The harms of cleaning

kx592 · January 7, 2011, 03:06 PM

People have been mentioning how the cleaning rod rubbing on the rifling can actually damage it. Im confused on this. I clean every gun I shoot before putting it away for next session. Seems like I might be doing more harm than good eh? How can the rifling withstand a bullet being squeezed through it but having the bore bush and rod rub on it damage it more? Are there techniques out there that minimize damage to the bore and parts? I use a straight rod with brush and than the patch and keep going till patch looks new. I do not use a bore guide on the rod as I dont see kits that sell as a whole complexion of tools for cleaning. Whats yall's advice?

Doyle · January 7, 2011, 03:29 PM

Bullets are softer than most cleaning rods. The concern is that you will cause uneven scratching right at the muzzle. Since the muzzle is the last thing that the bullet is in contact with, any damage there has the potential to cause accuracy issues.

If your weapon is designed to allow it, clean from the breech end. I use a piece of rubber tubing where the bolt goes and that helps cleaning fluids from dripping down into the magazine well.

If you must clean from the muzzle, do so very carefully.

4runnerman · January 7, 2011, 03:40 PM

Second what Doyle says. Also do not let the rod come compleatly out of muzzel.That causes rod to drop on crown doing the damage. Most pistols , The patch will keep rod from touching as barrels are not to long. Rifles are a different story. Use a Bore Guide for them. Cheap investment for a barrel saver.

Skans · January 7, 2011, 04:00 PM

Just make sure you use an aluminum rod - I think there may be some carbon fiber rods out there too. A bore snake isn't a bad idea either. You really only need to worry about this if you are using a steel rod and/or steel attachments.

kx592 · January 7, 2011, 04:50 PM

Hmm, Yea looks like im in trouble. I use all metal tools, rod and attachments.

Don P · January 7, 2011, 04:52 PM

I have been using Tipton Carbon Fiber rods.

RickB · January 7, 2011, 05:21 PM

Some will recommend that you use aluminum or brass rods, as the rod is softer than the barrel, so less likely to cause damage. Other say the soft rod material can have hard residues embedded in the surface which will damage the bore, so the steel rod is better. I have a mix of both types of rods, and use the one that fits!

quatin · January 7, 2011, 05:25 PM

Remember that even gun barrels are rated for something like 20k rounds before they wear. I heard some recommendations of 2x brush for every 1 round. That's a lot of repetitive metal on metal contact if you're not careful.

Doyle · January 7, 2011, 06:57 PM

Quote:

I heard some recommendations of 2x brush for every 1 round.

No way. My bores get cleaned once a year and even then it only takes a few passes. Between cleanings, they only get an occasional dry patch.

WANT A LCR 22LR · January 7, 2011, 07:14 PM

With a snub 38 I'm real tempted to just pull a rag through the bore and cylinders . . . ( See Lloyd Bridges in the movie "Hot Shots" pulling a rag through his ears. )

Ideal Tool · January 8, 2011, 02:04 AM

Hello, kx592. When you said you keep patching until it comes out like new...You could be doing more harm than good here. Even when a bore is clean, there will still be some slight discoloring on patch..I know I used to do it too, not anymore.. You should check out Sinclair International..they do have a web site. All kinds of tools, cleaners, rods, guides, etc. I always use a guide to protect rifling leade. Even on my single shots, where there is no long action as a bolt gun, I have made up guides from drilled out ctg. cases, some have bushings soldered in neck for further rod guidence.

RedneckFur · January 8, 2011, 02:08 AM

I'd reccomend AGAINST aluminum rods... aluminum is softer than steel... true. But Aluminum oxide is harder, and very abrasive. After all, they make knife sharpeners from it.

jmr40 · January 8, 2011, 07:30 AM

Anything touching the barrel can cause problems. Aluminum may be softer than steel but will still damage it. Water is softer than rock,
but it still carved out the Grand Canyon.

I clean dirt and crud from moving parts pretty regularly, but only clean my barrels when needed. And that is not often. Improper, or over-cleaning can cause more damage than shooting.

Ideal Tool · January 8, 2011, 10:28 PM

Hello again, kx592. I have used Dewey coated rods for years. Found one I like even better..Bore Stix. I have hardened stainless un-coated rods, but only use them for special purpose..usually when fire-lapping & don't want grit to imbed in coating. Some say a hard uncoated steel rod will "Peen" the rifling you can see this in spiral marks on a well used steel rod. In cleaning..don't drag that crud imbedded patch back and forth through bore!
1st. patch is dry to get rid of most fouling including the abrasive primer residue..no need to make a wet lapping slurry out of it. next one is wet with solvent. I like to let it soak a bit..usually go down to pick up targets...Keep muzzle depressed..don,t want that wet crud flowing back into action..or worse..into glass bedding! I usually never use a bronze brush..never felt the need..and I shoot mostly cast-bullets now days. Invest in a rod-guide! Sinclair International puts out a very nice catalog filled with all kind of goodies..they are a part of Brownell's now and offer even more stuff.

