How deep do you like to seat your 58?

MontanaS · December 31, 2008, 07:22 PM

My first six rounds out of my new Pietta 58 were all within a 4 inch square at 10 yds. I had seated the balls deep into the cylinder. 28 grains Pyrodex 2f behind a lubed wad. The next six opened up and bit with only four inside a four inch square. Those rounds however had grits as filler and a wad on top with the balls just clearing the cylinder face so it could turn. I know I've much experiementation to go but was just wondering what some others have found a good load. I also should mention that I was shooting .451 size round balls. A friend of mine just cast me 100 .454's. I'll be trying them next.

pohill · December 31, 2008, 07:58 PM

I use .454 roundballs in all my .44s except the Ruger Old Army (.457). I use 25 -30 grs of Goex black powder (FFFG), though I had pretty good luck with the same amount of Pryodex FFG, especially in my Ruger (35 grs). I tried grits, Cream of Wheat, etc as a filler but found it to be an extra, useless step. Just seat the ball completely on the powder so there's no dead air space.
One day I tried PAM vegetable spray as a lube on my Paterson and it worked great. It also works on my Remingtons but not so great on the Colts (the Paterson and Remingtons don't have a grooved cylinder pin).
Lube pills made of paraffin, Beeswax, Bore Butter, Eye of Newt, etc work well over the powder/under the ball.

kirpi97 · December 31, 2008, 08:23 PM

I have heard of others using breakfast cereal as filler material. I haven't done that, but then again, I am no Annie Oakley either. As said above, seat the ball on the powder. If you need filler because your loader only goes so deep, the the filler may be a good thing.

The Pam thing I have heard of. And shooting with Pohill ought to be a riot. 'Cause if you don't hit anything, at least you will have a hot meal.

(Just joking. I know better than that.)

As for the wad, I haven't used one of them in my '58 either. Maybe I am missing out on something. So maybe I should ask, how many revolver shooters out there use a wad?

pohill · December 31, 2008, 09:17 PM

PAM, Crisco, Bore Butter, grits, cornmeal...no wonder why I gain weight every time I shoot.
I never used wads, just lube pills every now and then. I even made some by mixing up the ingredients and pouring it while it's hot down the barrel of my guns (the other end is blocked by an ear plug). Let it cool for a minute, then push out a Lube Stick from which you can cut perfectly sized lube pills as you need them.

Hawg · December 31, 2008, 10:03 PM

The only filler I use is 30-35 grs of powder and a wad.

kirpi97 · December 31, 2008, 10:32 PM

Po, send me your reciepie for "lube stick" I like the looks of something that will coat the barrel as I shoot. Does it help with cleaning?

The wax theory seems it would yield a good seat for the ball and seal the edges. With the lube stick plug, do you cover the ball to stop errant sparks? Or does this plug suffice?

pohill · December 31, 2008, 10:45 PM

As far as the recipe, I can never get it the same each time I make them. I use paraffin, beeswax and Bore Butter. Sometimes they're too hard, sometimes too soft. Smokin' Gun has a great recipe, and Wayne (Rifle) makes and sells the lube pills. When the pills are the right consistency, they prevent chainfire, keep the barrel lubed and make cleaning easier. I put the lube pills under the ball, with nothing over the ball.
I have had two double chamber fires, and they were no big deal, though I do not want that to happen again. A little extra smoke and flame. Both times, (two different guns) the ball exited the left side of the gun and went down to the ground at a 45 degree angle. I know the cause of those - I had cast my own roundballs and many in one batch were not perfectly round. My fault for using them.

madcratebuilder · January 1, 2009, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Lube pills made of paraffin, Beeswax, Bore Butter, Eye of Newt, etc work well over the powder/under the ball.

Don't tell the secrets! The eye of newt has some unknown properties that increase muzzle velocities, give you flatter trajectories, and eliminate the need for cleaning.

I have been using smokin' gun's grease cookie recipe for a while now. No more bore butter over the round balls makes a lot cleaner day of shooting. The grease cookie is a great arbor grease for open top Colts. I tried some generic 'pam' last time out at pohill's suggestion, works great. I'm almost to the point of needing a forklift to move my range box.

iwannasee · January 1, 2009, 12:08 PM

I tried the "PAM" thing also. One suggestion, DON'T USE BUTTER FLAVORED! I sprayed my revolver and then had an urge to eat some popcorn!!!

kirpi97 · January 1, 2009, 12:23 PM

Darn. I was about to use grits as a filler with some buttery flavored Pam down the barrel and around the cylinder and have a nice breakfast while plinking a few cans.

