Quick question for the CZ 75 owners

pturner67 · September 28, 2012, 08:20 PM

I have a CZ 75 SP-01 Tactical 9mm. It's a terrific gun.

A while back, I bought some Georgia Arms 9MM 147gr Jacketed Hollow Point +P ammunition and my CZ hated the ammo. It would fire the round but the next round would fail to load. I replaced with Federal HST 147gr and it worked perfectly.

I'm going to the gun show tomorrow and will be looking at Hornady Critical Duty 135gr +P while I'm there. I've tried the Critical Defense 115gr and it worked just fine.

Has anyone here used Critical Duty in their CZ 75? If so, how did it function?

I'm wondering what would cause the Georgia Arms ammunition to not work in my CZ. Maybe the +P factor?

Thanks in advance for your input.

myshoulderissore · September 28, 2012, 08:23 PM

I'll be shooting 50 rounds of critical duty tomorrow morning through my P01, I'll post how they go!

pturner67 · September 28, 2012, 09:09 PM

thanks myshoulderissore...appreciate it...great name by the way

loose_holster_dan · September 28, 2012, 10:11 PM

i actually don't have any hollow points through any of my cz's. should probably try them before i start carrying my pcr...
that said, i haven't had problems with the heavier speer gold dots in my walthers. might give them a try.

Pilot · September 29, 2012, 07:15 AM

There may be a problem with the OAL of the cartridge. You may want to compare the length with some other cartridges to see if these are longer than the ones that work.

Sparks1957 · September 29, 2012, 07:22 AM

CZ chambers are notoriously short, so longer OALs may experience a problem.

I like Golden Sabers, and I don't have trouble with them in any of my CZs

IMightBeWrong · September 29, 2012, 08:36 AM

I had a P-01 as well for about a year that loved Golden Sabers. It's a well proven JHP as well, I'd take it over any of the new Hornady Critical whatevers on the market.

irish52084 · September 29, 2012, 10:10 AM

I'd guess the OAL was a tad long on that 147 load. I've run just about every brand or HP through my SP-01 and never had a problem. My go to load is either the Speer gold dot 124+P+ or the 115+P+. Both function reliably in my pistol and both are good performers.

skiwi · September 29, 2012, 04:08 PM

polishing the feed ramp would be a good idea. Try the problematic ammo after.

pturner67 · September 29, 2012, 04:15 PM

Thanks guys. I went to the gun show today and compared the OAL the GA Arms 147 +P, Federal 147 HST, Federal 124 HST and there is definitely a difference. The vendors would not let me leave the table with the product so I did not get a chance to compare the Hornady Crit Duty/Defense with the others. I know the Hornady Crit Defense works perfectly in my CZ so I guess I will wait to hear any input on the Crit Duty.

If anyone in here has any of the above ammunition and can measure the OAL between them, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks again for the responses.

ps- for anyone in the VA/MD/DC area, the Dulles gun show was packed today

pturner67 · September 29, 2012, 04:17 PM

skiwi, I clean the gun and feed ramp after every trip to the range...the feed ramp is clean and very slick...as for polishing, can you please explain?

thanks

pturner67 · September 29, 2012, 04:25 PM

skiwi, I just saw a few videos on yuotube on polishing the feed ramp. Thanks for the suggestion.

myshoulderissore · September 29, 2012, 04:30 PM

By the way, shot all sorts of ammo through my P-01 today, and not even a hint of a problem, Critical Duty included... Also, tons of fun!

pturner67 · September 29, 2012, 04:33 PM

Thanks myshoulderissore!!

Pilot · September 30, 2012, 02:09 PM

I reload 9MM with 115 grain LSWC, and have to seat them very deep for them to reliably feed in my 75B. I don't have to worry about them in my Browning Hi Power. I will try then in my PCR which has never had a stoppage of any kind in 12 years of ownership.

I suspect my 75B's issues were with my reloads which were a bit to long.

SteelChickenShooter · September 30, 2012, 02:34 PM

I've noticed problems with rounds jamming in CZ magazines, so I tried those same rounds in Glock magazines with the same results. Some bind, fail to pop up to the top, so those rounds above can simply fall out. I took weights and measures finding 3 distinct catagories of weight and three distinct catagories on over all length. These bullets were a mix of PMC and Winchester. They appear to be the bargain items and not the premium. To experiment, I've loaded multiple CZ and Glock magazines with some premium ammo brands to see if there will be any malfunctions. Loading some of these rounds into a magazine intended for personal defense, letting the magazines sit idle for days or weeks, and then having failures to function because they are bound up unable to feed would be a bad thing. I also began to have an idea that these kinds of problems might only take place in a double stack magazine because after the top three or four rounds fell out, the jammed rounds looked cockeyed down inside. I thought perhaps a single stack magazine would prevent this sort of failure. Therefore a single stack could be more reliable when in urgent need. The concept of a higher round count and more capacity sort of goes out the window if the bullets cannot reach the top of the mag and load into the chamber. In my present trial, I am using 115g +P only. Not 124's or 147's at this time. Looking at this mix of rounds that do not work well, it looks like there could be a mix of different weights and I see 29.3mm as a short and a 29.8mm as a long.