Dwight55 · January 9, 2011, 10:12 PM

Am I the only guy in town who uses a wooden dowel?

My two rifles that are accuracy critical are worth almost 3 grand, . . . and I would not like to see the bores on them become junk. No metal for me.

May God bless,
Dwight

**JohnKSa** · January 9, 2011, 10:25 PM

Aluminum is softer than steel, but as mentioned, it can retain grit. Also as mentioned, aluminum oxide is very hard (nearly as hard as diamond) and very abrasive. In addition, I've had trouble with durability when using aluminum rods. I've broken or bent several and there's the potential for injury or damage to the gun when you break a rod.

I use coated steel rods when possible and wipe them often to prevent buildup on the coating. I still try to keep them from contacting the rifling, especially at the muzzle.

When I first started cleaning I did a lot of brushing. Now I tend to let solvents do most of the work. The new foaming bore cleaners are a great work saver and they're very unlikely to do any damage as long as you follow the instructions.

I have used a wooden dowel on occasion when I didn't have a cleaning rod handy. Just be careful when using them not to apply too much pressure--as when a patch ends up being a tight fit in the bore. If a dowel breaks while you're pushing on it you can end up putting the dowel through your hand instead of through the barrel.

bassfishindoc · January 10, 2011, 12:04 AM

I use Dewey coated cleaning rods. They are coated to help protect the barrel plus I use a bore guide and a little adjustable stopper that stops my rod just before the brush fully exits the barrel so the rod does not wear a groove into the crown. I believe regular cleaning is important for extreme accuracy, why else would so many of the bench rest shooter clean their rifles so regularly and religiously. The key is to have quality components that are designed not to hurt your rifle and to be careful when cleaning so as not to cause an extra wear and tear.

**Bud Helms** · January 10, 2011, 06:49 AM

I quit using the coated rods when I saw some grit embedded in my Dewey's. I quit using aluminum when I saw some aluminum deposited near a crown. I went back to steel rods, keep them polished and clean and use a boreguide. BUT, I still start from the chamber end when possible. And I take particular pains getting and keeping the chamber clean, clean, clean.

Don't forget the chamber area when cleaning.

shortwave · January 10, 2011, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Am I the only guy in town that uses a wooden dowel?

No you're not as these are my favs.

Making cleaning rods out of hickory dowels is something I used to do for blackpowder guns thats carried over to other long guns as well as pistols.

As JohnSKa noted, be careful when using any wooden cleaning rod as when improperly used they can break and cause you injury.

With the cleaning chemicals available today, I just don't see the need to have to pound my cleaning rod into the bore. Apply the cleaning solution and give IT(solvent) time to work. Then simply use patched/bore swabbed wooden rod to remove dirt and chemical. Also when inserting rod in bore, we should grasp the rod(whether wood,steel or composite) no more than 6-12 inchs from the bore and push straight.
I watched a guy using a three piece steel rod clean his .223. He applied solvent to a patch that was placed over a brush. He inserted the tip of the patch/brush into the bore maybe about an inch. He then grabbed the handle end of the rod and rammed the thing home. Problem was, the rod bent enough to ride against the crown with every stroke he applied.

.

IMO, thats just not a good cleaning technique with whichever rod you choose.

RimfireChris · January 10, 2011, 11:50 AM

This is why I like the bore snakes. I still keep several rods around though, as the snakes are usless for getting out anything stuck in the bore.

old bear · January 10, 2011, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Am I the only guy in town who uses a wooden dowel?

You may be the only guy in your town who uses a wooden dowel, but you are not the only one to use one. I don't remember why but I started using wood dowel several years ago. Safe on the barrel and a cheap cleaning tool.
Thanks for suggesting it to everyone who had not thought about it.

FireForged · January 10, 2011, 11:38 PM

Clean your rifle... simple as that. Just be sure to use quality tools like those from Dewey. If you have it on your mind that you dont want the rod rubbing on stuff, its not that hard to do. I think that damaging your rifle is not something I would call easy to do if you using reasonable care.

6shot · January 11, 2011, 12:09 PM

well i learned a lot about cleaning. thanks for all the good tips in this post.

