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September 5, 2007, 08:17 AM | #26 | ||||
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Was he committing unlawful entry? It does not actually matter whether he was or not in regard to the shooter. The shooter and his wife BELIEVED the Bohemian was trying to break into their home. Given the time of day (4:00 am) and what he was doing to the door, this is a reasonable belief. So they were in fear for their lives from a home invasion. This is specifically the type of thing the grand jury will be addressing. Was it reasonable to believe that somebody trying to kick down your door at 4:00 AM was trying to break into your home? If the answer is yes, then the use of lethal force is warranted under Texas law and no offense was committed. Also, was reasonable to believe the man and his wife in fear for their lives from the person trying to kick in their door at 4:00? If the answer is yes, then lethal force is warranted under Texas law. And lastly, was the Bohemian committing a crime at night on the property of the man and his wife? If yes, then lethal force is warranted under Texas law. Quote:
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September 5, 2007, 08:39 AM | #27 |
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Actually from what I see they will press charges, and he will go to trial. The only way I am wrong is if Texas has changed law to state that it is up to the prosecution to prove the charges, instead of the home owner proving he was in the right.
In AZ, the new law states in self-defence cases, the prosecuter must show proof it was not a legal self defense. |
September 5, 2007, 09:35 AM | #28 | |
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The reason they scare me is because this type of irresponsible attitude is the exact sort of ammunition the anti-gun crowd need to convince neutrals that gun owners are irresponsible hot heads. Irresponsible gun owners are the number 1 threat to my RTKBA. |
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September 5, 2007, 12:06 PM | #29 | |
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September 5, 2007, 03:09 PM | #30 |
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I have an FN 5.7 just for shooting through doors...
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September 5, 2007, 03:32 PM | #31 |
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September 5, 2007, 04:57 PM | #32 | |
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bob
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September 5, 2007, 05:00 PM | #33 |
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Double Naught Spy
you seem to be very emotional about this topic.
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September 5, 2007, 05:03 PM | #34 |
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Update
Man who shot musician may not be charged
By PAUL J. WEBER ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER DALLAS -- The shooting death of a member of Edie Brickell & New Bohemians appears to fall under state law permitting deadly force in self-defense, police said Tuesday. A grand jury will decide whether the man who shot Jeffrey Carter Albrecht will be indicted, but Sgt. Larry Lewis said Dallas police aren't pursuing charges. Police said Albrecht, 34, was inebriated and had been fighting with his girlfriend Monday before he was shot by a neighbor of the girlfriend. The neighbor, who was not immediately identified, woke up around 4 a.m. to his wife screaming that someone was breaking into the house, police said. The neighbor yelled through the door for Albrecht to leave and then fired his handgun through the door, hitting Albrecht in the head. "He yelled several verbal warnings, 'I'll shoot! I'll shoot!'," Lewis said. "From what we gather, he fired near the top of the door, hoping he would scare the person away." The homeowner, whose identity wasn't released, was not arrested. The shooting came two days after the enactment of a new state law, nicknamed the "Castle Doctrine," that gives Texans a stronger legal right to defend themselves with deadly force in their homes, cars and workplaces. Police and prosecutors, however, said the shooter appeared to be protected under an earlier law that allows a person to protect their property with deadly force to "prevent the other's imminent commission ... of criminal mischief during the nighttime." "In an incident like that you're well within your rights under the old law, as well as the new one, to use deadly force," Dallas District Attorney Craig Watkins said. Albrecht, who went by his middle name, had been a keyboard player for New Bohemians since 1999, according to the band's Web site. His death stunned friends and those who knew him in the North Texas music community. "I am heart broken," Edie Brickell wrote in an e-mail to The Associated Press on Tuesday. "We are all completely devastated by the news of Carter's death, and obviously still quite in shock," Brandon Aly, drummer for New Bohemians, wrote in another e-mail. Albrecht played several times with Brickell's husband, Paul Simon. He also played with Texas musician Charlie Sexton, a renowned guitarist. He also played keyboard and guitar and sang for Sorta, named in 2006 as the best local music act by the Dallas Observer. Edie Brickell & New Bohemians scored a breakout hit in 1989 with "What I Am." They broke up for several years but regrouped and put out an album last year. |
September 5, 2007, 05:57 PM | #35 |
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The police are pursuing any charges because there is no indication the home owner broke any laws. The grand jury has to review the case as per Texas law because a homicide was committed, but since no laws were broken, they really won't have any reason to do anything other than no-bill the case.
Of course, the new castle doctrine law just adds another layer of defense to the situation as well. |
September 5, 2007, 07:00 PM | #36 |
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The homeowner was not charged, but according to Texas law it will go to a grand jury.It will be no billed and that will be the end of it. The musician was drunk, and had already assaulted his girlfriend. The police suspect that drugs were involved as well, pending autopsy results. Civil suits are also not allowed under the circustances.
The victims were elderly and scared to death, while this guy continued to kick the door , thinking his battered girlfriend was inside. He knew exactly what the target was, a madman trying to kick in his front door at 4:00 am. IMO he did just what he should have done. Stop the threat to his property and family. Those of you that would condemn him, obviously have not been in that situation. |
September 5, 2007, 09:52 PM | #37 |
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There has been several instances in Indiana where a homeowner has shot and killed an intruder thru their front door.
No charges have ever been brought, just the way it should be. One instance was by a off duty leo.
