Muzzle Loading Archery/Harpoon Guns

arcticap · July 25, 2009, 01:29 PM

There's a well known Connecticut company that makes archery barrels for the Ruger 10/22, as well as guns that fire arrows, harpoons, tranquilizing darts and larger caliber bullets powered by compressed air or blank cartridges.

http://www.swivelmachine.com/html/rimfire.htm

Because the basic idea has already been proven to work, it should also be possible to shoot an arrow or harpoon type projectile from a muzzle loader.
I know that plenty of people have forgotten that their ramrod was still in the bore after ramming and ended up launching it downrange.
And I believe that there are also some kind of wooden darts that are commonly fired from the modern reproductions of gonnes.

If some thick wadding was put in the bottom of a smaller caliber barrel the gases would be sealed.
The arrow projectile could additionally be wrapped with some leather or other gasket material to keep it stable once loaded inside the barrel.

Even if a larger caliber barrel was used, a thicker arrow or "harpoon" could be used to better fill the bore since a thinner arrow might snap or fracture with a heavy load.
But unless someone has a very good backing for their target like a wheel of hay, there's a good chance that the arrow would get damaged or destroyed upon impact.

It may even be possible to shoot a single short arrow or "bolt" from a C&B revolver barrel. However a safe method for preloading such a projectile into the barrel would need to be developed before the cylinder is loaded with powder and then finally capped. But I think that it could be done safely and would work to some extent.

I suppose that if someone was in a survival situation and ran out bullets to shoot, that making a projectile from available materials would be an option.

So what does anyone think about the idea of shooting wooden arrows, harpoons, bolts or darts from the various types of muzzle loading guns, who has ever tried it or would be willing to?

Noz · July 25, 2009, 02:39 PM

Why?

Hawg · July 25, 2009, 02:57 PM

My thinking is it wouldn't work very well. To get the arrow seated on the powder charge will limit you to a practice point. There's no way to keep it centered in the bore without adding something that's going to cause drag once it leaves the muzzle and I don't want an arrowhead riding on my rifling. Not to mention the arrow being fired from a barrel without being centered would porpoise and/or have too much yaw and I seriously doubt the fletching would hold up.

If you want to shoot arrows get a bow.

arcticap · July 25, 2009, 03:29 PM

Wooden darts with flexible leather fletching were used in gonnes in ancient times and by modern re-enactors. So it's an idea that has proven itself viable.

I'm not sure how necessary fletching would be if only shooting for a short distance with a rifled barrel, but by using modern materials some sort of flexible fletching could be devised.
How do they get arrows to shoot well using a special archery barrel attached to the Ruger 10/22 with nail gun blanks?

Someone mentioned that civil war soldiers have probably been shot with ramrods.
And a looser arrow like projectile may be able to be loaded more quickly than a patched round ball in an emergency survival or self-defense situation, especially if proper ammunition was not available or at hand. And if a paper cartridge was preloaded with powder and the arrow/harpoon was simply used as a ramrod, it would be like having an instant reload!

Hawg · July 25, 2009, 03:36 PM

Quote:

How did they get arrows to shoot well using a special archery barrel attached to the Ruger 10/22?

Don't know anything about it but it's probably a smooth bore. I still don't think an arrow is going to work well with rifling.

Quote:

Someone mentioned that civil war soldiers may have been shot with ramrods.

I suppose it's possible but military ramrods are steel and do not fly straight.

grymster2007 · July 25, 2009, 04:53 PM

How 'bout a shaft, to the base of which is attached a leather band that makes the diameter about the same diameter as the ball the gun would use? And one more up the shaft about half the barrel length? With spin imparted by the bands, maybe the fletching could be dispensed with. But I would wonder about the pressure incurred attempting to move a projectile so much heavier than a ball.

arcticap · July 25, 2009, 07:35 PM

Here's 2 responses from another forum:

Quote:

Seems to me I have some pictures of a 1700s flare/signal gun

Sort of a Long barreled Jaeger flintlock kind of thing.

It shot illumination flares that looked like big bottle rockets

Definite wood rod down the bbl. ,fired from the shoulder.

Quote:

Shoulder fired muzzleloading harpoon guns are still in use up here by native whalers, especially for the kill lance. Pretty common.

Memory is foggy whether it was L&C Journals or another source, but there's a historic account of one explorer or trapper that got separated from his party for some time with his rifle and powder but without his ball bag. He tried shooting small game with wooden "arrows" in his rifle, but as I recall he was pretty darned hungry when reunited.

And yeah, my wife forgot to withdraw the ramrod when shooting her 36 cal at targets. 30 grains of 3f if I recall correctly. Testimony to her marksmanship, she just missed the 10-ring on a 3" bull at 25 yards. She acknowledged feeling more recoil at the shot, but didn't realize what she had done till she started looking for her ramrod to reload.

Yeah we didn't kid her too much about it. Not after the first year anyway. Come to think about it, maybe it's time to remind her one more time.......

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fu...742008/#742008

If anyone wants to register for the Muzzle Loading Forum and read the thread, here's my personal referral link:

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fu...referral/4225/

Hawg · July 25, 2009, 09:53 PM

Quote:

If anyone wants to register for the Muzzle Loading Forum and read the thread, here's my personal referral link:

You couldn't pay me to go back to that POS place.:barf:

MacGille · July 30, 2009, 05:04 PM

Again, Why????:barf:

arcticap · July 31, 2009, 04:13 AM

Why do people put tomato sauce on spaghetti?

Because black powder makes everything taste "Ahhhh! Soooo gooood!