KevK. · September 30, 2012, 02:49 PM

I did own a CZ 75 (pre -b). 115, and 124 grain ammo, I never had a problem feeding. The 147 for certain rounds it didn't like at all and got plenty of FTF. Which at the time led me to believe that it was the shape of the bullet and how it hit the feed ramp.

I polished up the feed ramp, and never had problems with anything I shot out of it.

SteelChickenShooter · October 1, 2012, 03:25 PM

To clarify, in my case, I can load these "bad" rounds into the magazine. Slap the botton, slap the back so they are all well seated in place and then pop them off. No failures to feed, no issues with the feed ramp. What I describe is a case where the rounds are loaded but then not fired. They sit in the magazine for days or weeks or so, and the upper couple or several rounds can simply drop out of the magazine while the magazine follower, spring, and problem rounds are stuck in place. Dump the loose rounds out. Slap the bottom and I can get a pair of bullets trying to get out at the same time. They are stuck with no way out under normal use. I used a tool to push one back in order to allow the uppermost one to come out. Another aspect of this I did not mention is something else I've been looking at. That is the jacket or cladding on some of these hollowpoints are irregular. They are not uniform in shape. Some have high spots and I thought maybe those high spots on the longer OAL rounds might be binding in the magazine. This is easily seen using a digital caliper. Measure OAL, rotate the round a quarter turn, and a longer or shorter measure may result. My plan is to use an optical comparator in addition to the basic OAL measures to see how premium hollowpoint ammo might compare to the cheaper versions. I'd be looking for uniformity, or lack of it, concerning OAL and shape of the nose.

Pico · October 2, 2012, 06:05 AM

I had some chambering issues with this round in my Ruger SR9-C. Not with my cz-75bd though. All other GA Arms ammo has been consistently beyond expectations.

Pico

Walt Sherrill · October 2, 2012, 06:51 AM

Quote:

CZ chambers are notoriously short, so longer OALs may experience a problem.

I've only heard of that problem with a few compact models; never heard of it with full-size models. (The barrels are subtly different -- different locking lugs in addition to the different lengths.)

If you know it to be a problem with your CZ, first call, and then send the barrel back to CZ (CZ-USA) and they'll modify the chamber.

Sparks1957 · October 2, 2012, 07:08 AM

Quote:

I've only heard of that problem with a few compact models; never heard of it with full-size models

Thanks for that clarification, Walt

chris in va · October 2, 2012, 09:39 AM

CZ ships their guns and magazines wih notoriously weak springs. I had bad feeding issues when I got my 75bd. MecGar mags cleared that up. Ditto for my new p01, the factory 14 rd wouldn't work with the bullet profile I was using, but fed fine using the 16rd MecGar left over from the 75 sale.

The MecGar springs actually thicker and much stronger.

Pilot · October 2, 2012, 09:41 AM

You can also swap out the CZ mag springs, and other springs with Wolff springs. This is what I've done.

TunnelRat · October 2, 2012, 09:49 AM

When I had my P01 I fed all sorts of stuff through it out of box. Definitely didn't have an issue with Federal American Eagle 147 gr.

If you found a load that works reliably, what's your concern exactly?

SteelChickenShooter · October 2, 2012, 02:53 PM

I could swap CZ springs, but then I'd have to swap Glock springs. Auto's are not so simple anymore with such an abundance of ammo brands. All having pro's and con's and many of them having different results among pistol brands. In my case I'd like to learn exactly why some of these rounds bind in the magazine so I know what to look for and what to avoid. I may never know exactly. Would not be surprised if I learn my premium ammo works fine, so I may just abandon trying to figure it out and run with what works best.
One thing is certainly true- I'm glad these bullets fell out of my magazine at a time when I was showing the gun to a friend instead of needing to rely on them for protection.

September 28, 2012, 08:20 PM	#1
pturner67 Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2006 Posts: 737	Quick question for the CZ 75 owners I have a CZ 75 SP-01 Tactical 9mm. It's a terrific gun. A while back, I bought some Georgia Arms 9MM 147gr Jacketed Hollow Point +P ammunition and my CZ hated the ammo. It would fire the round but the next round would fail to load. I replaced with Federal HST 147gr and it worked perfectly. I'm going to the gun show tomorrow and will be looking at Hornady Critical Duty 135gr +P while I'm there. I've tried the Critical Defense 115gr and it worked just fine. Has anyone here used Critical Duty in their CZ 75? If so, how did it function? I'm wondering what would cause the Georgia Arms ammunition to not work in my CZ. Maybe the +P factor? Thanks in advance for your input.

