92 Winchester caliber question

James F. Walsh · November 30, 2002, 09:51 PM

I have a 92 Winchester which is marked ".38 W.C.F." . I have a couple of very old boxes of .38-40 cartridges which fit the action and operate correctly. Any ideas on why the factory marked the caliber in this manner?

C.R.Sam · November 30, 2002, 11:11 PM

Don't know why but...
38-40, 38 Winchester, and 38 WCF have, over the years, been all used to describe the same cartridge. And the same cartridge is used in handguns and rifles. Handgunners should use softer loads tho.

Sam

**Mike Irwin** · November 30, 2002, 11:12 PM

That's the old Winchester name for the .38-40.

It stands for Winchester Center Fire.

You'll see a variety of cartridges so named, including the .32 WCF (.32-20) and the .44 WCF (.44-40).

NG Bruce · November 30, 2002, 11:13 PM

One story goes something like this; Winchester Repeating Arms Company christened their M1873 cartridges the .44 WCF, .38 WCF, .32 WCF and later in the M1892 the .25-20 WCF (WCF meaning Winchester Central Fire). Other gun companies (such as Marlin) didn't want to include the "WCF" on their guns so they used the black powder method of marking cartridges, i.e., .44/40, .38/40, .32/20 and .25/20, meaning .44 caliber/ 40 grains black powder, etc. Now the .38/40 is different, some write it 38/.40 because it used 38 grains of blackpowder and the bullet was .401" in diameter. The short answer is that the .38 WCF and the .38/40 or 38/.40 are the same cartridge and are used interchangeably. NG Bruce

**Mike Irwin** · November 30, 2002, 11:14 PM

Ah, I see the old fart, er... CR Sam, beat me to the post by one minute...

What Sam's not telling you is that he purchased a Winchester 92, serial number 22, direct from the factory when he was getting ready to go west a few (hundred) years ago....

James F. Walsh · December 1, 2002, 08:41 PM

My 92 Winchester is serial number 1159. It is in great shape. All original. I'm considering using it on my next black bear hunt. It will be a thrill using a rifle that is 110 years old. I also have a 94 Winchester that was made in 1901. It has the factory fancy checkered stocks and nickel silver accents. It's also in fantastic original condition. It is in .32W.S., which is apparently 32-20.

NG Bruce · December 1, 2002, 09:03 PM

James, a Winchester M94 marked .32 WS would be a .32 Winchester Special (not a .32/20). The loaded round looks very similar to the 30/30 and is still fairly readily available a decent gun shops.

BEARMAN · December 1, 2002, 09:04 PM

James Walsh . To my knowledge any .32 WS Model 94 was .32 Winchester Special NOT 32-20 . The cartridges are quite differant. The 32-20 is capable of fitting in a Colt SA and the .32 Special is a deer cartridge.

Paul Fitz Jones · December 16, 2002, 08:23 PM

I have ownes dozens of 1892 winchesters including the largest caliber of 44/40 Saddle Ring Carbines. I walk my ranch regularly and run across a bear occassionally who wisely leaves me alone and I do the same. But if one came at me while I was carrying my 1895 Marlin 45/70 then I would stand my ground.

November 30, 2002, 09:51 PM	#1
James F. Walsh Member Join Date: November 30, 2002 Location: East Hampton, Connecticut Posts: 19	92 Winchester caliber question I have a 92 Winchester which is marked ".38 W.C.F." . I have a couple of very old boxes of .38-40 cartridges which fit the action and operate correctly. Any ideas on why the factory marked the caliber in this manner? __________________ Jim W.

November 30, 2002, 11:12 PM	#3
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	That's the old Winchester name for the .38-40. It stands for Winchester Center Fire. You'll see a variety of cartridges so named, including the .32 WCF (.32-20) and the .44 WCF (.44-40). __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

November 30, 2002, 11:14 PM	#5
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Ah, I see the old fart, er... CR Sam, beat me to the post by one minute... What Sam's not telling you is that he purchased a Winchester 92, serial number 22, direct from the factory when he was getting ready to go west a few (hundred) years ago.... __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

December 1, 2002, 08:41 PM	#6
James F. Walsh Member Join Date: November 30, 2002 Location: East Hampton, Connecticut Posts: 19	My 92 Winchester is serial number 1159. It is in great shape. All original. I'm considering using it on my next black bear hunt. It will be a thrill using a rifle that is 110 years old. I also have a 94 Winchester that was made in 1901. It has the factory fancy checkered stocks and nickel silver accents. It's also in fantastic original condition. It is in .32W.S., which is apparently 32-20. __________________ Jim W.

December 1, 2002, 09:04 PM	#8
BEARMAN Member Join Date: October 27, 2002 Posts: 19	.32 WS 94 WINCHESTER James Walsh . To my knowledge any .32 WS Model 94 was .32 Winchester Special NOT 32-20 . The cartridges are quite differant. The 32-20 is capable of fitting in a Colt SA and the .32 Special is a deer cartridge.

November 30, 2002, 11:11 PM	#2
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Don't know why but... 38-40, 38 Winchester, and 38 WCF have, over the years, been all used to describe the same cartridge. And the same cartridge is used in handguns and rifles. Handgunners should use softer loads tho. Sam

November 30, 2002, 11:13 PM	#4
NG Bruce Member Join Date: February 2, 2001 Location: Beaufort County NC Posts: 51	One story goes something like this; Winchester Repeating Arms Company christened their M1873 cartridges the .44 WCF, .38 WCF, .32 WCF and later in the M1892 the .25-20 WCF (WCF meaning Winchester Central Fire). Other gun companies (such as Marlin) didn't want to include the "WCF" on their guns so they used the black powder method of marking cartridges, i.e., .44/40, .38/40, .32/20 and .25/20, meaning .44 caliber/ 40 grains black powder, etc. Now the .38/40 is different, some write it 38/.40 because it used 38 grains of blackpowder and the bullet was .401" in diameter. The short answer is that the .38 WCF and the .38/40 or 38/.40 are the same cartridge and are used interchangeably. NG Bruce

December 1, 2002, 09:03 PM	#7
NG Bruce Member Join Date: February 2, 2001 Location: Beaufort County NC Posts: 51	James, a Winchester M94 marked .32 WS would be a .32 Winchester Special (not a .32/20). The loaded round looks very similar to the 30/30 and is still fairly readily available a decent gun shops.

December 16, 2002, 08:23 PM	#9
Paul Fitz Jones Senior Member Join Date: June 12, 2002 Location: Sacramento California Posts: 266	1892 Winchesters I have ownes dozens of 1892 winchesters including the largest caliber of 44/40 Saddle Ring Carbines. I walk my ranch regularly and run across a bear occassionally who wisely leaves me alone and I do the same. But if one came at me while I was carrying my 1895 Marlin 45/70 then I would stand my ground. __________________ Paul Fitz Jones Retired and Loving It Industry Manufacturer Competitor Police Firearms Instructor