Dingoboyx · July 31, 2009, 04:32 AM

LOL, but hey, really, why not?

I reckon the answer would be a 'fallaway sabot' made of wood/leather (or cheat and use nylon)

so once the arrow leaves the barrel the sabot falls off the arrow, so the arrow goes solo

.... could work..... Make the sabot in 3 pieces that fit together to fill the barrel around the arrow and its flights?

I have a .662 smoothbore (Indian copy of a 2 band Enfield) Might have to try it and see

I wouldn't count on being able to reuse the arrow tho.... maybe the sabot, if you can find it

Hmmmm. add to 'must try list'

Hawg · July 31, 2009, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Why do people put tomato sauce on spaghetti?

I dunno but I wish they'd quit. Spaghetti wouldn't be half bad without it. It's inedible with it.:barf:

July 25, 2009, 01:29 PM	#1
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	Muzzle Loading Archery/Harpoon Guns There's a well known Connecticut company that makes archery barrels for the Ruger 10/22, as well as guns that fire arrows, harpoons, tranquilizing darts and larger caliber bullets powered by compressed air or blank cartridges. http://www.swivelmachine.com/html/rimfire.htm Because the basic idea has already been proven to work, it should also be possible to shoot an arrow or harpoon type projectile from a muzzle loader. I know that plenty of people have forgotten that their ramrod was still in the bore after ramming and ended up launching it downrange. And I believe that there are also some kind of wooden darts that are commonly fired from the modern reproductions of gonnes. If some thick wadding was put in the bottom of a smaller caliber barrel the gases would be sealed. The arrow projectile could additionally be wrapped with some leather or other gasket material to keep it stable once loaded inside the barrel. Even if a larger caliber barrel was used, a thicker arrow or "harpoon" could be used to better fill the bore since a thinner arrow might snap or fracture with a heavy load. But unless someone has a very good backing for their target like a wheel of hay, there's a good chance that the arrow would get damaged or destroyed upon impact. It may even be possible to shoot a single short arrow or "bolt" from a C&B revolver barrel. However a safe method for preloading such a projectile into the barrel would need to be developed before the cylinder is loaded with powder and then finally capped. But I think that it could be done safely and would work to some extent. I suppose that if someone was in a survival situation and ran out bullets to shoot, that making a projectile from available materials would be an option. So what does anyone think about the idea of shooting wooden arrows, harpoons, bolts or darts from the various types of muzzle loading guns, who has ever tried it or would be willing to? Last edited by arcticap; July 25, 2009 at 01:52 PM.

July 25, 2009, 02:39 PM	#2
Noz Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Posts: 643	? Why?

July 25, 2009, 03:29 PM	#4
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	Wooden darts with flexible leather fletching were used in gonnes in ancient times and by modern re-enactors. So it's an idea that has proven itself viable. I'm not sure how necessary fletching would be if only shooting for a short distance with a rifled barrel, but by using modern materials some sort of flexible fletching could be devised. How do they get arrows to shoot well using a special archery barrel attached to the Ruger 10/22 with nail gun blanks? Someone mentioned that civil war soldiers have probably been shot with ramrods. And a looser arrow like projectile may be able to be loaded more quickly than a patched round ball in an emergency survival or self-defense situation, especially if proper ammunition was not available or at hand. And if a paper cartridge was preloaded with powder and the arrow/harpoon was simply used as a ramrod, it would be like having an instant reload! Last edited by arcticap; July 25, 2009 at 03:35 PM.

July 25, 2009, 04:53 PM	#6
grymster2007 Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: In the oak studded hills near Napa Posts: 2,203	How 'bout a shaft, to the base of which is attached a leather band that makes the diameter about the same diameter as the ball the gun would use? And one more up the shaft about half the barrel length? With spin imparted by the bands, maybe the fletching could be dispensed with. But I would wonder about the pressure incurred attempting to move a projectile so much heavier than a ball. __________________ grym

July 30, 2009, 05:04 PM	#9
MacGille Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2006 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 976	Again, Why????:barf: __________________ If ye love wealth better than Liberty, the tranquillity of servitude than the animated contest of Freedom, go from us in Peace. We ask not your counsel or Arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen. --Samuel Adams--<*ixoye><

July 25, 2009, 02:57 PM	#3
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	My thinking is it wouldn't work very well. To get the arrow seated on the powder charge will limit you to a practice point. There's no way to keep it centered in the bore without adding something that's going to cause drag once it leaves the muzzle and I don't want an arrowhead riding on my rifling. Not to mention the arrow being fired from a barrel without being centered would porpoise and/or have too much yaw and I seriously doubt the fletching would hold up. If you want to shoot arrows get a bow.

July 31, 2009, 04:13 AM	#10
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	Why do people put tomato sauce on spaghetti? Because black powder makes everything taste "Ahhhh! Soooo gooood!

July 31, 2009, 04:32 AM	#11
Dingoboyx Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2009 Location: South East Queensland, Australia Posts: 1,513	Yeah, why? LOL, but hey, really, why not? I reckon the answer would be a 'fallaway sabot' made of wood/leather (or cheat and use nylon) so once the arrow leaves the barrel the sabot falls off the arrow, so the arrow goes solo .... could work..... Make the sabot in 3 pieces that fit together to fill the barrel around the arrow and its flights? I have a .662 smoothbore (Indian copy of a 2 band Enfield) Might have to try it and see I wouldn't count on being able to reuse the arrow tho.... maybe the sabot, if you can find it Hmmmm. add to 'must try list' __________________ Muzza If you cant blind them with brilliance, Baffle them with BS Be alert...... there is a shortage of LERTs