But your right. Why not load up a cylinder with popcorn in place of lead. This way I can do something green for those wackos out here on the left coast and feed their birds. Or draw them in.

noelf2 · January 1, 2009, 02:01 PM

35 gr fffg real bp; .457 ball on top of the powder; ring of crisco around the edge of the seated ball (50/50 beezwax/crisco in the summer). No wads, no pills. This gives the best accuracy for me. I've tried smaller balls, more powder, less powder, lubed patch over powder, dry patch over powder, corn meal or grits filler over less powder (patches and no patches). Never tried lube pills, but there's no need for me as I have finally found the right load for my '58 remi.

For my '58 remi cartridge conversion, I load 35gr fffg; 250gr LRNFP bullet (grooves filled with beeswax/crisco lube), moderate crimp. Not quite as accurate as the c&b, but not bad either.

long rider · January 1, 2009, 05:16 PM

Beeswax & crisco, i am with you on that noelf2.

pohill · January 1, 2009, 06:04 PM

I use mostly Crisco because I shoot mostly Colts. I just sold two Remingtons (.36 & .44), but when I shot them, they always jammed after two cylinders fired. The lube pills, and PAM, solved that problem. It had nothing to do with accuracy. And I challenge anyone to shoot more than 5 shots out of a Paterson using only Crisco or Bore Butter without it jamming. With lube pills I can get all five shots off, with PAM, I can get ten shots off without re-lubing.
Then there's the Ruger Old Army - it'll do what it should do with whatever you feed it. That is quite a gun.

MontanaS · January 1, 2009, 07:43 PM

So I'm assuming most of you seat the ball deep into the cylinder?

long rider · January 1, 2009, 08:03 PM

NO i seat the ball so its close to the cone on the bore
30 grns of black does not let you sink the ball deep,
+ i get better results with the ball close to the forceing
cone, then theres just room for my lube on top of the ball.

Smokin_Gun · January 2, 2009, 03:18 AM

Montana, Pyrodex is spongy and compresses more than the hard crunchy FFFG Goex or other Black Powders... if you use 28gr you got that part right on, now get youurself some Black Powder in fffg and you'll be set and them 10yard 4" groups will be 25 yard 4" groups. I'll PM you my lube pill recipe if you go get a lb. of Black Powder in fffg and try it...give a range report on the differance.

SG

Smokin_Gun · January 2, 2009, 03:28 AM

Pohill, you keep mentioning Patersons and I'm a gonna have to go fire my unfired one ... I'm glad to see you're still shootin' the Texas Paterson and enjoyin' the first Colt antiquity live and the way the Texas Rangers did...

When I mentioned Pam to Sophia A. Uberti(my first named Remington '58x.44)
she gave me a dirty look and not in a good way.
I gotta take her out shootin' next time.

SG

mykeal · January 2, 2009, 08:58 AM

First of all, popcorn in the chambers is a great idea but don't expect high muzzle velocities. Which is a good thing, 'cause you can catch the popped kernels pretty easily.

Don't want to use them as a hunting load, however. It's unlikely a charging hog will stop to eat them long enough for you to reload with real bullets.

Load a couple of chambers with corn meal filler and use Crisco over the ball; use grits and the butter flavored PAM in the others and you can have some corn meal bread with your grits.

Is there no end to the madness?

pohill · January 2, 2009, 09:01 AM

OK, here's the deal with PAM. If you try it and DON'T like it, let everyone know.
If you try it and DO like it, tell everyone that it sucks.
If everyone tries it and likes it, the price will go up.
If everyone either hates it or lies about liking it, the price will not go up.
Personally, I do not like it, I do not recommend it, I think it's the worse lube ever suggested for black powder, it smells, it makes you fat, it impairs accuracy, it made my wife run away with the pool boy and we don't even have a pool (I wondered about that when she hired him), and...AND...liberals love the stuff.
Stay away from PAM.
Now, I'm on my way to the range....where the hell is my Can O' Pam?

Hawg · January 2, 2009, 10:41 AM

Pohill, you almost got me sent away to the nut house. I asked my wife to get me a can of Pam when she went shopping the other day(she doesn't use it). She wanted to know what I wanted it for and I told her I was gong to spray it on my pistols. You ought to have seen the look she gave me. It was bad enough when I was taking her crisco and olive oil and cleaning guns in the bathroom sink. Now that I read what I just wrote maybe I do need a lil vacation in a rubber room.

mykeal · January 2, 2009, 10:53 AM

She was just reacting to you putting the Crisco over your ba....oh, never mind.

pohill · January 2, 2009, 10:54 AM

"It's so nice to be insane
No one asks you to explain."

I think we should come up with a new name for PAM, something macho. Put it in a new and improved macho can, something that invokes images of the West, of cowboys and guns and...
How about Broke Back Mountain Lube?
Ah...maybe not.

Hawg · January 2, 2009, 11:37 AM

DAMMIT Pohill! You owe me a new keyboard.