September 28, 2012, 10:11 PM	#4
loose_holster_dan Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2011 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 2,461	i actually don't have any hollow points through any of my cz's. should probably try them before i start carrying my pcr... that said, i haven't had problems with the heavier speer gold dots in my walthers. might give them a try. __________________ Favorite range gun for the money - CZ 75B or STI Spartan V 9mm Go-to carry setup - Walther PPS or PPQ in FIST kydex holster 1AK Favorite semi-auto design - HK P7 "A Sig is like a lightsaber - not as clumsy or random as a Glock."

September 29, 2012, 07:15 AM	#5
Pilot Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2000 Posts: 4,193	There may be a problem with the OAL of the cartridge. You may want to compare the length with some other cartridges to see if these are longer than the ones that work. __________________ Pilot

September 29, 2012, 08:36 AM	#7
IMightBeWrong Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 2009 Posts: 814	I had a P-01 as well for about a year that loved Golden Sabers. It's a well proven JHP as well, I'd take it over any of the new Hornady Critical whatevers on the market. __________________ "Intelligence is nothing more than discussing things with others. Limitless wisdom comes of this." - 山本常朝

September 30, 2012, 02:09 PM	#15
Pilot Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2000 Posts: 4,193	I reload 9MM with 115 grain LSWC, and have to seat them very deep for them to reliably feed in my 75B. I don't have to worry about them in my Browning Hi Power. I will try then in my PCR which has never had a stoppage of any kind in 12 years of ownership. I suspect my 75B's issues were with my reloads which were a bit to long. __________________ Pilot

September 28, 2012, 08:23 PM	#2
myshoulderissore Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2010 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 447	I'll be shooting 50 rounds of critical duty tomorrow morning through my P01, I'll post how they go!

September 28, 2012, 09:09 PM	#3
pturner67 Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2006 Posts: 737	thanks myshoulderissore...appreciate it...great name by the way

September 29, 2012, 07:22 AM	#6
Sparks1957 Senior Member Join Date: September 4, 2011 Location: Vermont Posts: 1,552	CZ chambers are notoriously short, so longer OALs may experience a problem. I like Golden Sabers, and I don't have trouble with them in any of my CZs

September 29, 2012, 10:10 AM	#8
irish52084 Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2011 Location: Washington, the state, not that "other" one. Posts: 514	I'd guess the OAL was a tad long on that 147 load. I've run just about every brand or HP through my SP-01 and never had a problem. My go to load is either the Speer gold dot 124+P+ or the 115+P+. Both function reliably in my pistol and both are good performers.

September 29, 2012, 04:08 PM	#9
skiwi Junior Member Join Date: September 1, 2012 Posts: 2	polishing the feed ramp would be a good idea. Try the problematic ammo after.

September 29, 2012, 04:15 PM	#10
pturner67 Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2006 Posts: 737	Thanks guys. I went to the gun show today and compared the OAL the GA Arms 147 +P, Federal 147 HST, Federal 124 HST and there is definitely a difference. The vendors would not let me leave the table with the product so I did not get a chance to compare the Hornady Crit Duty/Defense with the others. I know the Hornady Crit Defense works perfectly in my CZ so I guess I will wait to hear any input on the Crit Duty. If anyone in here has any of the above ammunition and can measure the OAL between them, I'd appreciate it. Thanks again for the responses. ps- for anyone in the VA/MD/DC area, the Dulles gun show was packed today

September 29, 2012, 04:17 PM	#11
pturner67 Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2006 Posts: 737	skiwi, I clean the gun and feed ramp after every trip to the range...the feed ramp is clean and very slick...as for polishing, can you please explain? thanks

September 29, 2012, 04:25 PM	#12
pturner67 Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2006 Posts: 737	skiwi, I just saw a few videos on yuotube on polishing the feed ramp. Thanks for the suggestion.

September 29, 2012, 04:30 PM	#13
myshoulderissore Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2010 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 447	By the way, shot all sorts of ammo through my P-01 today, and not even a hint of a problem, Critical Duty included... Also, tons of fun!

September 29, 2012, 04:33 PM	#14
pturner67 Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2006 Posts: 737	Thanks myshoulderissore!!

