Question 45 ACP New to reloading

Tarsyn · May 2, 2008, 01:21 AM

I am new to reloading and I purchased a used Dillon square deal progressive to reload 45 acp. Some of my questions and I hope you guys can answer are these, I am using Speer 45 TMJ SWC 185 grain .451" match bullets for reloading. My Lyman 48th edition has a listing for this type of bullet and calls for an overall length of 1.135" with a BC of .068. Now I think that is a little short. I picked up one of those small complete reloading manuals for the 45 ACP at sportsmans warehouse and for the same bullet it calls for an overall length of 1.275" with a BC of .090 (C.O.L. tested at) the Sectional density is the same at .130 for both So what gives. Are they both correct? It seems like a big difference to me. Also when setting up the last stage on my progressive, which is the stage which removes the bell and crimps the bullet, how much tolerance is one allowed. I see .4730 inches is what it is suppose to be but how much leeway does one have? Thanks and feel free to give any other advice you see fit to give.

rg1 · May 2, 2008, 04:05 AM

I haven't loaded that bullet in my 45's. Speer Manual #13 lists overall length as tested at 1.275". My Midway 45acp LoadMap manual shows pictures of 12 different 185 grain bullets, fmj's, hollowpoints, match, and flat points. Of the 12 pictures the Speer 185gr tmj bullet you're using is longer than any of the other bullets. Therefore I'd assume that they should be seated to a longer overall length than 1.135". Midways LoadMap also had the length as tested at 1.275". I'd seat a couple of dummy rounds (no powder or primer) at 1.275" and slowly cycle the slide by hand to check that the round smoothly feeds into the chamber. If it tends to hang on or below the feed ramp I'd seat them a little deeper, maybe 10 thousandths at a time until they chambered smoothly. And I'd reduce powder charges if you were going to use near maximum charges of powder with shallower seating. As far as taper crimping in your last station, I'd measure the case diameter midpoint of the seated bullet and adjust your crimp die to straighten the belled mouth to the same diameter you got mid-point of the bullet in the case. The very edge of the mouth of the case should be the same diameter or approximately .001 thousandths less but no more than .001 less. You just want to straighten the brass removing the bell. You may get someone here that has experience with that bullet and load or you could also post here:
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?
Seems there's a lot of competition, match shooters there that might have information on loading 185 match bullets??

Sevens · May 2, 2008, 07:08 AM

I would agree that if you aren't loading near a MAX load, don't worry about internal pressures due to less internal case volume, and load the round in a manner that your pistol will gobble up.

I've always found that the simplest method of finding the proper COAL for a semi-auto pistol reload is to have in hand a factory loaded round that you know feeds well in your pistol and emulate that round.

The advice in the post before mine is good stuff, but I would argue one point-- When testing your dummy rounds, don't baby ANYTHING-- put the pistol through the stress and slam and whack of it's normal operation. You want not only to see if these will feed properly, you want to make sure they won't have any bullet setback, either. I'll typically make up 5 or more rounds and hand-chuck through my semi-auto in a fast and forceful manner, chambering and ejecting rounds, sending them flying as if I were shooting rapid fire. I am testing if they'll feed and chamber under firing conditions, so I won't go slow or baby it.

As for questions about where and how your progressive machine crimps, there's nobody better to ask than the folks at Dillon. They are set up to answer these questions and part of their sales package is this kind of help. If someone here as a SDB press, you might get some hands-on help, but I would call Dillon and speed up the process.

wingman · May 2, 2008, 08:22 AM

In my experience the biggest mistake most people make loading 45acp is expanding the case too much which will cause setback when loading the round, just expand enough to let the bullet enter the brass too much "bell" and you'll have a weak crimp.

Tarsyn · May 2, 2008, 10:57 AM

Thanks for all the replies. When you say bullet setback do you mean the bullet being pushed back into the case during cycling of the slide? I made up two dummy rounds the first one I crimped too tight and set in too far to the case. I pulled the bullet out and loaded it again this time to recommended specifications. I also did one more. I cycled the two numerous times in my Kimber 1911 and they seemed to work great however I noticed the one that I had overcrimped, the bullet had worked its way back into the case about 3/10 of an inch. The other round was just fine. I am hoping this is because I overcrimped the bullet resulting in a looser fit. Thanks Tarsyn

wingman · May 2, 2008, 02:31 PM

Bullet setback is when the bullet moves back into the case when stripped from the magazine into the barrel, can cause pressure problems depending on amount of powder however as I stated on previous post most new loaders tend to expand mouth of case too much which will cause a weak crimp(it actually works the brass too much and makes the brass weak).

Start small, load only 10 rounds max. I know that is a pain but safety first. Read and recheck manuals or loads,over all length, etc. I like lite loads in the 45acp, super accurate, lower cost, less stress on pistol, etc.

