1917 edystone bolt/firing pin mismatch

OldHoosier · December 20, 2013, 08:34 PM

I have a beat up old 1917 Eddystone that I have been fixing up. The striker pin hole in the bolt face is .0010 smaller that the diameter of the pin, consequently it won't come out. The original goobered pin had a small piece of steel soldered into the end and fired.
There must be some mismatch here! There is a new barrel on it, and I don't want to mess up the head spacing with a new bolt. But I don't know what to do about the pin fit in the bolt. Who knows about these things and where do I find out about these bolt things??

DnPRK · December 20, 2013, 10:45 PM

Smaller diameter firing pins have less likelihood of piercing primers than a larger diameter firing pin. I'd polish the firing pin down to where it had a couple tenth thousandths clearance and be happy.

James K · December 20, 2013, 11:19 PM

I suspect a previous owner had reduced firing pin spring tension to the point where he was getting "pierced" primers, and so had the hole in the bolt welded up and redrilled to a smaller size and a firing pin made to match. If firing pin protrusion is OK, I see no reason not to just use it with that firing pin or, with only that much difference, do as DnPRK suggests.

Jim

F. Guffey · December 21, 2013, 08:21 AM

"and I don't want to mess up the head spacing with a new bolt. But I don't know what to do about the pin fit in the bolt"

It is assumed replacing the bolt will alter/change the length of the chamber from the shoulder/datum to the bolt face.

Then the part about "Who knows", that reminds me of 'The shadow'.

I have 35 03 type bolts, I have 2 boxes of 03 replacements bolts with two bolts in each box, there is not .001" difference in the effect the bolts have on the length of the chamber. AND, that has never made sense, seems if a rifle was being repaired the armorer should have a choice. Both boxes are Brown and Sharp.

When ordering a replacement bolt, there are only two people in the world I can call when ordering a bolt that fits, or as we three say when ordering a bolt that does not change the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face. We also use the term head space. That also goes for shortening and on increasing the length of the chamber, everyone else has to order a bucket of bolts and hope they get lucky.

I also have armorers bolts.

F. Guffey · December 21, 2013, 08:34 AM

"The striker pin hole in the bolt face is .0010 smaller that the diameter of the pin, consequently it won't come out"

It is not my nature to talk nasty but in the way I read your problem with the firing pin it sounds like you have a dog knot situation.

The firing pin protrudes through the hole, the firing pin must be smaller in diameter. It sounds to me like someone welded/braced an extension to the end of the pin. I would suggest a new/another pin, and then? I wonder, if the end of the pin is upset/larger in diameter, how is it possible to cock the rifle without the pin locking up in the hole.

F. Guffey

OldHoosier · December 22, 2013, 01:35 PM

The old goobered pin worked in the past. It's any new pin I put in that won't come out of the hole. I'll run a few dummy rounds thru it, as the cartridge didn't seat properly with the new pin. Cock on closing.
Here's the problem: The firing pins I have tried, all from reputable milsurp folks, have been too big for the bolt. I don't want to use the old soldered pin, because it's a pretty bad job, and will probably break within a short time.

I've read that there were two sizes of pins for that rifle ,one being smaller dia. in it's first incarnation (or application). I may be using the old bolt body and the newer pin size. It would be great to just buy the whole complete unmodified bolt designed to this model the rifle (assuming it fits into the newly installed Shilen barrel (brand new) and just solve the problem. Happy to purchase one if someone wants to sell it. I can also try to hand polish the new pin diameter down with abrasive paper to a tad smaller than the bolt hole. Don't know the best way to go. parts rifle anyhow.

PetahW · December 22, 2013, 10:10 PM

.

I would suggest you reduce the diameter of the "too fat" FP tip until it's a tad smaller than the hole. (as suggested above)

THEN check for proper protrusion.

.

James K · December 22, 2013, 11:50 PM

There is one possibility I didn't think of earlier, and that is that your 1917 has a Pattern 1914 bolt in it. The M1917 firing pin tip measures about .077", while a P14 firing pin measures about .059". The bolt holes are .082" and .065" respectively.

