Federal, all states carry license. - Page 2

Erik · January 12, 2010, 10:51 PM

I've always wondered when a proposition linking a federal permit to a cherry-picker, i.e. lenient, federal agency firearms program would surface. I wonder still...

TexasFats · January 13, 2010, 01:14 PM

Does anybody here want Eric Holder, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, and the rest of the Obama crowd writing regulations for concealed carry? I sure don't. The qualifications would be so expensive and onerous that only the very wealthy could meet them.

Micropterus · January 17, 2010, 09:33 PM

A federal law probably wouldn't pass constitutional muster. It would interfere with powers traditionally left to the states.

bblatt11 · January 18, 2010, 03:48 AM

First off all, not everyone is a fan of the UCC or other so-called uniform statutes, which are frankly not all that uniform. Sure, having a general idea of the law in another state is nice, but you still have to read the statute closely to figure out what the State decided to keep and discard from the proposed uniform language.

Second, a Federal CCL would be based on a statute that was poorly written, full of obscure restrictions, and neglected to account for the impact of other federal laws. Plus, being a federal program, it would become manadatory to have a federal license within one year of passage, but it would take 5-15 years to implement the licensing procedure.

I'd rather just travel along scenic routes and every now and then curse the fact that I have to stop and disarm to travel through certain states and cities.

maestro pistolero · January 18, 2010, 11:35 AM

As already stated here, it is much stronger if it comes from the states. Think of the difference between a single strand of rope (federal CCW license) and a net made of that same rope (individual states with mutual or obligatory reciprocity)

Bluesfan · January 18, 2010, 04:40 PM

bblatt,if you look at the posted threads there is always someone wanting advice on ccw laws in various states,including the posters own. I think some continuity among the states that grant reciprocity would go a long way toward keeping us all law abiding citizens.
As for your second paragraph....Huh?

bblatt11 · January 18, 2010, 08:39 PM

Bluesfan,

the implementation of federal statutes is not always well thought out. Frequently a new law is "so important" that it has to go into effect quickly, when in fact the infrastructure for enforcing and overseeing the new law or regulation will take a lot longer to put into place.

For instance: the IRS has adopted new fee structures to encourage people to use an online aide when filing for a 501(c). Problem: The fee structure began Jan. 1, the online aide will be available sometime in 2010, maybe.

I can see a Federal CCL program with an early start date but no way to issue such licenses or track applicants for some time. And that's besides what's already been pointed out - a Federal CCL would be weaker than my current state CCL.

Bluesfan · January 18, 2010, 08:54 PM

bblatt,
I think there is some confusion. I was not advocating any federal involvement in the state ccw law. However there needs to be some uniformity anong the states that allow ccw and grant reciprocity so that ccw holders traveling from one state to another can do so without prior extensive legal research.
I do agree that this is probably not a priority for most legislatures and would take forever to pass.
Just my suggestion regarding a concern many TFL members seem to have.

Chaz88 · January 18, 2010, 09:15 PM

Quote:

A federal law probably wouldn't pass constitutional muster. It would interfere with powers traditionally left to the states.

Since when do the feds worry about the constitution when interfering with state law and individual rights?

Micropterus · January 18, 2010, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Since when do the feds worry about the constitution when interfering with state law and individual rights?

They don't. But the Supreme Court does. Study the first Gun-Free School Zone Act. I believe the basis that rendered that law unconstitutional would render a national CWP law unconstitutional. Of course, if lawmakers could tie an "interstate commerce" issue to it, well then, we would have another matter.

Chaz88 · January 18, 2010, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Study the first Gun-Free School Zone Act.

Are the current ones all state laws? Or did they find a way to appease the court?

Chaz88 · January 18, 2010, 09:25 PM

How would you go about having a CCP treated like drivers licenses are?

Micropterus · January 18, 2010, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Are the current ones all state laws? Or did they find a way to appease the court?

The first law was found unconstitutional essentially because lawmakers overstepped their power and attempted to regulate was was essentially a states issue. Regulation of interstate commece is within their powers. So, they tied "interstate commerce" wording to it and repassed it under the assumption it would pass constitutional scrutiny. AFAIK, there have been no challenges to the new act.

Chaz88 · January 18, 2010, 10:03 PM

Quote:

they tied "interstate commerce"

It is amazing what can be tied to interstate commerce. I just noticed my daughters grade school crossing state lines the other day.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want criminals bringing guns into my daughters school. But do the criminals adhere to the zones and follow the law? I would not mind qualified teachers having a gun to protect my daughter if the BG's show up. No I don't think a "qualified" teacher would loose it and shoot the kids. If that was likely most parents would no longer have kids.

