Fail to Fire

[photogadam]

So I'm pretty new to guns, so I'm not quite sure what I should have done in this situation. I was shooting a Taurus 738 TCP at the range, probably 60-70 rounds through it so far (Monarch FMJ from Academy Sports), and I had a fail to fire. I left the gun pointed downrange for a few seconds afterwards and nothing happened, so I took out the magazine and ejected the round and inspected it. It had been hit by the firing pin, but it didn't go off. So I loaded it into a magazine again by itself and It fired fine. Gun and ammo was fine for the last 30-40 rounds.

Should I have done something different in this situation?
What may have caused this? I was shooting two rounds at a time in rapid succession, and this happened on the second round after a magazine change.

Thanks!

[evan1293]

The primer probably wasn't seated completely in the primer pocket. The first firing pin strike probably drove the primer completely into the pocket, the followup strike fired the round.

What you did was fine for administrative-range shooting.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I've had a few problems with Monarch 9mm. Good to practice failure drills with?

[booker_t]

However rare, it is possible for primer to burn slowly rather than deflagrate, if there is a void from manufacturing/shipping, or a bad lot of material, or some other reason. And sometimes it's just a dud (moisture, oil, process variation, etc.).

I always recommend waiting thirty seconds (or even up to fifteen minutes) for cookoff, just to be safe. A few minutes of waiting is worth not having the round go off in your hand or face.

Generally speaking I limit any inspection to an absolute minimum. Quick peek, yes the primer was dented. No it didn't go off. Fine, I had a dud. Throw it away and move on. Gathering all the PhDs and forming a Congressional inquiry panel at the range to eye- and finger-(word omitted) the thing for 30 minutes won't improve your shooting.

[Longdayjake]

I once bought a bad batch of argentine .30-06. On the first FTF I was about a millisecond from opening the bolt when it finally went off. That was probably the scariest thing that has ever happened to me at the range.

[azredhawk44]

The TCP is a DAO pistol.

There are two "correct" answers as to what to do in an actual self defense situation.

1 - Click again. The gun is DAO, so the hammer will strike the primer a second time and hopefully set it off that time.

2 - Tap, rack, bang. Firmly seat the magazine, rack the slide to eject the dud, and continue shooting.

[James K]

In a life-or-death situation, the answer is always immediate action - eject the dud round and hope the next one works. A hangfire is a risk but one that is acceptable under the circumstances.

But on a range, photogadam did the right thing, except I suggest a longer wait. Some people have said there is no such thing as a hangfire; Longdayjake can testify that there is, and so can I. I once had a batch of 8mm that would hangfire every round, sometimes for as long as five seconds.

A friend firing some old .30-'06 had a misfire and applied immediate action; the round went off in the receiver as it was being extracted and wrecked the gun, an M1918A2 BAR. (Checked the price of those, lately?)

Jim

[photogadam]

Thanks guys.

Even through it is DAO, racking the slide partially cocks the hammer on the first round the the recoil takes care of the rest. Dry firing or in this case of the FTF, pulling the trigger again does nothing.

[45Gunner]

Had a similar situation involving a Glock 36 (.45ACP). I ejected the round and collected it. Upon examination, the casing had been struck by the firing pin. My shooting buddy and I got into a discussion as he was shooting the same brand of ammo which was also JHP. Very expensive to be using for range ammo but we do this from time to time to shoot the older ammo and to make sure our guns will eat it, which usually is not a problem for the Glock. Neither of us had another failure that day so I decided to send the round back to the manufacturer for their analysis.

They told me in their analysis that the firing pin or striker did not hit the casing hard enough to excite the primer and they enclosed a check for $25 for my trouble. I didn't do this for the check but I thanked them nor do I believe what they told me about my gun. I think the round was a dud. The Glock 36, at the time was my BUG. I have since switched brands of ammo for awhile to make sure I don't get anything from that same lot.

[briandg]

It is possible that your slide was not fully in battery, and hence the case was not fully supported in the chamber. If a striker hits a primer when unsupported, it will expend part of the energy pushing the round into the chamber, and the strike on the firing pin will be reduced to a push, instead of a hard impact, and while this will still punch the primer, it can fail to detonate it. A weak or gunged striker/hammer/firing pin in rimfire will do this constantly, compress the rim, but not detonate the compound.