The two bolts are not normally interchangeable, but a P14 bolt could be installed in a Model 1917 with a bit of work. If someone did that, the hole in the bolt would be too small for a Model 1917 firing pin. Of course, if a new barrel was being installed, it would be made to fit the bolt that was in the rifle.

Jim

F. Guffey · December 23, 2013, 11:14 AM

Old Hoosier, need help, do you know what chamber the new barrel has? I have 6 P14s and M1917s in various stages of becoming something else, if the barrel has a magnum chamber using a P14 bolt makes the job easier.

And I would suggest you look up into the receiver at the end of the barrel to determine if the barrel face is concaved/cone shaped. If the barrel does not have the cone there are other questions to be answered.

F. Guffey

gyvel · December 27, 2013, 12:35 AM

What James K said ^^^^^

That was my first thought.

OldHoosier · January 1, 2014, 06:45 PM

My theory was originally that it was a P14 bolt, but could find zero specs or info anywhere.

Measured the bolt hole at .065 =/- .002.
Was firing 30-06 5" pattern at 50 yds. prior to new barrel. It was ruined by extensive pitting. New barrel specs to follow.
Bolt handle stamped 1007 019 (flaming bomb) Q E* (circled D).

Brand new barrel was installed with the old bolt.

Inside of the receiver, the barrel face is conical to the base of the chamber.
All I have is a dial caliper for measurement of the tapered lug. The length of the lug is .0655 on the bolt.
The depth from the flat face of the lug (where it reaches the chamber) to the bolt face is .077. There had been, but no longer is, a centering milling done on the bolt face so the primer pocket would center the cartridge in the chamber. That was flattened off after the new barrel was installed.

Options?
1. Get a P14 firing pin??
2. Get an entirely complete P17 bolt and have it fitted to this new barrel?
3. Turn down P17 pin to correct size for bolt hole?
4. Enlarge bolt hole?
5. Use old goobered firing pin till it breaks an start over, if I live that long?

Would need a gunsmith fitting of a new bolt? Or do the specs seem ok?
I don't have headspace tools available.

Gotta say, I sure appreciate you sharing your knowledge and advice!

F. Guffey · January 3, 2014, 10:01 AM

"I don't have headspace tools available"

It is possible to measure the length of a chamber without a head space gage.
it is possible to measure a replacement bolt for the effect/change it will have on the length of the chamber.

"The depth from the flat face of the lug (where it reaches the chamber) to the bolt face is .077. There had been, but no longer is, a centering milling done on the bolt face so the primer pocket would center the cartridge in the chamber. That was flattened off after the new barrel was installed"

I will assume the bolt face was opened up, I do not know what chamber is in the replacement barrel. it is not a matter of switching bolts to go from 30/06 to a magnum chamber. There is not enough room for the 30/06 M1917 extractor between the bolt and receiver when using belted cases. The claw on the P14 is not as tall as the claw on the M1917.

Bolt measurements, There are two people I can call when looking for a bolt, that will shorten or lengthen the chamber. All I have to do is give them a measurement, most common answer is "I do not have a bolt that will shorten or lengthened your chamber", but, it never hurt to ask.

Then there is the other answer "Order 3 bolts and then hope one works", I have 30 + Springfield bolts for the 03, there is not .001" difference in all 30+.

Then there is the arsenal bolt, I have two of those.

F. Guffey

F. Guffey · January 3, 2014, 10:16 AM

I dug out a few P14s for a picture, I have not put them away, I also have a few M1917s that will not take as much time to dig out as the P14s with the red and white painted-banded around the receivers rifles, a friend called last month and ask if I was interested, he found 8, seems someone in Arkansas needed powder, they made a trade.