September 30, 2012, 02:34 PM	#16
SteelChickenShooter Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2011 Posts: 863	I've noticed problems with rounds jamming in CZ magazines, so I tried those same rounds in Glock magazines with the same results. Some bind, fail to pop up to the top, so those rounds above can simply fall out. I took weights and measures finding 3 distinct catagories of weight and three distinct catagories on over all length. These bullets were a mix of PMC and Winchester. They appear to be the bargain items and not the premium. To experiment, I've loaded multiple CZ and Glock magazines with some premium ammo brands to see if there will be any malfunctions. Loading some of these rounds into a magazine intended for personal defense, letting the magazines sit idle for days or weeks, and then having failures to function because they are bound up unable to feed would be a bad thing. I also began to have an idea that these kinds of problems might only take place in a double stack magazine because after the top three or four rounds fell out, the jammed rounds looked cockeyed down inside. I thought perhaps a single stack magazine would prevent this sort of failure. Therefore a single stack could be more reliable when in urgent need. The concept of a higher round count and more capacity sort of goes out the window if the bullets cannot reach the top of the mag and load into the chamber. In my present trial, I am using 115g +P only. Not 124's or 147's at this time. Looking at this mix of rounds that do not work well, it looks like there could be a mix of different weights and I see 29.3mm as a short and a 29.8mm as a long.

September 30, 2012, 02:49 PM	#17
KevK. Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2012 Posts: 137	I did own a CZ 75 (pre -b). 115, and 124 grain ammo, I never had a problem feeding. The 147 for certain rounds it didn't like at all and got plenty of FTF. Which at the time led me to believe that it was the shape of the bullet and how it hit the feed ramp. I polished up the feed ramp, and never had problems with anything I shot out of it. __________________ CZ82, S&W Mod. 65 .357, Marlin 22mn (22WMR), Mossberg 500.

October 1, 2012, 03:25 PM	#18
SteelChickenShooter Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2011 Posts: 863	To clarify, in my case, I can load these "bad" rounds into the magazine. Slap the botton, slap the back so they are all well seated in place and then pop them off. No failures to feed, no issues with the feed ramp. What I describe is a case where the rounds are loaded but then not fired. They sit in the magazine for days or weeks or so, and the upper couple or several rounds can simply drop out of the magazine while the magazine follower, spring, and problem rounds are stuck in place. Dump the loose rounds out. Slap the bottom and I can get a pair of bullets trying to get out at the same time. They are stuck with no way out under normal use. I used a tool to push one back in order to allow the uppermost one to come out. Another aspect of this I did not mention is something else I've been looking at. That is the jacket or cladding on some of these hollowpoints are irregular. They are not uniform in shape. Some have high spots and I thought maybe those high spots on the longer OAL rounds might be binding in the magazine. This is easily seen using a digital caliper. Measure OAL, rotate the round a quarter turn, and a longer or shorter measure may result. My plan is to use an optical comparator in addition to the basic OAL measures to see how premium hollowpoint ammo might compare to the cheaper versions. I'd be looking for uniformity, or lack of it, concerning OAL and shape of the nose.

October 2, 2012, 06:05 AM	#19
Pico Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2002 Location: Ga Posts: 515	Georgia Arms 147gm 9mm jhp I had some chambering issues with this round in my Ruger SR9-C. Not with my cz-75bd though. All other GA Arms ammo has been consistently beyond expectations. Pico

October 2, 2012, 09:39 AM	#22
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	CZ ships their guns and magazines wih notoriously weak springs. I had bad feeding issues when I got my 75bd. MecGar mags cleared that up. Ditto for my new p01, the factory 14 rd wouldn't work with the bullet profile I was using, but fed fine using the 16rd MecGar left over from the 75 sale. The MecGar springs actually thicker and much stronger.

October 2, 2012, 09:41 AM	#23
Pilot Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2000 Posts: 4,193	You can also swap out the CZ mag springs, and other springs with Wolff springs. This is what I've done. __________________ Pilot

October 2, 2012, 09:49 AM	#24
TunnelRat Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 12,212	When I had my P01 I fed all sorts of stuff through it out of box. Definitely didn't have an issue with Federal American Eagle 147 gr. If you found a load that works reliably, what's your concern exactly? __________________ Know the status of your weapon Keep your muzzle oriented so that no one will be hurt if the firearm discharges Keep your finger off the trigger until you have an adequate sight picture Maintain situational awareness

October 2, 2012, 02:53 PM	#25
SteelChickenShooter Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2011 Posts: 863	I could swap CZ springs, but then I'd have to swap Glock springs. Auto's are not so simple anymore with such an abundance of ammo brands. All having pro's and con's and many of them having different results among pistol brands. In my case I'd like to learn exactly why some of these rounds bind in the magazine so I know what to look for and what to avoid. I may never know exactly. Would not be surprised if I learn my premium ammo works fine, so I may just abandon trying to figure it out and run with what works best. One thing is certainly true- I'm glad these bullets fell out of my magazine at a time when I was showing the gun to a friend instead of needing to rely on them for protection.