ASM Brasser

Stormson · April 14, 2015, 08:52 PM

Well, well, well! Never saw THIS one coming LOL!

So.. I ran across a semi decent deal on an old, as-is, ASM brass frame Remmi... And the ol' lady actually let me dip into the emergency fund to buy it! $130 shipped... Eh.. Thanks to the current political and financial state of our fine Nation, our "emergency fund" now consists of about $20, a gum wrapper, and some always handy pocket lint.. But, hey, we also have one more Remmi, so I think it evens out LOL!

Some pix, before the questions, of course

Right side;

Left side;

Left side close up;

A CVA import;

ASM made;

Stormson · April 14, 2015, 08:59 PM

Now for the questions

Soooo... Yeah.. The bolt\trigger spring is busted. It was in one piece, but badly damaged when I got the gun, I finished her off barely bending the bolt side back down... Snapped right off.

I tried one of my Pietta springs and amazingly it works! Er... KINDA. While it does seem to function, it also seems a tad short and when cocked, the hammer doesnt seem to lock all the way back... It DOES seem to lock correctly (not in half cock, but full), just not back far enough... In fact its so much forward that one can only view about half of the rear sight. It should be pointed out that this SAME problem existed with the weak\busted spring.

Is this caused, first by the bad spring, then by an ill fitting one Pietta one? Or is this caused by another issue altogether?

CAN I use a Pietta spring? If not, whats my best bet for locating one designed for the ASM?

Hardy · April 15, 2015, 07:33 PM

You got a hair trigger. There is a way to make that spring longer to fit on the trigger shelf but I am afraid to tell you how to do it because experienced folks on this thread will come after me and hang me. Post a thread about this and you'll get a right answer

Doc Hoy · April 22, 2015, 02:49 PM

Double check the trigger.

Sear may be worn or broken. (I have seen that enough times that it is worth a look.)

Doubt that the Pietta spring is causing any trouble with the half cock and full cock.

As long as the spring lays in the channel in the frame, the only problem could be either too long or too short.

Too long and it will interfere with smooth trigger operation. To short and it won't catch on the trigger (No spring tension on the trigger pull.)

Stormson · April 24, 2015, 07:55 AM

Hi Doc!

Yup... Turns out the sear is actually curled over on itself. Im thinking someone dropped it on the hammer or forced it forward while it was on half cock... looks like that deep half cock would curl it over just about perfectly, like it is. Hope no one was HURT over this stupidity! But, yeah, it looks like im going to need a new spring and trigger both... waiting on funds in a week or two, then try VTI and another place that was recommended to me on another forum... If I strike out with both of them then the real hunt begins lol...

Stormson · April 24, 2015, 07:57 AM

Hardy, I'll keep that in mind if I am forced to resort to Pietta parts... gonna try for originals first, but it may turn out that way just the same.

I am interested in how that would work though, if youd just like to share anyway?

Doc Hoy · April 24, 2015, 12:55 PM

Cabelas is still selling internal parts kits for Pietta Remingtons and Colts. In fact they are on sale right now for 25.00. IK-214052 is the item number for the Remington.

Comes with a lot of parts for a low price. I think this kit will provide what you needs.

Stormson · April 24, 2015, 04:04 PM

Thanks Doc, but wouldnt it be best to try and use original ASM parts, or are they close enough to not matter?

Doc Hoy · April 24, 2015, 04:56 PM

They went out of business sometime around 93. All of the parts that remained have been picked over. There is a place in Indiana (Deer Creek) that once had some parts but they are mostly screws.

There are people who are manufacturing parts which they "say" are ASM equivalent. I don't know how close they are.

You could call Dixie Gun Works. The have parts which they will tell you are for

"Italian Replica" firearms. These are supposedly different and unique from Uberti and Pietta. I have never tried them specifically. Wait...I did buy an arbor from them a while back. I could not get it to fit in anything.

ASM had a bad (and I think only partially deserved) reputation for soft parts. If that is true then you are actually better off fitting a Pietta trigger in the pistol.

