What does your home defense plan consist of? - Page 2

markj · October 2, 2012, 03:47 PM

Outside motion lites, a loud dog, a loaded gun. I am looking at a wireless video camera system that is very mobile, you can move the cameras around easily, hook up to a vid recorder and woila. I got a friend has some very interesting items for watching the place, cameras look like rocks etc. A person should never be caught in his own home like many do.

p loader · October 2, 2012, 04:29 PM

I have quite a few layers of defense but also realize every plan is vulnerable, even if your home is built like a castle.

iraiam · October 3, 2012, 09:12 PM

Motion lights, a few decent cameras, beyond that I sleep with a loaded hangun in a holster next to my bed, an 870 defender model behind my bedroom door.

My last line of defense...."...any occupant of a dwelling is justified in using any degree of physical force, including deadly physical force, against another person when that other person has made an unlawful entry into the dwelling, and when the occupant has a reasonable belief that such other person has committed a crime in the dwelling in addition to the uninvited entry, or is committing or intends to commit a crime against a person or property in addition to the uninvited entry, and when the occupant reasonably believes that such other person might use any physical force, no matter how slight, against any occupant." Colorado 18-1-704.5 Use of deadly physical force against an intruder.

Without a doubt the best "castle doctrine" law in the entire country.

9mm · October 3, 2012, 11:46 PM

My room has all of my personal items, I am ready if someone wants to take my things, they can have what they want, as long as they don't come in my bedroom. Nothing worth me getting killed/shot/hurt over outside of my bedroom. My bedroom is safe, my daily ccw's are on my dresser and ready to go.

I think you are safest in your room, don't roam around your house because someone could be hiding and jump you, or sneak up on you. House phone + cell phone are on my dresser also. It also proves to courts that you are in defense mode and didn't go and search out your invader. If he comes in thats his problem. I don't want to leave my room and get owned, if my door moves I know where the person is. My dog is 14 years old and is pretty much out of the question of barking, he is pretty subdued around people now.

noosredna · October 4, 2012, 05:30 AM

First, I don't know about Philly, but in Missouri, the Castle Doctrine insures that you will not be sent to prison.

That said:
1. exterior lighting
2. replace the Glock with a 12guage loaded with buckshot (don't even need to be a GOOD shot!!)

Scout · October 4, 2012, 06:30 AM

I'd feel pretty vulnerable with out a good dog. I rely on that dog to hear what I can't hear. I can also count on the dog to fight pretty viciously if anyone gets in. That will give me enough time to limber up the gun du jour.

shortwave · October 4, 2012, 02:12 PM

noosredna

Welcome to TFL.

I like your idea of the shotgun but...

Quote:

First, I don't know about Philly, but in Missouri, the Castle Doctrine insures that you will not be sent to prison.

...you may want to elaborate on that part a bit. Especially the 'insures' part.

**Frank Ettin** · October 4, 2012, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noosredna

...in Missouri, the Castle Doctrine insures that you will not be sent to prison...

Nope, sorry. You don't understand Castle Doctrine/Stand Your Ground laws. See my discussion of that topic in post 22:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Ettin

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadHunter

Quote:

Originally Posted by StainlessSteel215

Anywhere in USA, even southern states like Florida that adopted the stand your ground laws. There is VERY specific language that went into legislation when these laws were crafted. You have to really prove without a shred of doubt that you had no way to exit the house safely before discharging your firearm at an intruder. Im telling you, you'd be surprised!

Well, in a word, NO. That's just not true. In Massachusetts that was true years ago. North Carolina was about the last Southern state that had weird Castle Doctrine and even it's been changed. In South Carolina, the Attorney General issued a public statement that people should shoot intruders in their home. In Georgia, our Castle Doctrine has existed for the better part of 100 years. No retreat is necessary.

I've been pretty tied up the last few days and missed SS215's comment. So let me help HH clarify things.

Every Stand Your Ground/Castle Doctrine law has one or more conditions that must be satisfied in order to come within its protections, but in no case is the inability to retreat one of those conditions.

