IDPA: Walther P99AS or Glock 19?

MuthaGoose · August 25, 2006, 10:33 PM

I am looking to purchase my first (and only) "combat" 9mm. Seeing that I will only have one pistol, I want it to be capable of fast and accurate double-taps. I'm looking for rapid-acqusition sights, excellent controllability, and a short trigger with a fast reset. Basically, I am looking for a concealable, compact, stock service pistol chambered in 9mm that would make a good IDPA gun.

Having rented everything under the sun for the past year and a half, my favorites are the Glock 19 and the Walther P99AS.

Some doubts I have about the Walther: 1)Its different trigger types; while I am in love with the SA trigger I would think that the first DA shot would take some getting used to. Does only having one trigger to learn make a huge difference in performance? 2)I am slightly concerned that the location of its mag release. Do you feel it would be difficult to manipulate the release rapidly without changing my shooting grip.

With the Glock, I don't mind the 'fattiness' of its grip; but 1)it does not feel as comfortable as the Walther does. 2) While I feel the trigger is good, I don't find it nearly as nice as the Walther's.

I will be comparing the two side-by-side for my next range visit. Assuming both fit your hand, could you highlight which of the two you would pick to meet my criteria and why? I am looking for feedback from unbiased shooters who have shot both firearms enough to formulate an opinion.

Thanks ahead of time and I'm anxiously awaiting you responses!

CrustyFN · August 25, 2006, 10:58 PM

I haven't shot the Walther 9mm but have shot a Walther P99 40 and a Glock 17 9mm. I liked the Glock better. I don't own either but I do own a CZ 75. If you haven't tried that yet you might want to take a look at it. It is very comfortable and points well for me.
Rusty

MuthaGoose · August 25, 2006, 11:17 PM

I actually have gotten my mitts on a range rental CZ-75, unfortunately my large hands didn't take too well to the trigger. With a comfortable grip on the pistol-butt, my trigger finger rested too far into the trigger guard. Whenever I fired the gun it was more with the middle of my finger instead of the tip. That and I didn't take too well to the small-profile sights.

It's really a shame because the quality-for-value of the CZ is outstanding

CrustyFN · August 26, 2006, 12:36 PM

You definatly want a gun to be comfortable. You were asking about a DA trigger pull on the first shot. My CZ has a DA on the first shot. I was practiceing for my first IDPA match Thursday that I will shoot tomorrow and it will take some getting used to for me. But then with SA you would have to mess with a safety. I don't have enough experience with IDPA to know which would be better. Hopefully someone with more experience will jump in here and help us both out. Good luck with whichever you buy.
Rusty

Lycanthrope · August 26, 2006, 03:18 PM

You can get a Glock trigger down to about 3lbs cheaply and the aftermarket for them is large. They are an excellent IDPA gun.

Boondoggie · August 26, 2006, 07:25 PM

The Walther was actually the gun I had during my first year of IDPA.

The nice thing about the Walther is that once a round has been chambered, you can de-cock to put the gun into DA mode. However, if you then rack the slide approximately 1/2", such as you would for a press check, you will cock the striker, but not the trigger. In other words, the trigger remands in it's forward position. If you now pull the trigger, it will have no resistant until it 'hit' it's SA position, at which point the gun will fire under it's SA mode.

The mag release is not an issue either. I found it much faster to actually drop the mags using my trigger finger on the right side, rather then 'twisting' the gun up and shifting to my thumb. This way, you maintain your firing grip at all times.

The three back straps that come with the gun allows you to 'tailor' the grip for your hand size and the trigger reset is a little shorter then the Glocks.

Having said all this, I now compete with a Glock G34, and it has really improved my times.

If you are looking at something to pull double duty, the G19 is about as good as it gets. I will recommend that you install the Glock 3.5lb disconnecter, the extended mag release and slide stop from the G34. These modifications will cost you less then $20 and take about 10 minutes. But do use the Glock parts and NOT some other after market stuff, they cost more and usually are no better.

Let us know which one you picked.

MuthaGoose · August 27, 2006, 09:09 PM

I appreciate your responses guys; it's such a tough call since both are amazing guns. The Walther feels better in my hand than the Glock and I absolutely love it's SA trigger pull. My only real concern is having to learn the DA/SA transition.

Does anyone think that the answer lies in the middle road? Walther does have a P99QA that boasts only one trigger pull of 8.3 pounds over .27 inches of travel. It's obviously a heavier pull than the AS but it is consistent. Has anyone fired a QA? Is the reset as short as on the AS? Unfortunately they don't have any for rent around my parts so I can't answer these questions for myself

Lycanthrope · August 27, 2006, 09:56 PM

You need to shoot a Glock with a 3lb pull.

There's a reason that the Glock and 1911 own most of the IDPA market.

Duxman · August 28, 2006, 11:34 AM

Goose,

I have both guns - the P99AS and the Glock 34 (in my case, but my bro-in-law has the G19 and he lets me shoot it.)