In every Remington trigger I ever worked on I paid zero attention to the match between the manufacturer of the pistol and the manufacturer of the part.

My guess is you will be okay.

Stormson · April 26, 2015, 12:38 PM

Hi Doc,

I did try the Pietta parts again, from an older (93 I believe) target vers... The problem is with the Pietta trigger in place, the Pietta spring is too short. Since its the bolt side of the original thats busted I did could fit the Pietta over the original and that works, but the curve of the Pietta spring makes it impossible to cock once the trigger guard is in place (I'd have to cut the rear of the guard off).

I have an updated Pietta 5.5" vers from 2013 but havent had the chance to try it yet... I am assuming that the Cabels parts kit will be newer stock though so I'll have give it a shot.

I guess that the worst thing that could happen is that I end up with extra parts for my Piettas, but then im still left with a dead ASM lol...

As for the original ASM parts being soft, I can believe it looking at how the sear is actually curled over the way it is...

Im debating whether to try the Cabelas parts or go with the VTI "universal/supposed to fit ASM" parts? I dont mind cutting the rear of the guard, but wish I wouldnt have to...

swathdiver · April 26, 2015, 02:00 PM

Why not call Deer Creek Products in Waldron, Indiana and get the right parts? Almost all CVAs were imported ASMs (Armi San Marcos).

Stormson · April 26, 2015, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Why not call Deer Creek Products in Waldron, Indiana and get the right parts? Almost all CVAs were imported ASMs (Armi San Marcos).

I will check there as well, and did check the website.... They have a LOT of ASM stuff, but didnt see anything Remington related... Still, it certainly cant hurt to check!

Doc Hoy · April 27, 2015, 10:21 AM

At least was the best source for ASM parts. But over the years the original parts have run through the pipeline and what is available now is parts that are supposed to be equivalent to ASM.

Used to be run by a mom and pop pair. They were super nice and had good stock. I think health issues hit them and they turned it over to a person who sounds like a younger male. Son perhaps.

Since he took over, the service is more consistent. I only ever worked with him a coupla times, but I was never put off by his attitude or approach. Seems to be genuinely interested in helping the customer.

You might also try Winchester Sutler. I bought two original ASM cylinders from him a while back. Also seems to be a mom and pop outfit. "Mom got on the phone and hollered to "Pop", "Guy on the phone is looking for ASM cylinders!"

Pop yelled, "I think I have some in the barn."

I bought what I needed. That was about five years ago.

As far as the spring being too short, you can grind them shorter but you can't grind em longer. ;o)

Doc Hoy · April 27, 2015, 10:32 AM

Which is almost always the case with me.

Deer Creek has a trigger and a spring. Total 13.00 for the parts plus shipping.

765-525-6181.

Stormson · April 27, 2015, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Deer Creek has a trigger and a spring. Total 13.00 for the parts plus shipping.

765-525-6181.

Sweet! Thanks Doc! I'll place an order with them this weekend...May still hit cabelas for the Piettas if they still have em by them too

Doc Hoy · April 27, 2015, 08:00 PM

I know that Deer Creek bought out the entire stock of ASM parts directly from ASM. I also know that they did that some years ago.

They also told me that there were jobbers who were making ASM equivalent parts. That was a coupla years ago as well.

The lady I spoke to on the phone today said that the trigger and spring are original ASM parts. I asked her specifically where the parts came from and she said they were original ASM. When I challenged her on it she said that these particular parts were purchased as part of the ASM buy-out.

In the end, it makes no difference who makes the parts. So long as the fit in the pistol and work right and reliably they could come from Procter and Gamble.

But it does make an interesting conversation.

Stormson · April 28, 2015, 07:36 AM

Quote:

In the end, it makes no difference who makes the parts. So long as the fit in the pistol and work right and reliably they could come from Procter and Gamble.

Nope, as long as they fit properly its all good... Heck these are firearms, not 57 Chevys LOL

In fact, given the softness of the originals (curled over seer) these jobbers COULD even be making better parts then the originals... Would be interesting to find out at some point.