I discussed the Florida law in some detail in this post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Ettin

...[3] The Florida's Castle Doctrine/Stand You Ground law at Section 776.013 helps by providing, among other things:

Quote:

(1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:

(a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and

(b) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.
(2) The presumption set forth in subsection (1) does not apply if:...

[3] A presumption is a rule that affects evidence and burden of proof in court. Ordinarily, one who asserts something in court will have the burden of proving, by presenting good evidence, that certain facts supporting that assertion are true. But sometimes the law might allow one of those facts to be accepted as true without specific evidence of that fact if the party with the burden of proof shows that certain other facts are true. So the party might be entitled under a rule of law to have fact A presumed to be true if facts B, C, and D are shown to be true, even if the party produces no direct evidence that fact A is true.

[4] So you can establish that your use of lethal force was justified, thus satisfying 776.012, if --

You can show that

The person you used force against was, "...in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will..."; and

You, "...knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred...."

None of the exceptions in 776.013(2) apply.

And if you can do that, you don't have to specifically establish that you believed, "...that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself...."

[5] But note that you don't get the presumption automatically. You need to show that the conditions that create the presumption exist. That might be easier than showing a fear of imminent death or great bodily harm, but you still must do some work to establish your claim of justification. ...

The Florida law is fairly typical of Castle Doctrine/Stand Your Ground laws. They help one establish one or more threshold legal requirements for justifying one's use of lethal force by providing one or more helpful presumptions. But one would still have to establish the facts giving rise to those presumptions.

In any case, Castle Doctrine/Stand Your Ground laws are not "licenses to kill" or "get out of jail free cards."

StainlessSteel215 · October 4, 2012, 02:40 PM

Wow...great post Frank and 100% unaware that inability to exit the home wasnt a STRONG requirement like it is in PA. I thought most states that adopted SYG type laws all had a version of this in place. Now we know...thanks for taking the time to post that.

Glockstar .40 · October 4, 2012, 08:07 PM

outside lights, deadbolt lock, dog, phone, flashlights and lots of guns

**OldMarksman** · October 6, 2012, 05:02 PM

Coupla differences I've noted among state 'castle' laws:

In some, entry must have occurred; in others, an unlawful attempt will suffice
Entry must be made or attempted with force in some states, but not inothers
In some but not all, the defender must be defending an occupied residence

Don't rely on the letter of the law alone. In Missouri, for example, the supreme court approved jury instructions place a greater burden on the defender than the statute itself would seem to.

Know the law, assume nothing, and don't shoot unless you have to.

Pistolgripshotty · October 8, 2012, 05:05 AM

Everybody stands behind me!

markj · October 10, 2012, 04:57 PM

"people dont plan to fail, they fail to plan" lol now what movie is that from?

Tactical Jackalope · October 10, 2012, 05:28 PM

I love you Florida...been here all my life.

kgpcr · October 12, 2012, 10:28 PM

my .45 double stack and an AR very close by. That will suffice

Ruark · October 12, 2012, 10:42 PM

This is Texas. No retreat here. If you're in my house uninvited, everything else is assumed, and I can kill you dead in your tracks.

hoytinak · October 12, 2012, 10:53 PM

Outside: motion lights on front and rear porch, 3 decent size Pit Bulls (that look and act mean but they'd just lick ya to death if they caught you.....sshhh, don't tell the bad guys

) that can move all around the outside (fense goes all around the house).

Inside: 3 locks on front and back doors (2 deadbolts and regular door knob), German Shorthair Pointer (that's actually meaner than the Pits), HK USP Compact 9mm/flashlight/cell next to the bed, Mossberg 500 12ga in the closet.

I live alone and if you make it past the dogs (which I doubt cause they get loud if anyone's just walking down the street and I'm a VERY light sleeper) and into my house without being invited, you're a threat and I will act as needed.

Gunnut17 · October 13, 2012, 12:44 AM

As of right now?

1.Assess threat level

2.Get the heck out!