F. Guffey

December 20, 2013, 08:34 PM	#1
OldHoosier Junior Member Join Date: September 12, 2006 Posts: 5	1917 edystone bolt/firing pin mismatch I have a beat up old 1917 Eddystone that I have been fixing up. The striker pin hole in the bolt face is .0010 smaller that the diameter of the pin, consequently it won't come out. The original goobered pin had a small piece of steel soldered into the end and fired. There must be some mismatch here! There is a new barrel on it, and I don't want to mess up the head spacing with a new bolt. But I don't know what to do about the pin fit in the bolt. Who knows about these things and where do I find out about these bolt things??

December 22, 2013, 01:35 PM	#6
OldHoosier Junior Member Join Date: September 12, 2006 Posts: 5	The old goobered pin worked in the past. It's any new pin I put in that won't come out of the hole. I'll run a few dummy rounds thru it, as the cartridge didn't seat properly with the new pin. Cock on closing. Here's the problem: The firing pins I have tried, all from reputable milsurp folks, have been too big for the bolt. I don't want to use the old soldered pin, because it's a pretty bad job, and will probably break within a short time. I've read that there were two sizes of pins for that rifle ,one being smaller dia. in it's first incarnation (or application). I may be using the old bolt body and the newer pin size. It would be great to just buy the whole complete unmodified bolt designed to this model the rifle (assuming it fits into the newly installed Shilen barrel (brand new) and just solve the problem. Happy to purchase one if someone wants to sell it. I can also try to hand polish the new pin diameter down with abrasive paper to a tad smaller than the bolt hole. Don't know the best way to go. parts rifle anyhow. Last edited by OldHoosier; December 22, 2013 at 03:06 PM.

January 1, 2014, 06:45 PM	#11
OldHoosier Junior Member Join Date: September 12, 2006 Posts: 5	My theory was originally that it was a P14 bolt, but could find zero specs or info anywhere. Measured the bolt hole at .065 =/- .002. Was firing 30-06 5" pattern at 50 yds. prior to new barrel. It was ruined by extensive pitting. New barrel specs to follow. Bolt handle stamped 1007 019 (flaming bomb) Q E* (circled D). Brand new barrel was installed with the old bolt. Inside of the receiver, the barrel face is conical to the base of the chamber. All I have is a dial caliper for measurement of the tapered lug. The length of the lug is .0655 on the bolt. The depth from the flat face of the lug (where it reaches the chamber) to the bolt face is .077. There had been, but no longer is, a centering milling done on the bolt face so the primer pocket would center the cartridge in the chamber. That was flattened off after the new barrel was installed. Options? 1. Get a P14 firing pin?? 2. Get an entirely complete P17 bolt and have it fitted to this new barrel? 3. Turn down P17 pin to correct size for bolt hole? 4. Enlarge bolt hole? 5. Use old goobered firing pin till it breaks an start over, if I live that long? Would need a gunsmith fitting of a new bolt? Or do the specs seem ok? I don't have headspace tools available. Gotta say, I sure appreciate you sharing your knowledge and advice! Last edited by OldHoosier; January 1, 2014 at 06:51 PM.

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December 20, 2013, 10:45 PM	#2
DnPRK Senior Member Join Date: August 24, 2001 Location: LC, Ca Posts: 1,917	Smaller diameter firing pins have less likelihood of piercing primers than a larger diameter firing pin. I'd polish the firing pin down to where it had a couple tenth thousandths clearance and be happy.

December 20, 2013, 11:19 PM	#3
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I suspect a previous owner had reduced firing pin spring tension to the point where he was getting "pierced" primers, and so had the hole in the bolt welded up and redrilled to a smaller size and a firing pin made to match. If firing pin protrusion is OK, I see no reason not to just use it with that firing pin or, with only that much difference, do as DnPRK suggests. Jim

December 21, 2013, 08:21 AM	#4
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	"and I don't want to mess up the head spacing with a new bolt. But I don't know what to do about the pin fit in the bolt" It is assumed replacing the bolt will alter/change the length of the chamber from the shoulder/datum to the bolt face. Then the part about "Who knows", that reminds me of 'The shadow'. I have 35 03 type bolts, I have 2 boxes of 03 replacements bolts with two bolts in each box, there is not .001" difference in the effect the bolts have on the length of the chamber. AND, that has never made sense, seems if a rifle was being repaired the armorer should have a choice. Both boxes are Brown and Sharp. When ordering a replacement bolt, there are only two people in the world I can call when ordering a bolt that fits, or as we three say when ordering a bolt that does not change the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face. We also use the term head space. That also goes for shortening and on increasing the length of the chamber, everyone else has to order a bucket of bolts and hope they get lucky. I also have armorers bolts.

