38 Special Loads in 357 Mag cartridges

[bkhann]

I have been using 38 special cartridges in my 357 magnum revolver for practice, but have been unhappy with the carbon ring that must be removed on each chamber every time I clean the gun. The problem is that the 38 special cartridges are shorter than the 357 cartridges and when fired the end of the chamber becomes the beginning of the barrel. A possible solution is to only use 357 cartridges.

The question is: is it ok to load 357 mag cartridges to 38 special or 38 special +p power levels?

For example:
Powder: HP-38
Bullet: 125 gn JHP
38 Spec
Min Charge: 4.3 gr Velocity: 826 fps Pressure: 13300 PSI
Max Charge: 4.9 gr Velocity:934 fps Pressure:16300 psi
38 Spec+P
Max Charge: 5.3 gr Velocity:1018 fps Pressure:19800 psi
357 Mag
Min Charge: 7.3 gr Velocity: 1335 fps Pressure: 33800 PSI
Max Charge: 8.8gr Velocity:1514 fps Pressure:42700 psi

I would propose loading my 357 cartridges with 5.9 gr of powder (38 spec+P charge plus 10% to account for the cartridge case size difference) and expect to have a power level equivalent to the 38 Special +P load.

Will this work and is this a good plan?

[wncchester]

We can safely load any lower pressure pistol load in magnum cases. I've never found any difficulty cleaning .357 chambers after firing .38s.

[hornady]

I don’t see why you would want to down load a 357 case by 2 grains of HP-38. That is about the cheapest powder on the market. Two things you may want to consider. A reduced load in the 357 case may not expand the case enough to seal the gas from blowing back around the case. The other there has been an on going discussion on the safety of reduced loads. those Below listed minimum charges. An old saying that suits reloading vary well. Just because you can do something, dose not mean you should.

[pmeisel]

I don't used HP-38 -- mainly Unique and 4227 in mid-range and 2400 in full magnum.

I have been loading some practice rounds in more or less the manner you describe for years. Just pay attention to what you are doing.... too little of a powder can cause problems as well, or you could accidentally double charge.

That is part of the reason I like 4227, it takes more space than others....

[Winterhawk56]

Providing you follow the loading data for the bullet size, it makes no difference if you use the 38 special loads in a .357 magnum. This will also make it much easier for the +P rounds as you do not have to be concerned if you have +P .38's brass.

As mentioned here by wncchester, I also have never experienced difficulty in cleaning the cylinders after blasting some .38 special rounds? A trick I use before leaving the range is applying some break free before leaving. It keeps the powder residue from setting up and much easier to clean.

[floydster]

I shoot 38 Spl. loads in my 357 Blackhawk all the time using 38 Spl brass, never a problem with carbon builup or any other buildup.
Shooting cast SWC.

[margiesex]

I've been shooting .38's in the ole' .357 for eons - never a problem with any rings - may be a powder/load issue?

I load Bullseye (4.1 grains) for .38 and ramp it up with 15 grains of 2400 for the .357's.

I use the same 158 grain JSP for both.

Never a problem. I do use a mag. primer for the 2400 loads, however.

God bless.

Margiesex

And remember: Hug your God and your guns - 'cause he's coming for them both, and soon!

[awaveritt]

This will also make it much easier for the +P rounds as you do not have to be concerned if you have +P .38's brass.

Maybe I misunderstood your point, but I was under the impression that the specs for 38spl and 38spl+P brass are identical, just stamped differently. Is this correct?

[Winterhawk56]

Interesting question awaveritt so you had me questioning? I check my brass and I have brass stamped with .38 Spl and brass stamped with .38 spl +P. I checked two manufactures sites and they clearly sell .38 SPl and .38 Spl +P brass. I assume its for the higher pressures but I sent an e-mail to Federal to see if this is correct?

[Lost Sheep]

Most of my 357s have never even SEEN a 38 Special. But almost all my paper punching is done with lead bullets travelling under 1000 fps.

Just be careful when using slow powders. Slow powders like H110, W296 and maybe 2400, if loaded light in voluminous cases can experience pressure spikes that can be dangerous to both gun and shooter, as well as bystanders. Nobody understands why, but it happens.

I use Bullseye or Unique for plinking loads in my 357s and 44s. My friend uses Trail Boss in his S&W 500 Mag. 325 grain slugs at 750 fps out of his 4" Smith feel like shooting a 22. Fun, and good for familiarization. Would make a good home defense load, too. But I digress.

My 357 brass lasts practically forever using such light loads and I don't have problems with blow-by (from not adequately sealing the chamber). I would not be surprized if I started getting blow-by at 700 fps, though. My friend gets nasty powder stains on his 500 Magnum's brass with Trail Boss delivering slower than 750 to 800 fps and it makes for sticky extraction, too. I think he has settled on a minimum of 9.5 or 10 grains. Don't use my data, though. Work up (or down) for your particular chambers and barrel. You REALLY don't want a bullet slowing down and stopping in the middle of your barrel.

As far as the question about +P brass is concerned, I don't know whether or not the brass used for +P loads is different than the brass for regular 38s. But I do know that the pressure is significantly higer in the +P and the +P+ factory rounds, so it would not surprize me if the casings, web or head were thicker or made of stronger brass (possibly the same stuff as regular 38s, but heat treated for strength or something). Doesn't concern me overmuch, as I use 357 brass exclusively.

Good luck, good shooting, and don't pinch your fingers in your press.

Lost Sheep

[bkhann]

Regarding the headstamps on 38 Special cases, I went on Starline Brass website and this is what they say about their 38+P headstamp brass:

38 SPL+P has no difference from the standard 38 SPL, other than headstamp designation for load segregation. This is due to the fact that our standard case design will handle +P pressures with no problems.

I would suspect that other manufacturers are doing the same thing.

[B.L.E.]

I'm pretty happy with Trail Boss for .38 special loads in .357 cases. It's so bulky that a double load runs the case over. Also, the same powder measure adjustment that throws 13 grains of Li'l Gun for my .22 Hornet throws a perfect charge of Trail Boss for the .357 Magnum plinking load. How convenient!

[Mello2u]

bkhann

38 Special Loads in 357 Mag cartridges

An advantage to loading light loads in .357 brass is that the brass will last longer as it is subject to less stress when fired.

As others have cautioned, without loading data that has been tested with the components and powder amounts you plan to use you are rolling the dice on whether is is safe. Taking a .38 special load and substituting a .357 case changes the volume of the cartridge, the burning rate of the powder and therefor the pressure generated upon firing.

An issue of reliability and safety also comes into play when a powder charge is so small that is may move inside of the loaded cartridge and fail to ignite or only partially ignite. This may result in a squib load with a bullet lodged in the barrel.

If you are aware of these potential issues you may have enough caution to work around them.
Do you understand the risks?
Are you prepared to assume the risks?

[T. O'Heir]

"...+P .38's brass..." No such thing. The difference is the stamp on the case. Nothing else.
Loading .357 brass to .38 velocities works just fine. There are no pressure issues or anything else. The only thing that happens is the lube gunk ring goes away and stays away. Just like you want it to. Shot bullseye, using 2.7 grains of Bullseye and a 148 grain WC, for eons doing it for the same reason.

[Crankylove]

I load 3.8 grains of HP-38 in .357 Mag cases for my nephews to shoot, and have had no issues (i.e., ignition or extraction) with the load, other than the mighty recoil of the 158 grain bullets traveling at the break neck speed of 600 fps