Scorch · January 11, 2011, 12:12 PM

Quote:

This is why I like the bore snakes. I still keep several rods around though, as the snakes are usless for getting out anything stuck in the bore.

Just wait until you get a BoreSnake stuck in the bore!!

January 7, 2011, 03:06 PM	#1
kx592 Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2009 Posts: 645	The harms of cleaning People have been mentioning how the cleaning rod rubbing on the rifling can actually damage it. Im confused on this. I clean every gun I shoot before putting it away for next session. Seems like I might be doing more harm than good eh? How can the rifling withstand a bullet being squeezed through it but having the bore bush and rod rub on it damage it more? Are there techniques out there that minimize damage to the bore and parts? I use a straight rod with brush and than the patch and keep going till patch looks new. I do not use a bore guide on the rod as I dont see kits that sell as a whole complexion of tools for cleaning. Whats yall's advice?

January 7, 2011, 03:40 PM	#3
4runnerman Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,577	Second what Doyle says. Also do not let the rod come compleatly out of muzzel.That causes rod to drop on crown doing the damage. Most pistols , The patch will keep rod from touching as barrels are not to long. Rifles are a different story. Use a Bore Guide for them. Cheap investment for a barrel saver. __________________ NRA Certified RSO NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional

January 7, 2011, 04:52 PM	#6
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	I have been using Tipton Carbon Fiber rods. __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

January 8, 2011, 02:08 AM	#12
RedneckFur Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2007 Location: Central NC Posts: 1,424	I'd reccomend AGAINST aluminum rods... aluminum is softer than steel... true. But Aluminum oxide is harder, and very abrasive. After all, they make knife sharpeners from it. __________________ In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. -George Orwell

January 9, 2011, 10:12 PM	#15
Dwight55 Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2004 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 2,568	Am I the only guy in town who uses a wooden dowel? My two rifles that are accuracy critical are worth almost 3 grand, . . . and I would not like to see the bores on them become junk. No metal for me. May God bless, Dwight __________________ www.dwightsgunleather.com If you can breathe, . . . thank God! If you can read, . . . thank a teacher! If you are reading this in English, . . . thank a Veteran!

January 7, 2011, 03:29 PM	#2
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	Bullets are softer than most cleaning rods. The concern is that you will cause uneven scratching right at the muzzle. Since the muzzle is the last thing that the bullet is in contact with, any damage there has the potential to cause accuracy issues. If your weapon is designed to allow it, clean from the breech end. I use a piece of rubber tubing where the bolt goes and that helps cleaning fluids from dripping down into the magazine well. If you must clean from the muzzle, do so very carefully.

January 7, 2011, 04:00 PM	#4
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	Just make sure you use an aluminum rod - I think there may be some carbon fiber rods out there too. A bore snake isn't a bad idea either. You really only need to worry about this if you are using a steel rod and/or steel attachments.

January 7, 2011, 04:50 PM	#5
kx592 Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2009 Posts: 645	Hmm, Yea looks like im in trouble. I use all metal tools, rod and attachments.

January 7, 2011, 05:21 PM	#7
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	Some will recommend that you use aluminum or brass rods, as the rod is softer than the barrel, so less likely to cause damage. Other say the soft rod material can have hard residues embedded in the surface which will damage the bore, so the steel rod is better. I have a mix of both types of rods, and use the one that fits!

January 7, 2011, 05:25 PM	#8
quatin Junior Member Join Date: February 27, 2007 Posts: 13	Remember that even gun barrels are rated for something like 20k rounds before they wear. I heard some recommendations of 2x brush for every 1 round. That's a lot of repetitive metal on metal contact if you're not careful.

January 7, 2011, 07:14 PM	#10
WANT A LCR 22LR Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2010 Posts: 389	With a snub 38 I'm real tempted to just pull a rag through the bore and cylinders . . . ( See Lloyd Bridges in the movie "Hot Shots" pulling a rag through his ears. )

January 8, 2011, 02:04 AM	#11
Ideal Tool Junior member Join Date: October 6, 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,080	Hello, kx592. When you said you keep patching until it comes out like new...You could be doing more harm than good here. Even when a bore is clean, there will still be some slight discoloring on patch..I know I used to do it too, not anymore.. You should check out Sinclair International..they do have a web site. All kinds of tools, cleaners, rods, guides, etc. I always use a guide to protect rifling leade. Even on my single shots, where there is no long action as a bolt gun, I have made up guides from drilled out ctg. cases, some have bushings soldered in neck for further rod guidence.