December 21, 2013, 08:34 AM	#5
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	"The striker pin hole in the bolt face is .0010 smaller that the diameter of the pin, consequently it won't come out" It is not my nature to talk nasty but in the way I read your problem with the firing pin it sounds like you have a dog knot situation. The firing pin protrudes through the hole, the firing pin must be smaller in diameter. It sounds to me like someone welded/braced an extension to the end of the pin. I would suggest a new/another pin, and then? I wonder, if the end of the pin is upset/larger in diameter, how is it possible to cock the rifle without the pin locking up in the hole. F. Guffey

December 22, 2013, 10:10 PM	#7
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	. I would suggest you reduce the diameter of the "too fat" FP tip until it's a tad smaller than the hole. (as suggested above) THEN check for proper protrusion. .

December 22, 2013, 11:50 PM	#8
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	There is one possibility I didn't think of earlier, and that is that your 1917 has a Pattern 1914 bolt in it. The M1917 firing pin tip measures about .077", while a P14 firing pin measures about .059". The bolt holes are .082" and .065" respectively. The two bolts are not normally interchangeable, but a P14 bolt could be installed in a Model 1917 with a bit of work. If someone did that, the hole in the bolt would be too small for a Model 1917 firing pin. Of course, if a new barrel was being installed, it would be made to fit the bolt that was in the rifle. Jim

December 23, 2013, 11:14 AM	#9
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	Old Hoosier, need help, do you know what chamber the new barrel has? I have 6 P14s and M1917s in various stages of becoming something else, if the barrel has a magnum chamber using a P14 bolt makes the job easier. And I would suggest you look up into the receiver at the end of the barrel to determine if the barrel face is concaved/cone shaped. If the barrel does not have the cone there are other questions to be answered. F. Guffey

December 27, 2013, 12:35 AM	#10
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	What James K said ^^^^^ That was my first thought.

January 3, 2014, 10:01 AM	#12
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	"I don't have headspace tools available" It is possible to measure the length of a chamber without a head space gage. it is possible to measure a replacement bolt for the effect/change it will have on the length of the chamber. "The depth from the flat face of the lug (where it reaches the chamber) to the bolt face is .077. There had been, but no longer is, a centering milling done on the bolt face so the primer pocket would center the cartridge in the chamber. That was flattened off after the new barrel was installed" I will assume the bolt face was opened up, I do not know what chamber is in the replacement barrel. it is not a matter of switching bolts to go from 30/06 to a magnum chamber. There is not enough room for the 30/06 M1917 extractor between the bolt and receiver when using belted cases. The claw on the P14 is not as tall as the claw on the M1917. Bolt measurements, There are two people I can call when looking for a bolt, that will shorten or lengthen the chamber. All I have to do is give them a measurement, most common answer is "I do not have a bolt that will shorten or lengthened your chamber", but, it never hurt to ask. Then there is the other answer "Order 3 bolts and then hope one works", I have 30 + Springfield bolts for the 03, there is not .001" difference in all 30+. Then there is the arsenal bolt, I have two of those. F. Guffey

January 3, 2014, 10:16 AM	#13
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	I dug out a few P14s for a picture, I have not put them away, I also have a few M1917s that will not take as much time to dig out as the P14s with the red and white painted-banded around the receivers rifles, a friend called last month and ask if I was interested, he found 8, seems someone in Arkansas needed powder, they made a trade. F. Guffey