It sounds more likely that your rounds were at fault, though, I figure. The other plausible scenario of out of battery could have been caused by powder residue or dirt, and again, your striker may have been gunked or springs weak.

Occam's razor could go either way, bad ammo, bad gun, dirt...

[g.willikers]

For the twelve people on the planet who have yet to see the Clint Smith malfunction and clearance drill video, here it is:
(For those who have seen it, it's still a good review and Mr. Smith is always entertaining).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfyULpEhmug

[IQ45]

g. willikers, Thanks for sharing! That only leaves 11 now.

[booker_t]

I said it before but I feel the need to say it again. I keep my inspection of "duds" to an absolute minimum, which means none at all.

The example of a round going off in the BAR's breech as it was being extracted after failure is evidence. Imagine if there was an additional 2-second delay, and the operator removed the round by hand? Instead of scattering the receiver it would have sprayed the firing line with bits of bone and tendon, not to mention shards of brass and hot gasses to the face and eyes. Put a few feet between you and the same explosive and you might get a few cuts or minor burn, but you're going home in the same number of pieces you arrived in.

My point is, eye-f'ing a dented cartridge case doesn't improve your shooting, and won't reveal mysteries about the inner-workings your firearm. Unexploded ordnance, even something as small as a .22LR, is a coiled viper. Treat it with proper respect at all times.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Not a failure/hangfire, but a quick story to give some insight in the energy in propellant, which is lower than that in high explosive. I don't know all the details but I know the basics, hopefully I get it fairly accurate. Guy was disassembling an artillery shell, about to remove the fuze from the case. The fuze has several safeties, including a magnetic/inertial safety that physically breaks the explosive train, and is only is disengaged as the round spins in flight, so it is quite safe on the static-protected bench.

He's using a screwdriver to remove retaining screws and BOOM, there's an small explosion. The screwdriver is embeded through the guy's hand, fingers lacerated. He's alive, thankfully the fuze and the main charge didn't go off.

So, what happened?

It was believed that in storage, minute traces of explosive material had migrated into the threads where the screw was inserted. As the screw was turned out of the hole, those specs of HE became trapped, compressed and sheared until there was enough pressure to set them off in a very confined space. That much energy in a volume smaller than a pin head should always be feared, even if you've worked on/around it for 30 years. The day it doesn't scare you is the day you put yourself and those around you at risk.

Be safe.

[DanThaMan1776]

You're using a Taurus.. what'd you expect

[ranburr]

I've had a few problems with Monarch 9mm. Good to practice failure drills with?

Care to sell it? I have fired well over 50K of the 9mm brass and used it in at least a dozen classes without issue. Multiple guns and not a single squib load. You may want to check out your pistols.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Yeah, everything ran just fine, till I tried some Monarch. This weekend, ran just fine on WWB and Blazer.

That's life with guns.

[demigod]

I'd have immediately kicked out the bad round. Hangfire is pretty rare, and even if the round did ignite on the ground, it's not lethal outside of a chamber... it could frag a little, but if you're wearing basic shooting attire and eye pro, not a problem.

[jg0001]

You did exactly what I would do. The only time I don't retry it is if the round looks like it got bent or dented on the way into battery (happens on my 22LR rimfires here and there, but almost never on my centerfire cartridges).

Personally, so long as the round doesn't look deformed in any way, I would definitely feel better trying to shoot it than throwing it away. I don't like the prospect of live round on the edge of popping just lying around or being tossed in a bucket. To me, the dangers posed by reshooting it are slim versus those of tossing it away (assuming in both cases you are going to have to handle the round by hand at some point, though in the 're-shoot' situation, it is entirely possible you won't have to remove it to re-try it).

I'd have immediately kicked out the bad round. Hangfire is pretty rare, and even if the round did ignite on the ground, it's not lethal outside of a chamber... it could frag a little, but if you're wearing basic shooting attire and eye pro, not a problem.

Exactly what part of the above sounds less risky then trying to reshoot it? Again, we're assuming you are at the range and not trying to defend your life when this happens. I don't think anyone standing next to you will be as flippant about a round going off. I'd guess that 9 out of 10 rounds I've ever had this issue with actually do go off on the 2nd strike. [I've encountered this problem more with a dirty rental revolver than with any of my own personal semi-autos, but the solution was the same -- a 2nd primer strike does the trick.]