May 2, 2008, 07:08 AM	#3
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	I would agree that if you aren't loading near a MAX load, don't worry about internal pressures due to less internal case volume, and load the round in a manner that your pistol will gobble up. I've always found that the simplest method of finding the proper COAL for a semi-auto pistol reload is to have in hand a factory loaded round that you know feeds well in your pistol and emulate that round. The advice in the post before mine is good stuff, but I would argue one point-- When testing your dummy rounds, don't baby ANYTHING-- put the pistol through the stress and slam and whack of it's normal operation. You want not only to see if these will feed properly, you want to make sure they won't have any bullet setback, either. I'll typically make up 5 or more rounds and hand-chuck through my semi-auto in a fast and forceful manner, chambering and ejecting rounds, sending them flying as if I were shooting rapid fire. I am testing if they'll feed and chamber under firing conditions, so I won't go slow or baby it. As for questions about where and how your progressive machine crimps, there's nobody better to ask than the folks at Dillon. They are set up to answer these questions and part of their sales package is this kind of help. If someone here as a SDB press, you might get some hands-on help, but I would call Dillon and speed up the process. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

May 2, 2008, 01:21 AM	#1
Tarsyn Junior Member Join Date: May 2, 2008 Posts: 5	Question 45 ACP New to reloading I am new to reloading and I purchased a used Dillon square deal progressive to reload 45 acp. Some of my questions and I hope you guys can answer are these, I am using Speer 45 TMJ SWC 185 grain .451" match bullets for reloading. My Lyman 48th edition has a listing for this type of bullet and calls for an overall length of 1.135" with a BC of .068. Now I think that is a little short. I picked up one of those small complete reloading manuals for the 45 ACP at sportsmans warehouse and for the same bullet it calls for an overall length of 1.275" with a BC of .090 (C.O.L. tested at) the Sectional density is the same at .130 for both So what gives. Are they both correct? It seems like a big difference to me. Also when setting up the last stage on my progressive, which is the stage which removes the bell and crimps the bullet, how much tolerance is one allowed. I see .4730 inches is what it is suppose to be but how much leeway does one have? Thanks and feel free to give any other advice you see fit to give.

May 2, 2008, 04:05 AM	#2
rg1 Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2001 Posts: 1,125	I haven't loaded that bullet in my 45's. Speer Manual #13 lists overall length as tested at 1.275". My Midway 45acp LoadMap manual shows pictures of 12 different 185 grain bullets, fmj's, hollowpoints, match, and flat points. Of the 12 pictures the Speer 185gr tmj bullet you're using is longer than any of the other bullets. Therefore I'd assume that they should be seated to a longer overall length than 1.135". Midways LoadMap also had the length as tested at 1.275". I'd seat a couple of dummy rounds (no powder or primer) at 1.275" and slowly cycle the slide by hand to check that the round smoothly feeds into the chamber. If it tends to hang on or below the feed ramp I'd seat them a little deeper, maybe 10 thousandths at a time until they chambered smoothly. And I'd reduce powder charges if you were going to use near maximum charges of powder with shallower seating. As far as taper crimping in your last station, I'd measure the case diameter midpoint of the seated bullet and adjust your crimp die to straighten the belled mouth to the same diameter you got mid-point of the bullet in the case. The very edge of the mouth of the case should be the same diameter or approximately .001 thousandths less but no more than .001 less. You just want to straighten the brass removing the bell. You may get someone here that has experience with that bullet and load or you could also post here: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php? Seems there's a lot of competition, match shooters there that might have information on loading 185 match bullets??

May 2, 2008, 08:22 AM	#4
wingman Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2002 Posts: 2,108	In my experience the biggest mistake most people make loading 45acp is expanding the case too much which will cause setback when loading the round, just expand enough to let the bullet enter the brass too much "bell" and you'll have a weak crimp.

May 2, 2008, 10:57 AM	#5
Tarsyn Junior Member Join Date: May 2, 2008 Posts: 5	Thanks for all the replies. When you say bullet setback do you mean the bullet being pushed back into the case during cycling of the slide? I made up two dummy rounds the first one I crimped too tight and set in too far to the case. I pulled the bullet out and loaded it again this time to recommended specifications. I also did one more. I cycled the two numerous times in my Kimber 1911 and they seemed to work great however I noticed the one that I had overcrimped, the bullet had worked its way back into the case about 3/10 of an inch. The other round was just fine. I am hoping this is because I overcrimped the bullet resulting in a looser fit. Thanks Tarsyn

May 2, 2008, 02:31 PM	#6
wingman Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2002 Posts: 2,108	Bullet setback is when the bullet moves back into the case when stripped from the magazine into the barrel, can cause pressure problems depending on amount of powder however as I stated on previous post most new loaders tend to expand mouth of case too much which will cause a weak crimp(it actually works the brass too much and makes the brass weak). Start small, load only 10 rounds max. I know that is a pain but safety first. Read and recheck manuals or loads,over all length, etc. I like lite loads in the 45acp, super accurate, lower cost, less stress on pistol, etc.