I find that the smaller ASM grips fit my hand like a glove, and it almost points itself... If a group of folks started putting out truly high quality parts I'd start buying more ASM Remmies and a boatload of parts...

Stormson · May 9, 2015, 10:05 AM

OMG! This is turning out to be the project that JUST wont end! LOL

Got the trigger and spring... Had to do some hand fitting of course but they worked awesome, thank you guys for the heads up about deer creek, they are great!

Thing is... Now I need a hand and hand spring... I never noticed it before because it wouldnt cock at all... once fixed it would only cock when pointed down or level, not with any rise above level... checked..
yup... hand spring is weak as can be.

I asked Talara for a price check on one.. I also need grips if anyone has a finished set? I can get unfinished from them for around $40 but if I have to finish them anyway then I may just go ahead and set up a birds head style... I prefer the birds head anyway, but was hoping not to have to put too much more time in on it..

**4V50 Gary** · May 9, 2015, 11:16 AM

If you have a block of steel, you can make your own hand. Dykem the steel. Drill and hole the same diameter as the pivot pin. Now lay the original over the workpiece and trace the outline. Cut and file but make it long on the top and the cutout. You want to reduce the height slowly so as to fit it to the action. For the spring, you can use metal from a bobby pin, bend it and file that down. One it's fitted, harden it and quench in oil. The polish and temper.

Stormson · May 9, 2015, 12:06 PM

Thanks Gary! All good info... Though sadly I'm not really set up for operations like that yet, and have a long way to go in the learning dept. Was a carpenter most of my life so my skill set is based more in wood then metal... I'm slowly getting there but still have a long road ahead

For instance... What does 'Dykem the steel' mean? LOL sorry if thats a dumb question, but that pretty much where my experience level is at lol...

44 Dave · May 9, 2015, 12:17 PM

It depends on which method they used to attach the hand spring. Some can be worked out of the slot. I have one that is using part a bobby pin. After digging through my wife's pins to find an old one not made of china junk metal I was able to repair the hand to work perfectly and it has been for hundreds of rounds.

AKexpat · May 9, 2015, 04:44 PM

http://www.officesupersavers.com/vie...FQJufgod2A8AhQ

IMO, a black Sharpie pen works just as well.

Stormson · May 9, 2015, 05:32 PM

Quote:

http://www.officesupersavers.com/vie...FQJufgod2A8AhQ

IMO, a black Sharpie pen works just as well.

Ah..Ok... Now I feel stupid since I thought it was some metalworking process LOL !!!

**4V50 Gary** · May 9, 2015, 06:52 PM

Stormson, if you worked with wood as a carpenter, you can use a metal file. Most of it is file work anyway. If you have a metal vise, all the better as it will hold the workpiece steady while you file away. If you don't, get a handvise.

It's not as steady (because your hand isn't as rock solid as a bench mounted vise), but it'll make it faster than holding it with your non-dominant hand.

Dykem is a metal dye. It is used to mark the workpiece so you know when to stop cutting. As suggested, a sharpie may also be used. Dykem is removable with acetone.

Here's how I would do it.

1) locate a piece of tool steel the same thickness as the hand.
2) photocopy the hand.
3) cut out the photocopy and glue it onto the steel.
4) mark the hole where the pivot pin is.
5) drill out the hole.
6) Use a saw or mill file, cut away most of the extra steel from the workpiece.
7) Use a finer tooth file to dimension. Make sure it is longer on the top of the hand and in the second step. The first one begins the rotation of the cylinder and the second completes it.
8) fit and then polish to high shiny finish.
9) Use a torch to harden to cherry red and quench with oil.
10) polish to high shiny finish
11) Use a torch and heat to a straw color. DONE.

Stormson · May 9, 2015, 07:51 PM

Awesome! Thanks Gary!

Yeah I can work a file pretty good... Used to use plenty of different ones, along with rasps, when doing cabinet work. Have a bench vice, but in such tight quarters these days I dont have bench to mount it on LOL

... Actually never seen or used a hand file like that though, I'll have to look into them... I do still have bar and C clamps and have thought about rigging up some temporary way to mount my vice to the table, but the hand vice could very well solve a lot of problems without tearing the kitchen apart LOL !