Glenn E. Meyer · October 14, 2012, 07:09 PM

I would suggest that the TX law is not as simple as stated.

The TSRA has an excellent article this month in their journal.

I strongly suggest people read the law as here is part:

Quote:

A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor’s occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment

A version of the article is at:

http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/t...und-101-a.html

Quote:

This is Texas. No retreat here. If you're in my house uninvited, everything else is assumed, and I can kill you dead in your tracks.

That posted assumption is not correct.

**Tom Servo** · October 14, 2012, 07:40 PM

Quote:

If you're in my house uninvited, everything else is assumed, and I can kill you dead in your tracks.

I'd submit that little is "assumed" should the matter go before a grand jury. When it comes to homicide, things can get pretty gray.

shortwave · October 14, 2012, 09:35 PM

Quote:

This is Texas. No retreat here. If you're in my house uninvited, everything else is assumed, and I can kill you dead in your tracks.

... and because 'This is Texas', if I don't follow the Texas castle doctrine laws, my butt will be sitting in a Texas slammer for murder.

There finished it for ya.

Let an unarmed,confused, drunk stagger through your unlocked front door and you drill him and see what happens.

Art Eatman · October 14, 2012, 09:40 PM

"...I can kill you dead in your tracks." That's because I have unlimited funds for legal fees, which means that no grand jury or DA could possibly find cause to file charges. And no jury would ever, ever consider a finding of He Done A Bad Thing.

**Frank Ettin** · October 14, 2012, 10:40 PM

Our society, going back hundreds of years, has fundamentally considered one person intentionally hurting or killing another to be repugnant. Any such act of intentional violence against another human is prima facie a crime.

However, our legal system has recognized, also going back hundreds of years, that under some circumstances such an intentional act of extreme violence may be justified, thus relieving the actor from criminal (and civil) liability. But if you intentionally hurt or kill another person, your action is prima facie criminal unless/until it is established that the legal standard for justification was satisfied.

In some States an intentional act of extreme violence against another human might be justifiable in a broader set of circumstances. But the laws of no State can be considered a license to kill. If you intentionally hurt or kill another person, even in what you claim is self defense, you have prima facie committed a crime unless/until it can be established that your act of violence was justified.

StainlessSteel215 · October 14, 2012, 10:41 PM

Haaa, admins sure made their point which I agree is MUCH more complex than:
"you break into my house, now I can kill you dead..."

Some folks think that because they own guns...it gives them a James Bond type license to kill.

People assume much these days. The law isnt always on your side as I stated way back. Nobody wants to kill, or possibly spend time in prison as a result over a stupid break-in or ATTEMPTED break-in. Thats why a home defense plan should be layered...to protect YOU as much as your house! I have a bit of work to do based on some of the GREAT feedback Ive seen here.

Right now I have ADT security on both doors and a motion sensor, all windows locked and a motion sensor near the garage. I plan to install 2 more on both sides of the house. Perhaps a dog in the near future....once my cat decides to check out from natural causes. Thanks guys

Rebel9793 · October 14, 2012, 10:51 PM

Fenced in yard with 2 hounds that go ballistic at the smallest of sounds or movement during the night, 44 mag in a holster on my bed post with an assortment of shotguns/hunting rifles about 3 steps from my bed in the rack. my father has his .45acp and his shotgun at the other side of the house in easy to get to locations. After people hearing from a buddy of mine who tried to enter my property without my consent and my dogs latching onto his testicles, most are afraid to even approach my gate WITH my consent lmao.