January 8, 2011, 07:30 AM	#13
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,809	Anything touching the barrel can cause problems. Aluminum may be softer than steel but will still damage it. Water is softer than rock, but it still carved out the Grand Canyon. I clean dirt and crud from moving parts pretty regularly, but only clean my barrels when needed. And that is not often. Improper, or over-cleaning can cause more damage than shooting.

January 8, 2011, 10:28 PM	#14
Ideal Tool Junior member Join Date: October 6, 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,080	Hello again, kx592. I have used Dewey coated rods for years. Found one I like even better..Bore Stix. I have hardened stainless un-coated rods, but only use them for special purpose..usually when fire-lapping & don't want grit to imbed in coating. Some say a hard uncoated steel rod will "Peen" the rifling you can see this in spiral marks on a well used steel rod. In cleaning..don't drag that crud imbedded patch back and forth through bore! 1st. patch is dry to get rid of most fouling including the abrasive primer residue..no need to make a wet lapping slurry out of it. next one is wet with solvent. I like to let it soak a bit..usually go down to pick up targets...Keep muzzle depressed..don,t want that wet crud flowing back into action..or worse..into glass bedding! I usually never use a bronze brush..never felt the need..and I shoot mostly cast-bullets now days. Invest in a rod-guide! Sinclair International puts out a very nice catalog filled with all kind of goodies..they are a part of Brownell's now and offer even more stuff.

January 9, 2011, 10:25 PM	#16
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,993	Aluminum is softer than steel, but as mentioned, it can retain grit. Also as mentioned, aluminum oxide is very hard (nearly as hard as diamond) and very abrasive. In addition, I've had trouble with durability when using aluminum rods. I've broken or bent several and there's the potential for injury or damage to the gun when you break a rod. I use coated steel rods when possible and wipe them often to prevent buildup on the coating. I still try to keep them from contacting the rifling, especially at the muzzle. When I first started cleaning I did a lot of brushing. Now I tend to let solvents do most of the work. The new foaming bore cleaners are a great work saver and they're very unlikely to do any damage as long as you follow the instructions. I have used a wooden dowel on occasion when I didn't have a cleaning rod handy. Just be careful when using them not to apply too much pressure--as when a patch ends up being a tight fit in the bore. If a dowel breaks while you're pushing on it you can end up putting the dowel through your hand instead of through the barrel. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

January 10, 2011, 12:04 AM	#17
bassfishindoc Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2010 Posts: 166	I use Dewey coated cleaning rods. They are coated to help protect the barrel plus I use a bore guide and a little adjustable stopper that stops my rod just before the brush fully exits the barrel so the rod does not wear a groove into the crown. I believe regular cleaning is important for extreme accuracy, why else would so many of the bench rest shooter clean their rifles so regularly and religiously. The key is to have quality components that are designed not to hurt your rifle and to be careful when cleaning so as not to cause an extra wear and tear. __________________ 2LT United States Army NRA Life Member GOA Life Member East Tennessee State University Quillen College of Medicine

January 10, 2011, 06:49 AM	#18
Bud Helms Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1999 Location: Middle Georgia, USA Posts: 13,198	I quit using the coated rods when I saw some grit embedded in my Dewey's. I quit using aluminum when I saw some aluminum deposited near a crown. I went back to steel rods, keep them polished and clean and use a boreguide. BUT, I still start from the chamber end when possible. And I take particular pains getting and keeping the chamber clean, clean, clean. Don't forget the chamber area when cleaning.

January 10, 2011, 11:50 AM	#20
RimfireChris Senior Member Join Date: April 27, 2010 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 421	This is why I like the bore snakes. I still keep several rods around though, as the snakes are usless for getting out anything stuck in the bore. __________________ Mal-"Jayne, how many weapons you plan on takin', you only got the two arms." Jayne-"Well I just get excitable as to choice-like to keep my options open."

January 10, 2011, 11:38 PM	#22
FireForged Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 1999 Location: Rebel South USA Posts: 2,074	Clean your rifle... simple as that. Just be sure to use quality tools like those from Dewey. If you have it on your mind that you dont want the rod rubbing on stuff, its not that hard to do. I think that damaging your rifle is not something I would call easy to do if you using reasonable care. __________________ Life is a web woven by necessity and chance...

January 11, 2011, 12:09 PM	#23
6shot Member Join Date: June 1, 2009 Posts: 39	well i learned a lot about cleaning. thanks for all the good tips in this post. __________________ WE MAY RISE AND FALL, BUT IN THE END WE MEET OUR FATE TOGETHER.