April 14, 2015, 08:52 PM	#1
Stormson Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2014 Location: Mountains of SouthWest VA. Posts: 193	ASM Brasser Well, well, well! Never saw THIS one coming LOL! So.. I ran across a semi decent deal on an old, as-is, ASM brass frame Remmi... And the ol' lady actually let me dip into the emergency fund to buy it! $130 shipped... Eh.. Thanks to the current political and financial state of our fine Nation, our "emergency fund" now consists of about $20, a gum wrapper, and some always handy pocket lint.. But, hey, we also have one more Remmi, so I think it evens out LOL! Some pix, before the questions, of course Right side; Left side; Left side close up; A CVA import; ASM made;

April 22, 2015, 02:49 PM	#4
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Stormson.... Double check the trigger. Sear may be worn or broken. (I have seen that enough times that it is worth a look.) Doubt that the Pietta spring is causing any trouble with the half cock and full cock. As long as the spring lays in the channel in the frame, the only problem could be either too long or too short. Too long and it will interfere with smooth trigger operation. To short and it won't catch on the trigger (No spring tension on the trigger pull.) __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath. Last edited by Doc Hoy; April 22, 2015 at 02:54 PM.

April 24, 2015, 12:55 PM	#7
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Stormson, Cabelas is still selling internal parts kits for Pietta Remingtons and Colts. In fact they are on sale right now for 25.00. IK-214052 is the item number for the Remington. Comes with a lot of parts for a low price. I think this kit will provide what you needs. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

April 24, 2015, 04:56 PM	#9
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	ASM parts are non existent... They went out of business sometime around 93. All of the parts that remained have been picked over. There is a place in Indiana (Deer Creek) that once had some parts but they are mostly screws. There are people who are manufacturing parts which they "say" are ASM equivalent. I don't know how close they are. You could call Dixie Gun Works. The have parts which they will tell you are for "Italian Replica" firearms. These are supposedly different and unique from Uberti and Pietta. I have never tried them specifically. Wait...I did buy an arbor from them a while back. I could not get it to fit in anything. ASM had a bad (and I think only partially deserved) reputation for soft parts. If that is true then you are actually better off fitting a Pietta trigger in the pistol. In every Remington trigger I ever worked on I paid zero attention to the match between the manufacturer of the pistol and the manufacturer of the part. My guess is you will be okay. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

April 26, 2015, 02:00 PM	#11
swathdiver Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2012 Location: Treasure Coast, Florida Posts: 335	Why not call Deer Creek Products in Waldron, Indiana and get the right parts? Almost all CVAs were imported ASMs (Armi San Marcos). __________________ “Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.” - Job 38:3

April 14, 2015, 08:59 PM	#2
Stormson Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2014 Location: Mountains of SouthWest VA. Posts: 193	Now for the questions Soooo... Yeah.. The bolt\trigger spring is busted. It was in one piece, but badly damaged when I got the gun, I finished her off barely bending the bolt side back down... Snapped right off. I tried one of my Pietta springs and amazingly it works! Er... KINDA. While it does seem to function, it also seems a tad short and when cocked, the hammer doesnt seem to lock all the way back... It DOES seem to lock correctly (not in half cock, but full), just not back far enough... In fact its so much forward that one can only view about half of the rear sight. It should be pointed out that this SAME problem existed with the weak\busted spring. Is this caused, first by the bad spring, then by an ill fitting one Pietta one? Or is this caused by another issue altogether? CAN I use a Pietta spring? If not, whats my best bet for locating one designed for the ASM?

April 15, 2015, 07:33 PM	#3
Hardy Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 709	You got a hair trigger. There is a way to make that spring longer to fit on the trigger shelf but I am afraid to tell you how to do it because experienced folks on this thread will come after me and hang me. Post a thread about this and you'll get a right answer

April 24, 2015, 07:55 AM	#5
Stormson Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2014 Location: Mountains of SouthWest VA. Posts: 193	Hi Doc! Yup... Turns out the sear is actually curled over on itself. Im thinking someone dropped it on the hammer or forced it forward while it was on half cock... looks like that deep half cock would curl it over just about perfectly, like it is. Hope no one was HURT over this stupidity! But, yeah, it looks like im going to need a new spring and trigger both... waiting on funds in a week or two, then try VTI and another place that was recommended to me on another forum... If I strike out with both of them then the real hunt begins lol...

