Considering a fire/gun safe...

[thedaddycat]

I have been considering getting a fire/gun safe instead of a new rifle after looking at things going on all over. I've looked at several makers online and like a lot of things today, after a while it's just information overload.

At least I have decided on some of the features I require and others that I would like. What I would like is for those of you with input to help steer me in the right direction. Any pros/cons for certain makers, lock styles, etc. would be appreciated. I don't care if it's your direct experience or what you know from a friend or family member. This will be a fairly pricey investment, somewhere in the $2500 range, and like everyone else I want to get the best one I can for my money...

Required:

Minimum 2 hour fire rating. I've seen some rated at 1200*F and some at 1880*F. Higher is better but not an absolute must have.

20-40 gun storage capacity. Big enough to hold everything and have room for what the future may hold.

Desirable:

Electrical outlet wired-through
Interior lighting
Key locking dial or electronic keypad

The Patriot units look pretty good so far but I have not looked at everything I intend to as of yet.

Thanks in advance for any input or insight you are willing to share.

[Technosavant]

Two hour rating?

That's asking quite a bit. Where do you plan on placing the safe? If you put it in the basement, temperatures in a fire tend to be rather lower than on an upper floor. If you live somewhere with decent fire protection, I think you might be looking overkill on that.

Keep in mind that the "X guns held" ratings are usually quite optimistic. Sure, a 40 gun safe will hold 40 guns... IF they're all iron sighted .22s. Start introducing scopes and ARs or AKs, and that number drops off FAST.

You will also run into weight issues- the more secure a safe is from burglary or fire, the heavier it will be. Start getting up past 1000 pounds, and you may have issues putting it anywhere but on a concrete floor (say, in a garage or basement, and it needs to be a walk-out basement since the stairs won't hold that kind of weight).

I'm really not sure you'll find what you want for $2500, especially if you have it delivered or installed (and these are way too heavy for the average guy to throw in a pickup truck or manhandle into place in the house).

I have the AmSec BF 6030, and it's a great safe- probably the best bang for the buck you're likely to find. I'd say to maybe see if there's an actual safe company in your vicinity and talk to them; not a retailer who happens to sell safes, but one who specializes in them (you can see who these bigger retailers use for delivery/installation... that can point you in the right direction). I skipped the local big box outdoor shops and went right past a Liberty Safe dealer to do business with a local safe & vault locksmith. I don't regret doing that; not one little bit.

[Don P]

Take a look at this web sight and he is also a member of this forum. I purchased a safe through him and it was a better deal than I was able to get locally.


www.zykansafe.com

[SDDL-UP]

I have a mid sized Fort Knox with a double thickness door, I couldn't be happier... except I've outgrowm it! If I ever get another it will be in the form of a VAULT DOOR and build my own safe!

[thedaddycat]

First off, sorry to the Moderator who moved this post. I thought I had started it in the General Discussion forum, thank you for rectifying my error.

I want the two hour fire rating because I plan on storing important paperwork and my stamp collection in it. I had this stamp collection as a kid and my dad and I worked on it together. It's nothing special but my dad is in his 80's now and I want to protect the memories more than the stamps themselves. I realize that I could probably get by with a 90 minute/1200* rating, but I subscribe to the "more is better" outlook.

The Patriot safe I was looking at is rated for two hours at 1880*.

http://www.patriotsafe.com/Collector...al-_p_491.html

I have a raised ranch so I will have the safe brought in through the garage and into the basement. There isn't enough room for anything of decent size upstairs, anyhow.

I will check out the safes and sites referenced to see what they have for features and prices. Thanks to all of you for your input. I truly appreciate you taking the time to respond to my post.

[Technosavant]

For important papers, gun safes are not ideal. You'd be better off with a small fire safe intended for papers and documents (the fireproofing is of a different type... it will protect papers better). You can put that inside the safe (some guys do). Just be mindful that stairs tend to max out at about 1000 pounds (there's also dimensional issues too, depending on the stairs).

For me, the American Security BF6030 was as big and heavy as I could get into my basement... any larger wouldn't fit down the stairs, any heavier would have been too much load.