October 3, 2012, 09:12 PM	#28
iraiam Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2012 Location: Lakewood, CO Posts: 1,057	Motion lights, a few decent cameras, beyond that I sleep with a loaded hangun in a holster next to my bed, an 870 defender model behind my bedroom door. My last line of defense...."...any occupant of a dwelling is justified in using any degree of physical force, including deadly physical force, against another person when that other person has made an unlawful entry into the dwelling, and when the occupant has a reasonable belief that such other person has committed a crime in the dwelling in addition to the uninvited entry, or is committing or intends to commit a crime against a person or property in addition to the uninvited entry, and when the occupant reasonably believes that such other person might use any physical force, no matter how slight, against any occupant." Colorado 18-1-704.5 Use of deadly physical force against an intruder. Without a doubt the best "castle doctrine" law in the entire country. __________________ NRA Lifetime Member Since 1999 "I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few public officials." George Mason

October 4, 2012, 05:30 AM	#30
noosredna Junior Member Join Date: October 4, 2012 Posts: 1	Not in Missouri First, I don't know about Philly, but in Missouri, the Castle Doctrine insures that you will not be sent to prison. That said: 1. exterior lighting 2. replace the Glock with a 12guage loaded with buckshot (don't even need to be a GOOD shot!!)

October 4, 2012, 06:30 AM	#31
Scout Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2009 Location: Central Florida Posts: 510	I'd feel pretty vulnerable with out a good dog. I rely on that dog to hear what I can't hear. I can also count on the dog to fight pretty viciously if anyone gets in. That will give me enough time to limber up the gun du jour. __________________ God bless the U.S. Cavalry

October 6, 2012, 05:02 PM	#36
OldMarksman Staff Join Date: June 8, 2008 Posts: 4,022	Coupla differences I've noted among state 'castle' laws: In some, entry must have occurred; in others, an unlawful attempt will suffice Entry must be made or attempted with force in some states, but not inothers In some but not all, the defender must be defending an occupied residence Don't rely on the letter of the law alone. In Missouri, for example, the supreme court approved jury instructions place a greater burden on the defender than the statute itself would seem to. Know the law, assume nothing, and don't shoot unless you have to.

October 8, 2012, 05:05 AM	#37
Pistolgripshotty Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2012 Location: Somewhere out there Posts: 184	Everybody stands behind me! __________________ *12 Gauge Fury!*

October 2, 2012, 03:47 PM	#26
markj Senior Member Join Date: October 27, 2005 Location: Crescent Iowa Posts: 2,971	Outside motion lites, a loud dog, a loaded gun. I am looking at a wireless video camera system that is very mobile, you can move the cameras around easily, hook up to a vid recorder and woila. I got a friend has some very interesting items for watching the place, cameras look like rocks etc. A person should never be caught in his own home like many do.

October 2, 2012, 04:29 PM	#27
p loader Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2012 Posts: 148	I have quite a few layers of defense but also realize every plan is vulnerable, even if your home is built like a castle.

October 3, 2012, 11:46 PM	#29
9mm Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2011 Location: Land of the Free Posts: 2,834	My room has all of my personal items, I am ready if someone wants to take my things, they can have what they want, as long as they don't come in my bedroom. Nothing worth me getting killed/shot/hurt over outside of my bedroom. My bedroom is safe, my daily ccw's are on my dresser and ready to go. I think you are safest in your room, don't roam around your house because someone could be hiding and jump you, or sneak up on you. House phone + cell phone are on my dresser also. It also proves to courts that you are in defense mode and didn't go and search out your invader. If he comes in thats his problem. I don't want to leave my room and get owned, if my door moves I know where the person is. My dog is 14 years old and is pretty much out of the question of barking, he is pretty subdued around people now.

October 4, 2012, 02:40 PM	#34
StainlessSteel215 Junior member Join Date: September 26, 2012 Posts: 250	Wow...great post Frank and 100% unaware that inability to exit the home wasnt a STRONG requirement like it is in PA. I thought most states that adopted SYG type laws all had a version of this in place. Now we know...thanks for taking the time to post that.

October 4, 2012, 08:07 PM	#35
Glockstar .40 Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2012 Location: West of the Rockies Posts: 435	outside lights, deadbolt lock, dog, phone, flashlights and lots of guns

October 10, 2012, 04:57 PM	#38
markj Senior Member Join Date: October 27, 2005 Location: Crescent Iowa Posts: 2,971	"people dont plan to fail, they fail to plan" lol now what movie is that from?

October 10, 2012, 05:28 PM	#39
Tactical Jackalope Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 6,429	I love you Florida...been here all my life.