April 24, 2015, 07:57 AM	#6
Stormson Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2014 Location: Mountains of SouthWest VA. Posts: 193	Hardy, I'll keep that in mind if I am forced to resort to Pietta parts... gonna try for originals first, but it may turn out that way just the same. I am interested in how that would work though, if youd just like to share anyway?

April 24, 2015, 04:04 PM	#8
Stormson Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2014 Location: Mountains of SouthWest VA. Posts: 193	Thanks Doc, but wouldnt it be best to try and use original ASM parts, or are they close enough to not matter?

April 26, 2015, 12:38 PM	#10
Stormson Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2014 Location: Mountains of SouthWest VA. Posts: 193	Hi Doc, I did try the Pietta parts again, from an older (93 I believe) target vers... The problem is with the Pietta trigger in place, the Pietta spring is too short. Since its the bolt side of the original thats busted I did could fit the Pietta over the original and that works, but the curve of the Pietta spring makes it impossible to cock once the trigger guard is in place (I'd have to cut the rear of the guard off). I have an updated Pietta 5.5" vers from 2013 but havent had the chance to try it yet... I am assuming that the Cabels parts kit will be newer stock though so I'll have give it a shot. I guess that the worst thing that could happen is that I end up with extra parts for my Piettas, but then im still left with a dead ASM lol... As for the original ASM parts being soft, I can believe it looking at how the sear is actually curled over the way it is... Im debating whether to try the Cabelas parts or go with the VTI "universal/supposed to fit ASM" parts? I dont mind cutting the rear of the guard, but wish I wouldnt have to...

April 27, 2015, 10:21 AM	#13
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Deer Creek in Waldron... At least was the best source for ASM parts. But over the years the original parts have run through the pipeline and what is available now is parts that are supposed to be equivalent to ASM. Used to be run by a mom and pop pair. They were super nice and had good stock. I think health issues hit them and they turned it over to a person who sounds like a younger male. Son perhaps. Since he took over, the service is more consistent. I only ever worked with him a coupla times, but I was never put off by his attitude or approach. Seems to be genuinely interested in helping the customer. You might also try Winchester Sutler. I bought two original ASM cylinders from him a while back. Also seems to be a mom and pop outfit. "Mom got on the phone and hollered to "Pop", "Guy on the phone is looking for ASM cylinders!" Pop yelled, "I think I have some in the barn." I bought what I needed. That was about five years ago. As far as the spring being too short, you can grind them shorter but you can't grind em longer. ;o) __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

April 27, 2015, 10:32 AM	#14
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	I was partially right and partially wrong. Which is almost always the case with me. Deer Creek has a trigger and a spring. Total 13.00 for the parts plus shipping. 765-525-6181. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

April 27, 2015, 08:00 PM	#16
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	It is an odd thing..... I know that Deer Creek bought out the entire stock of ASM parts directly from ASM. I also know that they did that some years ago. They also told me that there were jobbers who were making ASM equivalent parts. That was a coupla years ago as well. The lady I spoke to on the phone today said that the trigger and spring are original ASM parts. I asked her specifically where the parts came from and she said they were original ASM. When I challenged her on it she said that these particular parts were purchased as part of the ASM buy-out. In the end, it makes no difference who makes the parts. So long as the fit in the pistol and work right and reliably they could come from Procter and Gamble. But it does make an interesting conversation. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

May 9, 2015, 10:05 AM	#18
Stormson Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2014 Location: Mountains of SouthWest VA. Posts: 193	OMG! This is turning out to be the project that JUST wont end! LOL Got the trigger and spring... Had to do some hand fitting of course but they worked awesome, thank you guys for the heads up about deer creek, they are great! Thing is... Now I need a hand and hand spring... I never noticed it before because it wouldnt cock at all... once fixed it would only cock when pointed down or level, not with any rise above level... checked.. yup... hand spring is weak as can be. I asked Talara for a price check on one.. I also need grips if anyone has a finished set? I can get unfinished from them for around $40 but if I have to finish them anyway then I may just go ahead and set up a birds head style... I prefer the birds head anyway, but was hoping not to have to put too much more time in on it..

