steel shot through full choke????? help

[mikenbarb]

Blacktail, PM sent. Got something you might like.

[BigJimP]

Bob

like ratingredneck told you, my understanding is shooting steel was always a function of the amount of restriction on the choke on whether you can shoot steel in the gun safely or not. On Browning chokes, which I have a lot of, and I'm most familiar with - on an Invector Plus Midas grade extended choke - marked Mod Choke on the gold band ( they used to read, and maybe still do, "Mod Lead / Full Steel" - with the concept being the Mod choke will give you a "full" pattern on steel shot and be safe to shoot in the barrel.

To my knowledge none of the chokes on the market would be damaged by running Steel shot thru them ( unless they are tighter than Mod for Lead ).

The danger is in restricting steel shot too tightly ( with a Full Lead choke ) and then you're risking damage to the barrel, not just the choke. I don't have any problem running steel shot thru some of my "target grade guns" like a Browning XS Skeet even though its a $2,500 gun - it has a chrome lined barrel and I've killed a lot of ducks with it over the years - but I've always used a "Lead IC" or "Lead Mod" choke in the gun.

There are specialy chokes on the market now - and Browning has some - Waterfowl Extended Chokes - and the book says they are designed for steel shot, and the Full choke in the Waterfowl chokes is listed at .035 the same as a "Lead Full" choke. So the more I read, the more confused I get.

All I can really tell you, is in my guns I would not shoot anything over .020 with Steel or what is traditionally a "Lead Modified" choke. By the way, sitting in a civilized duck blind in Stuttgart, Arkansas, with a couple of hand warmers in your pocket, a dry place to stand, a good dog, a guide that can call in some ducks...... and so many mallards flying - in under 2 hours, if you can't limit out, you're shooting with your eyes closed ......is not a bad way to spend a day in the Fall or early winter .

[44 AMP]

First of all, I won't shoot steel through any older gun. If the gun is marked for steel, fine. If not, no steel, no way.

You say it is an older Mossberg, any idea how old? I say this because, choke "sizes" have changed over the years. Choke diameter did not used to be a fixed diameter, but whatever degree of constriction the maker used to get the proper percentage of pattern.

My Grandfather's rule for a full choke 12ga was that a dime would balance on the muzzle. The Ithaca he bought in 1909 will balance a dime on the muzzle. Go buy a 12ga full choke (lead) today, and a dime will fall through the barrel.

In the old days, before the advent of plastic shot cups in shotgun shells, some of the pellets would get flattened by contact with the steel of the barrel, and so not fly true. Therefore it took a greater amount of constriction in the bore to get the "full choke" percentage on the pattern board. Firing steel shot through one of these older guns is extremely dangerous to the gun, and risky for the shooter as well.

If your gun was made before the steel shot rule for waterfowl, it is risky to shoot steel in it. If it was made before the 1950s (when plastic shot cups came into use in ammo), you should NEVER fire steel shot through it, if it has any choke at all, and even if cylinder bore, it isn't a good idea.

New "field grade" shotguns (like Mossbergs) are still fairly cheap, so if your shooting involves steel, you should get one. As an alternative, you might be able to get a new barrel (one made for steel shot) to use on an older gun, depending on the model of gun.

[Scattergun Bob]

Thanks for the education! I like hanging out in this special Forum, I believe there is a great volume of personal experience with firearms on tap in this site, and honest folks. Thanks for taking me in guys .

Good Luck & Be Safe

[batmann]

Late to party, but as a general rule, you want to go to a more open choke for steel shot. I have found imp cyl or modifed works pretty good for Goose and Duck.
As mentioned, steel does not compress like lead, hence a step or two up in choke is needed.
Be prepared to get hammered, steel shot is not fun to shoot. I went to Bismuth when it was avilable, but am going to try something else this year.
Fusion 'Blackcloud' is getting pretty good reviews from what I hear.

[mikenbarb]

I shoot Briley waterfowl tubes and their duck tube is cho9ked Light Mod. and their goose tube is choked Imp.Mod. and they both work extremly well with all sizes and types of non-toxic shot.
Batman, Federals Black Cloud is great for closer ranges and I have used alot of it but the problem with the flite stopper pellets is that they tend to stray after 35-40yds and the patterns get real funny at longer ranges.

[Whiteboy67]

"Never shoot steel shot through a full choke. It will eventually bulge the barrel.

Jeff"

"Never fire steel shot through a full choke. It wears the chocke, damages screw in chokes and in rare cases can cause excess pressure."

"Never fire stell shot thru a gun with a choke tighter than Modified.

Steel shot is a lot harder than lead - and will not compress like lead as it goes into the choke - so it is likely to cause a bulge in the barrel and ruin the gun. Don't do it with your gun / let alone someone else's gun."