October 12, 2012, 10:28 PM	#40
kgpcr Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2005 Posts: 955	my .45 double stack and an AR very close by. That will suffice __________________ Colt King Cobra .357 Colt Anaconda .44mag Springfield Armory .45 Double stack Loaded XD40 service XD45 Taurus 617 .357mag Smith M&P 40

October 12, 2012, 10:42 PM	#41
Ruark Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2010 Posts: 227	This is Texas. No retreat here. If you're in my house uninvited, everything else is assumed, and I can kill you dead in your tracks.

October 12, 2012, 10:53 PM	#42
hoytinak Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 5,721	Outside: motion lights on front and rear porch, 3 decent size Pit Bulls (that look and act mean but they'd just lick ya to death if they caught you.....sshhh, don't tell the bad guys ) that can move all around the outside (fense goes all around the house). Inside: 3 locks on front and back doors (2 deadbolts and regular door knob), German Shorthair Pointer (that's actually meaner than the Pits), HK USP Compact 9mm/flashlight/cell next to the bed, Mossberg 500 12ga in the closet. I live alone and if you make it past the dogs (which I doubt cause they get loud if anyone's just walking down the street and I'm a VERY light sleeper) and into my house without being invited, you're a threat and I will act as needed.

October 13, 2012, 12:44 AM	#43
Gunnut17 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2012 Location: Kitsap County, WA, USA Posts: 445	As of right now? 1.Assess threat level 2.Get the heck out!

October 14, 2012, 09:40 PM	#47
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	"...I can kill you dead in your tracks." That's because I have unlimited funds for legal fees, which means that no grand jury or DA could possibly find cause to file charges. And no jury would ever, ever consider a finding of He Done A Bad Thing.

October 14, 2012, 10:40 PM	#48
Frank Ettin Staff Join Date: November 23, 2005 Location: California - San Francisco Posts: 9,471	Our society, going back hundreds of years, has fundamentally considered one person intentionally hurting or killing another to be repugnant. Any such act of intentional violence against another human is prima facie a crime. However, our legal system has recognized, also going back hundreds of years, that under some circumstances such an intentional act of extreme violence may be justified, thus relieving the actor from criminal (and civil) liability. But if you intentionally hurt or kill another person, your action is prima facie criminal unless/until it is established that the legal standard for justification was satisfied. In some States an intentional act of extreme violence against another human might be justifiable in a broader set of circumstances. But the laws of no State can be considered a license to kill. If you intentionally hurt or kill another person, even in what you claim is self defense, you have prima facie committed a crime unless/until it can be established that your act of violence was justified. __________________ "It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper

October 14, 2012, 10:41 PM	#49
StainlessSteel215 Junior member Join Date: September 26, 2012 Posts: 250	Haaa, admins sure made their point which I agree is MUCH more complex than: "you break into my house, now I can kill you dead..." Some folks think that because they own guns...it gives them a James Bond type license to kill. People assume much these days. The law isnt always on your side as I stated way back. Nobody wants to kill, or possibly spend time in prison as a result over a stupid break-in or ATTEMPTED break-in. Thats why a home defense plan should be layered...to protect YOU as much as your house! I have a bit of work to do based on some of the GREAT feedback Ive seen here. Right now I have ADT security on both doors and a motion sensor, all windows locked and a motion sensor near the garage. I plan to install 2 more on both sides of the house. Perhaps a dog in the near future....once my cat decides to check out from natural causes. Thanks guys

October 14, 2012, 10:51 PM	#50
Rebel9793 Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2012 Location: Florida Posts: 134	Fenced in yard with 2 hounds that go ballistic at the smallest of sounds or movement during the night, 44 mag in a holster on my bed post with an assortment of shotguns/hunting rifles about 3 steps from my bed in the rack. my father has his .45acp and his shotgun at the other side of the house in easy to get to locations. After people hearing from a buddy of mine who tried to enter my property without my consent and my dogs latching onto his testicles, most are afraid to even approach my gate WITH my consent lmao.