December 31, 2008, 07:22 PM	#1
MontanaS Member Join Date: December 25, 2008 Posts: 46	How deep do you like to seat your 58? My first six rounds out of my new Pietta 58 were all within a 4 inch square at 10 yds. I had seated the balls deep into the cylinder. 28 grains Pyrodex 2f behind a lubed wad. The next six opened up and bit with only four inside a four inch square. Those rounds however had grits as filler and a wad on top with the balls just clearing the cylinder face so it could turn. I know I've much experiementation to go but was just wondering what some others have found a good load. I also should mention that I was shooting .451 size round balls. A friend of mine just cast me 100 .454's. I'll be trying them next.

December 31, 2008, 08:23 PM	#3
kirpi97 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 236	I have heard of others using breakfast cereal as filler material. I haven't done that, but then again, I am no Annie Oakley either. As said above, seat the ball on the powder. If you need filler because your loader only goes so deep, the the filler may be a good thing. The Pam thing I have heard of. And shooting with Pohill ought to be a riot. 'Cause if you don't hit anything, at least you will have a hot meal. (Just joking. I know better than that.) As for the wad, I haven't used one of them in my '58 either. Maybe I am missing out on something. So maybe I should ask, how many revolver shooters out there use a wad? __________________ The parting shot... "Those who hammer their guns into plows, will plow for those who do not." Thomas Jefferson

December 31, 2008, 10:32 PM	#6
kirpi97 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 236	Po, send me your reciepie for "lube stick" I like the looks of something that will coat the barrel as I shoot. Does it help with cleaning? The wax theory seems it would yield a good seat for the ball and seal the edges. With the lube stick plug, do you cover the ball to stop errant sparks? Or does this plug suffice? __________________ The parting shot... "Those who hammer their guns into plows, will plow for those who do not." Thomas Jefferson

January 1, 2009, 12:23 PM	#10
kirpi97 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 236	Darn. I was about to use grits as a filler with some buttery flavored Pam down the barrel and around the cylinder and have a nice breakfast while plinking a few cans. But your right. Why not load up a cylinder with popcorn in place of lead. This way I can do something green for those wackos out here on the left coast and feed their birds. Or draw them in. __________________ The parting shot... "Those who hammer their guns into plows, will plow for those who do not." Thomas Jefferson

January 1, 2009, 02:01 PM	#11
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	35 gr fffg real bp; .457 ball on top of the powder; ring of crisco around the edge of the seated ball (50/50 beezwax/crisco in the summer). No wads, no pills. This gives the best accuracy for me. I've tried smaller balls, more powder, less powder, lubed patch over powder, dry patch over powder, corn meal or grits filler over less powder (patches and no patches). Never tried lube pills, but there's no need for me as I have finally found the right load for my '58 remi. For my '58 remi cartridge conversion, I load 35gr fffg; 250gr LRNFP bullet (grooves filled with beeswax/crisco lube), moderate crimp. Not quite as accurate as the c&b, but not bad either. __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

December 31, 2008, 07:58 PM	#2
pohill Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: northeast Posts: 521	I use .454 roundballs in all my .44s except the Ruger Old Army (.457). I use 25 -30 grs of Goex black powder (FFFG), though I had pretty good luck with the same amount of Pryodex FFG, especially in my Ruger (35 grs). I tried grits, Cream of Wheat, etc as a filler but found it to be an extra, useless step. Just seat the ball completely on the powder so there's no dead air space. One day I tried PAM vegetable spray as a lube on my Paterson and it worked great. It also works on my Remingtons but not so great on the Colts (the Paterson and Remingtons don't have a grooved cylinder pin). Lube pills made of paraffin, Beeswax, Bore Butter, Eye of Newt, etc work well over the powder/under the ball.

December 31, 2008, 09:17 PM	#4
pohill Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: northeast Posts: 521	PAM, Crisco, Bore Butter, grits, cornmeal...no wonder why I gain weight every time I shoot. I never used wads, just lube pills every now and then. I even made some by mixing up the ingredients and pouring it while it's hot down the barrel of my guns (the other end is blocked by an ear plug). Let it cool for a minute, then push out a Lube Stick from which you can cut perfectly sized lube pills as you need them.

December 31, 2008, 10:03 PM	#5
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	The only filler I use is 30-35 grs of powder and a wad.

December 31, 2008, 10:45 PM	#7
pohill Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: northeast Posts: 521	As far as the recipe, I can never get it the same each time I make them. I use paraffin, beeswax and Bore Butter. Sometimes they're too hard, sometimes too soft. Smokin' Gun has a great recipe, and Wayne (Rifle) makes and sells the lube pills. When the pills are the right consistency, they prevent chainfire, keep the barrel lubed and make cleaning easier. I put the lube pills under the ball, with nothing over the ball. I have had two double chamber fires, and they were no big deal, though I do not want that to happen again. A little extra smoke and flame. Both times, (two different guns) the ball exited the left side of the gun and went down to the ground at a 45 degree angle. I know the cause of those - I had cast my own roundballs and many in one batch were not perfectly round. My fault for using them.