Question: If I have NO choke, would I be ok firing this? It won't ruin my barrel or anything will it? (I finally used the search function).
Edit: I'm talking of shooting 3" 1 1/8oz steel bb's 12ga from a mossberg 590 12ga. The barrel fits 2 3/4" and 3" I believe.

[WIN71]

As 44AMP stated "older" shotguns, and for the sake of this discussion older than plastic wad ammunition shotguns, are sometimes a nightmare to figure out. Some manufactures did not even mark the choke on the barrels. During long stretches of production Parker Bros. was one of them.

Whether the barrels were drawn to shape or as with the more recent “older” barrels, mass produced prior to screw-in chokes, there was a minimum-maximum allowable inside diameter behind to the choke area. Modern barrel making has pretty much cut this size tolerance to almost zero. Choke was usually based on a percentage of pellets inside a 30 inch circle at 40 yards. It was expressed in thousandths of an inch of constriction in the choke area. Hence the above referenced .035 etc. Usually for 12 ga. the old "dime" rule would work. Sometimes not. This constriction choice in the older guns was based on loose shot traveling down the barrel. When plastic shot columns are used the patters tend to be slightly tighter. When the shot columns are full of steel shot and compressed in the choke past the point of available space higher pressure is the result. Steel does not deform and compress like lead. Personally I would not shoot steel out of anything old that was choked tighter than ic. And I think I would have a competent gunsmith who completely understands choke vs. steel check it first.

I would also be less inclined to shoot steel at all through an older double as opposed to almost any pump gun if for no other reason than the cost of replacing a wrecked set of barrels.

Almost all of these “older” gun vs. steel shot problems were eliminated with the barrel diameter consistency now attained allowing interchangeable screw-in chokes from gun to gun to give the same pattern from choke to choke.
In modern guns most agree any choke marked no tighter than modified is fine for steel. As stated before a “for steel” choke marked ‘full’ is somewhat the same as a “for lead” choke marked modified.
At least that’s the way I understand it.

[rantingredneck]

Question: If I have NO choke, would I be ok firing this? It won't ruin my barrel or anything will it? (I finally used the search function).
Edit: I'm talking of shooting 3" 1 1/8oz steel bb's 12ga from a mossberg 590 12ga. The barrel fits 2 3/4" and 3" I believe.

If you mean that your 590 is straight cylinder bore then yes you will be fine shooting steel shot out of it.

If you mean that you will remove the choke (IIRC, there are some 590 barrels that are tapped for chokes) then no, do not do it. Do not shoot any barrel that is threaded for choke tubes without a choke in place. If your gun is one threaded for chokes stick to IC or Mod and you will be fine.

[Whiteboy67]

It's the stock barrel I got with the gun, and it is not threaded for a choke. I'm not sure if I can shoot steel as it doesn't say anything about it on the barrel and I read the manual and I didn't see anything about shooting steel safely. I just don't want to wreck my gun over some shells that I would rather keep and try and re-sell for a mistaken purchase. But if I can shoot them, I'm more than happy to fire all 50 of them for fun :P

Straight cylinder bore=no threaded choke right? Just a straight, strandard barrel?

[Whiteboy67]

"Game law applies whether you're on private land or not. You can't hunt unlawfully just because you're on private property -- Unless you're in a fenced preserve and the game is private property too."

Am I not allowed to fire these? I'm not hunting anything, just shooting my gun off at targets I set up.

[troy_mclure]

to simply state that firing steel shot thru a full choke bbl is bad, is wrong.

ive got a 28" extra full goose bbl mossy 500.
its had decades of steel shot thru it.

however i also have a springfeild/j stevens sxs sawed off because of shooting steel.

its a matter of whether the bbl is built for steel shot

[Whiteboy67]

Bah screw it, I'm going to fire a few and check the barrel. If it looks fine then I'll finish off the box

[rantingredneck]

Troy,

that xfull goose barrel is intended for steel shot and is choked for steel and not lead. measure that barrel's constriction compared to a mossberg 500 xfull turkey choke and you'll see the difference.

whiteboy,

you will be fine shooting those through your cyl bore 590.

[troy_mclure]

thats what i was saying, its dependent on the gun, many bbls dont say steel OK, or lead only.

my goose bbl only says 12ga/3" x-full.

it says nothing about the ammo.

email the gun manufacturer and ask them.

[true_pair]

Here is what I found on Mossberg site
"Can I shoot steel shot through all barrels?
No, not all barrels. Barrels with an interchangeable Accu-Choke™ or Accu-Mag™ choke tube system, yes (with proper tubes installed.) However, steel shot is not recommended for older "C-Lect Choke®" or fixed-choke barrels"

BTW when I used to live in Illinois I used to shoot trap at Naperville gun club. They only allowed steel shot. I used a Winchester select energy with Carlson tubes (full and improved modified). Steel shot can be used in full choke tubes if the tubes are designed for it.

Hope this helps
Happy new year