Solved by shooting from isocolese stance, and pretending the front dot is a laser. The shot will go where the front dot is, make sure it is level with the rear. Shot so one side or the other usualy mean either too much finger in the trigger guard, or pulling too hard and fast on the trigger. Sometimes both.

[Sigma 40 Blaster]

I worked with a friend at the range yesterday afternoon, he shoots his XDM 40 way low and left and follows the same pattern with his 1911, but not as exaggerated.

There's been a lot of good advice so far, I'll add a couple of things that others haven't covered.

1. Make sure the pad of your trigger finger is on the trigger. Make sure thats the ONLY part of your trigger finger that contacts the gun. I had a chronic low left problem caused by the bottom part of my finger pressing against the frame of the gun (part of finger between knuckle and first joint of finger).

2. Stance/balance plays a huge factor. Weaver, Chapman, Isosceles....pick your poison and be sure you are balanced and locked.

3. Shooting with a .22 LR mixed in with your higher caliber guns will help diagnose and tame any flinch you have developed.

My .01. Happy shooting.

[booker_t]

Work on trigger control and follow-through. Shoot slowly. Snap caps and dry fire (look up the pencil drill) are great practice tools. A .22LR pistol will really help you practice for a fraction of the price. You'll bring those groups into the X in no time.

I disagree with Sigma40, I don't think stance should matter whatsoever in your ability to put accurate, rapid shots on target. Unless you're shooting Olympic-style target competition, the last thing you want is to be "locked." What's important is repeatable trigger manipulation and front sight tracking, through the break and through the recoil, such that you visualize the front sight following a predictable pattern and it returns to your index without the use of muscle tension.

Don't get hung up on technique beyond the basics. Shooting a pistol is a relatively simple task. Let your body perform by being focused in the moment without a cluttered mind. It's non-intuitive, but my bet is that your son is doing this naturally, because he hasn't absorbed the wealth of knowledge you likely have becoming an accomplished rifle marksman.

Some suggested reading:

Practical Shooting: Beyond Fundamentals, Brian Enos
http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Shoo...9648679&sr=8-2

Or http://www.brianenos.com/store/books.html, he has a number of excellent books available. I would consider him my go-to author for pistolcraft.

Surgical Speed Shooting: How To Achieve High-Speed Marksmanship In A Gunfight, Andy Stafford
http://www.amazon.com/Surgical-Speed...9648722&sr=1-1

T.A.P.S. Tactical Application of Practical Shooting: Recognize the void in your tactical training, Patrick McNamara
http://www.amazon.com/P-S-Tactical-A...=1CL07PD0KL43J

Tactical Pistol Shooting: Your Guide to Tactics & Techniques that Work, Eric Lawrence
http://www.amazon.com/Tactical-Pisto...9648953&sr=1-1

The Gun Digest Book of Combat Handgunnery, Massad Ayoob
http://www.amazon.com/Gun-Digest-Boo.../ref=pd_cp_b_1

The Gun Digest Book Of Concealed Carry, Massad Ayoob
http://www.amazon.com/Gun-Digest-Boo.../ref=pd_cp_b_2

Stressfire, Vol. 1 (Gunfighting for Police: Advanced Tactics and Techniques), Massad Ayoob
http://www.amazon.com/Stressfire-Vol...u-wl_list-recs

[LordTio3]

Big +1 on "The Flinch". It is a common "low-left POI" cause, and I'd be willing to bet money that if it isn't the MOST common cause, it's in the top 2. Much like "The Shanks" popularized by the movie Tin Cup, Flinching is the handgun shooting equivalent to a common aiming problem caused by physical/mental factors that are often difficult to control. It just shows up, and is sometimes very difficult to overcome.

I've seen quite a few rifle shooters who are proficient and skilled in their craft pick up a handgun with one hand and throw fundamentals out of the window with the other. It is very easy to do. The discharge feels and sounds larger due to the smaller weapon size, it is a more concentrated combustion/propulsion process, the recoil isn't directed linearly, etc... There are a vast many reasons that Flinching becomes a natrual reaction to shooting handguns. Because of this, your body reacts negatively to the experience, causing you to naturally anticipate the snappier recoil by pushing low and away with the weapon immediately preceding a discharge. This causes a low-left POI.

If you are unsure that this is the cause, try and get ahold of a snap-cap or have a reloading friend pop a bullet in a spent casing for you. Have someone else load one of these in the middle of a magazine and start firing. If you are indeed anticipating the recoil, it will be imediately and umistakeably apparent when you reach the uncharged round.

Remedies for curing a Flinch come in as many flavors as hiccup cures. The only sure-fire way I know of curing your natural physical/mental reaction to a handheld explosion is the same as curing that gut-dropping feeling you get on a roller coaster the first time. Simply experience it more. The more you ride coasters, the less intense the physical feeling of weightlessness on a big drop. The more you shoot, the more accustomed to the strange experience you mind and body become. Pay close attention to everything you are doing while you do it, don't forget your fundamentals; but shooting more while concentrating on what you're doing will eventually clear that up.

I hope this helps you and let us know when you've ironed it out.

~LT

[Kmar40]

http://shootingsafely.com/correction.jpg

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