[Adirondack]

I'd also suggest checking out Sturdy gun safe as well. They use ceramic fiber and high temperature glass fiber insulation for fire protection, it's a fire protection barrier designed for that purpose. On their website, they have a customer whose home completely burned down yet the contents of his fire lined Sturdy suffered no damage at all even with a 90 minutes burn time. Their safes are a great value IMO: tight tolerances, quality materials, ingenious design, heavy steel for the class and customer service that is top notch. They're worth checking out and speaking with even if you are thinking of buying another safe, the owner will give good advice of what to be looking for.

http://www.sturdysafe.com/fireliner.htm

[a1abdj]

I wouldn't believe the claims that Patriot is making for one second. I wouldn't believe that they are manufacturered in the US, and I wouldn't believe their fire ratings.

AMSEC is the only manufacturer that builds a gun safe in a very similar fashion to some smaller safes in their line that carry a real UL fire rating. Even though I do not feel that their gun safes would pass the UL testing (and probably why they don't have a UL fire tag on the door) it is probably the closest thing you're going to get in a gun safe.

We have a private label safe that is built in a similar fashion to the AMSEC, yet is built better in many regards. They also cost less. The problem is that they're heavy, and still wouldn't offer the same protection against fire as a properly rated unit.

I usually suggest a multi unit approach. Buy a gun safe for the guns, and buy an "other stuff" safe for the "other stuff". You'll typically cover your bases better this way.

[gofast1320]

Don't know yak about fire ratings. BUT I do know about the locks. Get a S&G combination lock. Stay away from the electronic ones. I have seen 4 fail. Not all on the same safe.
If I was worried about important papers I'd put them in a document safe inside the gun safe.

[Elkins45]

I bought the $2000 Rhino Metals (USA made) model that Costco sells. They claim 2.5 hours of fire protection at 1200 degrees. I have no way to verify that other than to say the wallboard inside is significantly thicker than the Canon models claiming 30 minutes I compared locally. It's 1050 pounds and still I securely bolted it to the concrete. I also had them substitute a mechanical lock for the electronic one. It's a little slower than the electronic one, but much faster than having to saw through the walls if the solenoid fails.

I really have no idea how secure or how fireproof it is, and I hope to never find out. I just know that I feel a lot better about spending a little extra money now for more protection than potentially spending more later to replace stuff that doesn't survive the fire or the burglary attempt. For important papers, buying one of those cheap Sentry fire boxes and storing it inside your safe seems like a pretty high payoff strategy. That's what I have done.

Buy bigger than you imagine you will ever need. You'll find valuable non- gun things to fill it with.

[opsman]

I agree with a1abdj about Patriot. I asked for more detailed information and maybe a printed brouchure, what I got was "all the information is on our web site" and "give us a call we are here all day" Yeah the Patriot looks good, with the gloss finish and the blue lights, that is what they are hoping on to snag you with. As for them being made in the USA, be very careful, many of the so called made in the USA are only painted or partially assembled in the USA allowing them to place a sticker on the door. I have read just about everything out there and then some. a1abdj knows what he is talking about, he is a member of many forums and never have I seen him contridict himself. I am not qualified as he is, but I will say that I wouldn't give the Patriot any of my hard earned money, same goes for Sportsman Steel, and Homeland Security, the later are both the same company and have numurous complaints. Personally I refuse to purchase anything not made in the USA, but a1abdj has his own class B safes that I am tempted to purchase. But if your in the same price range as I am 2000 to 2500, The Amsec, Sturdy, Browning Medallion, Liberty Lincoln, Champion Triumph, and Summitt will all do you well. Personally I think my purchase will come down to where I am going to get the best deal. Good luck.

[opsman]

I went with the Superior Master series. I found a local dealer, well close enough anyway and I was able to get a great deal on the one I wanted. I think your asking a lot for your price range. My price range was exactly the same as yours, the Superior Master series has a 90 min rating, if your that concerned about your collection then I would put it in a firebox inside the fire rated safe.