January 1, 2009, 12:08 PM	#9
iwannasee Junior Member Join Date: February 25, 2008 Posts: 14	I tried the "PAM" thing also. One suggestion, DON'T USE BUTTER FLAVORED! I sprayed my revolver and then had an urge to eat some popcorn!!!

January 1, 2009, 05:16 PM	#12
long rider Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2008 Posts: 669	Beeswax & crisco, i am with you on that noelf2. __________________ Sod Buster Tried To Pull On Willson.

January 1, 2009, 06:04 PM	#13
pohill Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: northeast Posts: 521	I use mostly Crisco because I shoot mostly Colts. I just sold two Remingtons (.36 & .44), but when I shot them, they always jammed after two cylinders fired. The lube pills, and PAM, solved that problem. It had nothing to do with accuracy. And I challenge anyone to shoot more than 5 shots out of a Paterson using only Crisco or Bore Butter without it jamming. With lube pills I can get all five shots off, with PAM, I can get ten shots off without re-lubing. Then there's the Ruger Old Army - it'll do what it should do with whatever you feed it. That is quite a gun.

January 1, 2009, 07:43 PM	#14
MontanaS Member Join Date: December 25, 2008 Posts: 46	So I'm assuming most of you seat the ball deep into the cylinder?

January 1, 2009, 08:03 PM	#15
long rider Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2008 Posts: 669	NO i seat the ball so its close to the cone on the bore 30 grns of black does not let you sink the ball deep, + i get better results with the ball close to the forceing cone, then theres just room for my lube on top of the ball. __________________ Sod Buster Tried To Pull On Willson.

January 2, 2009, 03:18 AM	#16
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Montana, Pyrodex is spongy and compresses more than the hard crunchy FFFG Goex or other Black Powders... if you use 28gr you got that part right on, now get youurself some Black Powder in fffg and you'll be set and them 10yard 4" groups will be 25 yard 4" groups. I'll PM you my lube pill recipe if you go get a lb. of Black Powder in fffg and try it...give a range report on the differance. SG __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

January 2, 2009, 03:28 AM	#17
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Pohill, you keep mentioning Patersons and I'm a gonna have to go fire my unfired one ... I'm glad to see you're still shootin' the Texas Paterson and enjoyin' the first Colt antiquity live and the way the Texas Rangers did... When I mentioned Pam to Sophia A. Uberti(my first named Remington '58x.44) she gave me a dirty look and not in a good way. I gotta take her out shootin' next time. SG __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

January 2, 2009, 08:58 AM	#18
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	First of all, popcorn in the chambers is a great idea but don't expect high muzzle velocities. Which is a good thing, 'cause you can catch the popped kernels pretty easily. Don't want to use them as a hunting load, however. It's unlikely a charging hog will stop to eat them long enough for you to reload with real bullets. Load a couple of chambers with corn meal filler and use Crisco over the ball; use grits and the butter flavored PAM in the others and you can have some corn meal bread with your grits. Is there no end to the madness?

January 2, 2009, 09:01 AM	#19
pohill Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: northeast Posts: 521	OK, here's the deal with PAM. If you try it and DON'T like it, let everyone know. If you try it and DO like it, tell everyone that it sucks. If everyone tries it and likes it, the price will go up. If everyone either hates it or lies about liking it, the price will not go up. Personally, I do not like it, I do not recommend it, I think it's the worse lube ever suggested for black powder, it smells, it makes you fat, it impairs accuracy, it made my wife run away with the pool boy and we don't even have a pool (I wondered about that when she hired him), and...AND...liberals love the stuff. Stay away from PAM. Now, I'm on my way to the range....where the hell is my Can O' Pam?

January 2, 2009, 10:41 AM	#20
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	Pohill, you almost got me sent away to the nut house. I asked my wife to get me a can of Pam when she went shopping the other day(she doesn't use it). She wanted to know what I wanted it for and I told her I was gong to spray it on my pistols. You ought to have seen the look she gave me. It was bad enough when I was taking her crisco and olive oil and cleaning guns in the bathroom sink. Now that I read what I just wrote maybe I do need a lil vacation in a rubber room.

January 2, 2009, 10:53 AM	#21
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	She was just reacting to you putting the Crisco over your ba....oh, never mind.

January 2, 2009, 10:54 AM	#22
pohill Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: northeast Posts: 521	"It's so nice to be insane No one asks you to explain." I think we should come up with a new name for PAM, something macho. Put it in a new and improved macho can, something that invokes images of the West, of cowboys and guns and... How about Broke Back Mountain Lube? Ah...maybe not.

January 2, 2009, 11:37 AM	#23
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	DAMMIT Pohill! You owe me a new keyboard.