We both do competitive shooting (But IPSC instead of IPDA). Here are some observations:

Ergonomically speaking - there is no beating the P99. I used to own a QA, but gave it up because I could not get used to the heavy 8 Ibs trigger. In retrospect, I should have had some trigger work done to it, and kept it - it was a nice weapon. (Titanium slide.)

My P99 AS in .40 is my regular winter carry gun. I love it. The more you shoot the Walther - the more crisp the trigger becomes. It gets better and better with age.

Issues: Magazine is a two piece plastic / steel piece of crap and are expensive: 39.99 for hicaps. So there is some probability of them breaking when they hit the ground during combat reloads. Becareful with these. Also if filled to capacity - 15 for 9mm, 12 for .40, they will not go nicely into the grip.

Glock G19 - nice 5.5 crisp trigger after break in. Virtually indestructable. A lot of aftermarket parts available for this weapon. Fine CC and general weapon aside from being an excellent combat shooter.

Issues - ergo is not as good as Walther. Your middle finger (I have bigger than normal hands) is going to get a blister or two if you fire more than 100 rounds in a day. But this can be resolved by a dremmel tool on the triggerguard technique.

If I could only have one of the two, I would probably go Walther for the coolness points and if I could afford the extra magazine cost. If I have a limited budget and want to make more after market mods - Go Glock.

Jim Watson · August 28, 2006, 01:27 PM

I know one (1.0) good shooter who uses a P99 versus the sea of Glocks.

I think if for whatever reason this is to be a first and only 9mm (Why? It's not like taking marriage vows.), you should probably go with the mob and get the gun that has the advantage in price, accessories, and techniques... the Glock.

Me?
I can't hit a damthing with a Glock and have previously shot IDPA SSP with a CZ75 and have a P226 being gunsmithed for the purpose. The DA-SA crunch-tick is learnable.

MuthaGoose · September 2, 2006, 01:06 AM

Thanks guys, I really appreciate all of the insightful the feedback you guys have given me.

It's a tough choice as both are excellent firearms.

I think I will end up going with the Glock 19. I figure it matches best with what I am looking for, and seems to be a great introductory pistol based on quality and price. It's affordable, tough, reliable, easy to maintain, combat accurate, has only one light trigger to learn, magazines that are durable and affordable, a good holster market, it fits my hand, and its dimensions make it a great carry piece.

(Basically, it does the same thing that the P99 can do, and for less money)

August 25, 2006, 10:33 PM	#1
MuthaGoose Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 2005 Posts: 130	IDPA: Walther P99AS or Glock 19? I am looking to purchase my first (and only) "combat" 9mm. Seeing that I will only have one pistol, I want it to be capable of fast and accurate double-taps. I'm looking for rapid-acqusition sights, excellent controllability, and a short trigger with a fast reset. Basically, I am looking for a concealable, compact, stock service pistol chambered in 9mm that would make a good IDPA gun. Having rented everything under the sun for the past year and a half, my favorites are the Glock 19 and the Walther P99AS. Some doubts I have about the Walther: 1)Its different trigger types; while I am in love with the SA trigger I would think that the first DA shot would take some getting used to. Does only having one trigger to learn make a huge difference in performance? 2)I am slightly concerned that the location of its mag release. Do you feel it would be difficult to manipulate the release rapidly without changing my shooting grip. With the Glock, I don't mind the 'fattiness' of its grip; but 1)it does not feel as comfortable as the Walther does. 2) While I feel the trigger is good, I don't find it nearly as nice as the Walther's. I will be comparing the two side-by-side for my next range visit. Assuming both fit your hand, could you highlight which of the two you would pick to meet my criteria and why? I am looking for feedback from unbiased shooters who have shot both firearms enough to formulate an opinion. Thanks ahead of time and I'm anxiously awaiting you responses!

August 25, 2006, 10:58 PM	#2
CrustyFN Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2006 Location: West Virginia Posts: 2,258	I haven't shot the Walther 9mm but have shot a Walther P99 40 and a Glock 17 9mm. I liked the Glock better. I don't own either but I do own a CZ 75. If you haven't tried that yet you might want to take a look at it. It is very comfortable and points well for me. Rusty __________________ I don't ever remember being absent minded.

August 26, 2006, 12:36 PM	#4
CrustyFN Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2006 Location: West Virginia Posts: 2,258	You definatly want a gun to be comfortable. You were asking about a DA trigger pull on the first shot. My CZ has a DA on the first shot. I was practiceing for my first IDPA match Thursday that I will shoot tomorrow and it will take some getting used to for me. But then with SA you would have to mess with a safety. I don't have enough experience with IDPA to know which would be better. Hopefully someone with more experience will jump in here and help us both out. Good luck with whichever you buy. Rusty __________________ I don't ever remember being absent minded.