January 12, 2010, 10:51 PM	#26
Erik Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 1999 Location: America Posts: 3,479	I've always wondered when a proposition linking a federal permit to a cherry-picker, i.e. lenient, federal agency firearms program would surface. I wonder still... __________________ Meriam Webster's: Main Entry: ci·vil·ian Pronunciation: \sə-ˈvil-yən also -ˈvi-yən\, Function: noun, Date: 14th century, 1: a specialist in Roman or modern civil law, 2 a: one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force b: outsider 1, — civilian adjective

January 13, 2010, 01:14 PM	#27
TexasFats Senior Member Join Date: June 12, 2007 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 130	Does anybody here want Eric Holder, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, and the rest of the Obama crowd writing regulations for concealed carry? I sure don't. The qualifications would be so expensive and onerous that only the very wealthy could meet them. __________________ Gun laws are designed to extend and solidify the power of an elite over a peasantry. Sauron lives, and his orc minions are on the march.

January 17, 2010, 09:33 PM	#28
Micropterus Senior Member Join Date: August 29, 2009 Location: Newport News, Virginia Posts: 306	A federal law probably wouldn't pass constitutional muster. It would interfere with powers traditionally left to the states. __________________ Regards, Rowland

January 18, 2010, 03:48 AM	#29
bblatt11 Member Join Date: January 15, 2010 Location: Indiana Posts: 30	First off all, not everyone is a fan of the UCC or other so-called uniform statutes, which are frankly not all that uniform. Sure, having a general idea of the law in another state is nice, but you still have to read the statute closely to figure out what the State decided to keep and discard from the proposed uniform language. Second, a Federal CCL would be based on a statute that was poorly written, full of obscure restrictions, and neglected to account for the impact of other federal laws. Plus, being a federal program, it would become manadatory to have a federal license within one year of passage, but it would take 5-15 years to implement the licensing procedure. I'd rather just travel along scenic routes and every now and then curse the fact that I have to stop and disarm to travel through certain states and cities. __________________ Please do not rely on the above as legal advice. I am not your attorney, you are not paying me to advise you, I only practice in Indiana, and we have no attorney-client confidential relationship.

January 18, 2010, 08:39 PM	#32
bblatt11 Member Join Date: January 15, 2010 Location: Indiana Posts: 30	Bluesfan, the implementation of federal statutes is not always well thought out. Frequently a new law is "so important" that it has to go into effect quickly, when in fact the infrastructure for enforcing and overseeing the new law or regulation will take a lot longer to put into place. For instance: the IRS has adopted new fee structures to encourage people to use an online aide when filing for a 501(c). Problem: The fee structure began Jan. 1, the online aide will be available sometime in 2010, maybe. I can see a Federal CCL program with an early start date but no way to issue such licenses or track applicants for some time. And that's besides what's already been pointed out - a Federal CCL would be weaker than my current state CCL. __________________ Please do not rely on the above as legal advice. I am not your attorney, you are not paying me to advise you, I only practice in Indiana, and we have no attorney-client confidential relationship.

January 18, 2010, 11:35 AM	#30
maestro pistolero Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 2007 Posts: 2,153	As already stated here, it is much stronger if it comes from the states. Think of the difference between a single strand of rope (federal CCW license) and a net made of that same rope (individual states with mutual or obligatory reciprocity)

January 18, 2010, 04:40 PM	#31
Bluesfan Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2009 Posts: 102	bblatt,if you look at the posted threads there is always someone wanting advice on ccw laws in various states,including the posters own. I think some continuity among the states that grant reciprocity would go a long way toward keeping us all law abiding citizens. As for your second paragraph....Huh?

January 18, 2010, 08:54 PM	#33
Bluesfan Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2009 Posts: 102	bblatt, I think there is some confusion. I was not advocating any federal involvement in the state ccw law. However there needs to be some uniformity anong the states that allow ccw and grant reciprocity so that ccw holders traveling from one state to another can do so without prior extensive legal research. I do agree that this is probably not a priority for most legislatures and would take forever to pass. Just my suggestion regarding a concern many TFL members seem to have.

January 18, 2010, 09:25 PM	#37
Chaz88 Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2010 Posts: 1,243	How would you go about having a CCP treated like drivers licenses are? __________________ Seams like once we the people give what, at the time, seams like a reasonable inch and "they" take the unreasonable mile we can only get that mile back one inch at a time. No spelun and grammar is not my specialty. So please don't hurt my sensitive little feelings by teasing me about it.