May 9, 2015, 11:16 AM	#19
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,841	If you have a block of steel, you can make your own hand. Dykem the steel. Drill and hole the same diameter as the pivot pin. Now lay the original over the workpiece and trace the outline. Cut and file but make it long on the top and the cutout. You want to reduce the height slowly so as to fit it to the action. For the spring, you can use metal from a bobby pin, bend it and file that down. One it's fitted, harden it and quench in oil. The polish and temper. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

May 9, 2015, 12:06 PM	#20
Stormson Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2014 Location: Mountains of SouthWest VA. Posts: 193	Thanks Gary! All good info... Though sadly I'm not really set up for operations like that yet, and have a long way to go in the learning dept. Was a carpenter most of my life so my skill set is based more in wood then metal... I'm slowly getting there but still have a long road ahead For instance... What does 'Dykem the steel' mean? LOL sorry if thats a dumb question, but that pretty much where my experience level is at lol...

May 9, 2015, 12:17 PM	#21
44 Dave Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2013 Posts: 584	It depends on which method they used to attach the hand spring. Some can be worked out of the slot. I have one that is using part a bobby pin. After digging through my wife's pins to find an old one not made of china junk metal I was able to repair the hand to work perfectly and it has been for hundreds of rounds.

May 9, 2015, 04:44 PM	#22
AKexpat Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2014 Location: SW WA State Posts: 490	Dykem http://www.officesupersavers.com/vie...FQJufgod2A8AhQ IMO, a black Sharpie pen works just as well. __________________ To be governed – is to be watched, inspected, directed, indoctrinated, numbered, estimated, regulated, commanded, controlled, law-driven, preached at, spied upon, censured, checked, valued, enrolled – by creatures who have neither the right, nor the wisdom, nor the virtue to do so. - Pierre-Joseph Proudhon

May 9, 2015, 06:52 PM	#24
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,841	Stormson, if you worked with wood as a carpenter, you can use a metal file. Most of it is file work anyway. If you have a metal vise, all the better as it will hold the workpiece steady while you file away. If you don't, get a handvise. It's not as steady (because your hand isn't as rock solid as a bench mounted vise), but it'll make it faster than holding it with your non-dominant hand. Dykem is a metal dye. It is used to mark the workpiece so you know when to stop cutting. As suggested, a sharpie may also be used. Dykem is removable with acetone. Here's how I would do it. 1) locate a piece of tool steel the same thickness as the hand. 2) photocopy the hand. 3) cut out the photocopy and glue it onto the steel. 4) mark the hole where the pivot pin is. 5) drill out the hole. 6) Use a saw or mill file, cut away most of the extra steel from the workpiece. 7) Use a finer tooth file to dimension. Make sure it is longer on the top of the hand and in the second step. The first one begins the rotation of the cylinder and the second completes it. 8) fit and then polish to high shiny finish. 9) Use a torch to harden to cherry red and quench with oil. 10) polish to high shiny finish 11) Use a torch and heat to a straw color. DONE. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

May 9, 2015, 07:51 PM	#25
Stormson Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2014 Location: Mountains of SouthWest VA. Posts: 193	Awesome! Thanks Gary! Yeah I can work a file pretty good... Used to use plenty of different ones, along with rasps, when doing cabinet work. Have a bench vice, but in such tight quarters these days I dont have bench to mount it on LOL ... Actually never seen or used a hand file like that though, I'll have to look into them... I do still have bar and C clamps and have thought about rigging up some temporary way to mount my vice to the table, but the hand vice could very well solve a lot of problems without tearing the kitchen apart LOL !