August 28, 2006, 11:34 AM	#9
Duxman Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2005 Location: VA Posts: 1,294	Have both....comparisons Goose, I have both guns - the P99AS and the Glock 34 (in my case, but my bro-in-law has the G19 and he lets me shoot it.) We both do competitive shooting (But IPSC instead of IPDA). Here are some observations: Ergonomically speaking - there is no beating the P99. I used to own a QA, but gave it up because I could not get used to the heavy 8 Ibs trigger. In retrospect, I should have had some trigger work done to it, and kept it - it was a nice weapon. (Titanium slide.) My P99 AS in .40 is my regular winter carry gun. I love it. The more you shoot the Walther - the more crisp the trigger becomes. It gets better and better with age. Issues: Magazine is a two piece plastic / steel piece of crap and are expensive: 39.99 for hicaps. So there is some probability of them breaking when they hit the ground during combat reloads. Becareful with these. Also if filled to capacity - 15 for 9mm, 12 for .40, they will not go nicely into the grip. Glock G19 - nice 5.5 crisp trigger after break in. Virtually indestructable. A lot of aftermarket parts available for this weapon. Fine CC and general weapon aside from being an excellent combat shooter. Issues - ergo is not as good as Walther. Your middle finger (I have bigger than normal hands) is going to get a blister or two if you fire more than 100 rounds in a day. But this can be resolved by a dremmel tool on the triggerguard technique. If I could only have one of the two, I would probably go Walther for the coolness points and if I could afford the extra magazine cost. If I have a limited budget and want to make more after market mods - Go Glock.

August 25, 2006, 11:17 PM	#3
MuthaGoose Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 2005 Posts: 130	I actually have gotten my mitts on a range rental CZ-75, unfortunately my large hands didn't take too well to the trigger. With a comfortable grip on the pistol-butt, my trigger finger rested too far into the trigger guard. Whenever I fired the gun it was more with the middle of my finger instead of the tip. That and I didn't take too well to the small-profile sights. It's really a shame because the quality-for-value of the CZ is outstanding

August 26, 2006, 03:18 PM	#5
Lycanthrope Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2001 Location: PA Posts: 1,752	You can get a Glock trigger down to about 3lbs cheaply and the aftermarket for them is large. They are an excellent IDPA gun.

August 26, 2006, 07:25 PM	#6
Boondoggie Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2006 Location: NEO Posts: 202	The Walther was actually the gun I had during my first year of IDPA. The nice thing about the Walther is that once a round has been chambered, you can de-cock to put the gun into DA mode. However, if you then rack the slide approximately 1/2", such as you would for a press check, you will cock the striker, but not the trigger. In other words, the trigger remands in it's forward position. If you now pull the trigger, it will have no resistant until it 'hit' it's SA position, at which point the gun will fire under it's SA mode. The mag release is not an issue either. I found it much faster to actually drop the mags using my trigger finger on the right side, rather then 'twisting' the gun up and shifting to my thumb. This way, you maintain your firing grip at all times. The three back straps that come with the gun allows you to 'tailor' the grip for your hand size and the trigger reset is a little shorter then the Glocks. Having said all this, I now compete with a Glock G34, and it has really improved my times. If you are looking at something to pull double duty, the G19 is about as good as it gets. I will recommend that you install the Glock 3.5lb disconnecter, the extended mag release and slide stop from the G34. These modifications will cost you less then $20 and take about 10 minutes. But do use the Glock parts and NOT some other after market stuff, they cost more and usually are no better. Let us know which one you picked.

August 27, 2006, 09:09 PM	#7
MuthaGoose Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 2005 Posts: 130	I appreciate your responses guys; it's such a tough call since both are amazing guns. The Walther feels better in my hand than the Glock and I absolutely love it's SA trigger pull. My only real concern is having to learn the DA/SA transition. Does anyone think that the answer lies in the middle road? Walther does have a P99QA that boasts only one trigger pull of 8.3 pounds over .27 inches of travel. It's obviously a heavier pull than the AS but it is consistent. Has anyone fired a QA? Is the reset as short as on the AS? Unfortunately they don't have any for rent around my parts so I can't answer these questions for myself

August 27, 2006, 09:56 PM	#8
Lycanthrope Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2001 Location: PA Posts: 1,752	You need to shoot a Glock with a 3lb pull. There's a reason that the Glock and 1911 own most of the IDPA market.

August 28, 2006, 01:27 PM	#10
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,537	I know one (1.0) good shooter who uses a P99 versus the sea of Glocks. I think if for whatever reason this is to be a first and only 9mm (Why? It's not like taking marriage vows.), you should probably go with the mob and get the gun that has the advantage in price, accessories, and techniques... the Glock. Me? I can't hit a damthing with a Glock and have previously shot IDPA SSP with a CZ75 and have a P226 being gunsmithed for the purpose. The DA-SA crunch-tick is learnable.

September 2, 2006, 01:06 AM	#11
MuthaGoose Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 2005 Posts: 130	Thanks guys, I really appreciate all of the insightful the feedback you guys have given me. It's a tough choice as both are excellent firearms. I think I will end up going with the Glock 19. I figure it matches best with what I am looking for, and seems to be a great introductory pistol based on quality and price. It's affordable, tough, reliable, easy to maintain, combat accurate, has only one light trigger to learn, magazines that are durable and affordable, a good holster market, it fits my hand, and its dimensions make it a great carry piece. (Basically, it does the same thing that the P99 can do, and for less money)