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September 6, 2007, 03:27 PM | #38 |
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I don't know how this one sits with me. Too often, both as a professional, and as a civilian, we are taught to identify our target before firing. To absolutely NOT identify your target in ANY WAY (ie, even SEEING the target AT ALL) just seems to be very poor judgement. How much danger are you in if you are fully awake, have a gun in your hand, and are yelling at SOMEONE thru your door? Certainly the danger is minimal enough, at that point, to wait for the cops, or for the situation to defuse itself? I mean, he has not even done any damage to the door....not quite a life or death scenario, albiet a bit frightening for sure.....
I just can't swallow imminent mortal peril, while you are awake, alert, loaded gun in hand, pointed at door..... where's the life or death situation at this point? or the SELF defense? Maybe he was defending his door's right to be kicked..... |
September 6, 2007, 03:35 PM | #39 |
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Maybe there was a window in the door that allowed identificaion. Maybe a window next to the door? Maybe he saw the perp with a weapon (gun). Maybe the perp had a gun and was yelling as soon as i get thru this door you are dead. Maybe it was a person that had previously threatened grave harm or maybe previously gravely harmed someone else that the victim knew about. Maybe the perp had a restraining order against them with extrememly violent tendencies and threats. Maybe the homeowner seen 2 men with masks and weapons run up to the door and started trying to kick it in.
I doubt if anyone is going to shoot thru a door without identifying the perp, and without feeling they are in immenent danger.
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September 6, 2007, 04:44 PM | #40 | |
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September 6, 2007, 05:02 PM | #41 | |
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September 6, 2007, 05:21 PM | #42 |
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Baton Rouge Halloween Killing
In answer to the question posed by Justme:
Wasn't it in Alabama where that guy shot a kid on halloween, because the kid went to the wrong house for a party? Obviously this is not the same situation. However, every time someone acts irresponsibly with a firearm all of us go under more scrutiny, I'd just as soon people didn't give the anti-gun crowd more ammunition. No, it was in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. The homeowner was acquitted in the criminal trial, but lost a civil suit for $650,000. My .02 JS |
September 6, 2007, 05:46 PM | #43 |
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Latest news from Dallas is that no charges will be filed.Besides the guy being drunk, he was also on smoking cessation drug, when combined with alcohol leads to bizzare behavior.
The reason the homeowners actions are accepted and not condemned on this forum, is because he was fully within his rights under Texas law. His wife called 911, he told the perp he had a gun and told him to stop and warned him several times. The perp continued with his assault on his property and they had every reason to believe they were in danger. In Texas you no longer have to retreat in fear and wait until the BG enters your house. The homeowner should be commended, not condemned. |
September 6, 2007, 06:08 PM | #44 |
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No ones giving the anti's any ammunition here, nor was he irresponsible in his action, he complied fully with current laws. I think the anti's would be poorly served in using this as a case for tougher gun laws. Do you not believe in the Castle Doctrine or are just jealous that Texas laws are more advanced than your states.
In addition, the local news just interviewed the parents of the deceased and they supported the actions of the homeowner, under those terrifying circumstances. |
September 6, 2007, 10:11 PM | #45 |
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It's pretty obvious to me the homeowner knew who the perp was. Probably from previous confrontations. He probably witnessed the young perp's violent behavior toward other people.
He didn't feel like waiting till the young strong hyped up punk got thru the door. Amen.
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September 6, 2007, 10:20 PM | #46 |
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Sorry, I just don't see it. Shoot through an interior door in your house, fine, shoot through the front door at something you can't see, not so fine. I still don't get people on a firearms forum defending a guy who shot at something he couldn't even see. What if the guy wasn't alone? What if the guy was being chased by thugs? The possibilities are endless.
Say whatever you want, shooting at something you can't see is only an option when you don't have any other choice. The law in Texas may be on this guys side, so legally he's on solid ground. Morally and ethically is a different matter. |
September 6, 2007, 10:27 PM | #47 |
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Actually, it was the back door. While the Bohemian might not have been visible through the door, the homeowners had seen the guy fairly well while he was beating on the windows. He moved from the windows to the door when they initially yelled at the guy.
Here is the 911 call. http://www.myfoxdfw.com/myfox/pages/...Y&pageId=1.1.1 The 911 call is a pretty good example of what all sorts of things that you probably should not say to the cops or the 911 person. |
September 6, 2007, 10:52 PM | #48 |
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Great link. Rather chilling call though. It sure sounded like the guy would have liked to have that bullet back. Maybe we should learn from his mistake rather than glorifying it?
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September 6, 2007, 10:59 PM | #49 |
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What a messed up blurb on the video.
"When an East Dallas man heard someone trying to break down his back door, he fired his gun once high, trying to scare the intruder off. But the bullet accidentally killed his next door neighbor."1. It wasn't his next door neighbor who was killed. 2. The shot killed the person who was trying to break down his door, the blurb makes it sound like the round travelled next door and accidentally killed his neighbor.
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September 6, 2007, 11:16 PM | #50 | |
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It's sad, but...
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There might be similar cases where it would not be morally/ethically right, but in this instance, it appears (from the fragmentary information in the media) that the homeowner had a reasonable fear for his safety. Listening to the 911 call, you could hear the fear in the wife's voice. Four AM? Banging on windows and doors? This was not a "trick or treater". Clearly, using lethal force should be a desparate, final thing. The poor man and his wife will have to live with the emotional trauma. However, I have no doubt that the proximate cause of the incident was the decedant's behavior, and that he was entirely responsible for his own tragic death. |
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