Scariest CCW situation.

Housezealot · May 28, 2009, 09:58 AM

I had a very frightening thing happen to me yseterday and have no idea how it happened. At work I CAN NOT show so I carry a little .380. I was cleaning the daily carry fuzz out of the gun and noticed the round I had in the pipe had a pin mark on the primer. I can not ever recall having a misfire with this ammo and know I would NOT have kept a bad round with the good. sure enough I steped outside and tried it and the round was no good. I can only imagine the horror if I had needed it.

FF/EMT · May 28, 2009, 10:13 AM

Was the round already like that you think? Or do you think you accidentally actuate the trigger? I couldn't imagine when you actuated the trigger! Good thing it didn't put a hole in your leg if that was the case. Otherwise, thank god you figured that out. That would have been terrible had you needed it.

Housezealot · May 28, 2009, 10:18 AM

I don't think I could have pulled the trigger, I have experimented with a snap cap and the hammer sets differntly when it has dropped, the gun doesn't have second strike capability. Boy a I guess a smoking hole in my leg would have woke me up though!

FF/EMT · May 28, 2009, 10:22 AM

Ha ha! You're not kidding! I actually shot myself before in a sense. It was a ricochet from a .22LR. I shot a skillet and it whizzed right back and caught me in the knee. It only went right under that skin so I guess I got lucky, but it still hurt and it took my leg out from under me!

djohn · May 28, 2009, 10:29 AM

Just curious have you checked to see if there was any powder.I assume this is factory fresh Defense Ammo.

Housezealot · May 28, 2009, 10:30 AM

no that hadn't occured to me, Fiocchi Hp, not my preffered ammo but you gotta take what you can find in .380 at the moment.

BlueTrain · May 28, 2009, 12:54 PM

Any automatic is liable to dent the primer slightly when chambering the round at normal speed, though obviously not enough to set it off. Military ammunition generally has harder primers for this reason and some commercially available primers are harder than others, though I couldn't say which.

It is called a slamfire when a firearm discharges upon chambering a round, at least most are, and that is a bad thing. In some firearms it can simply be a case of using ammuntion that has soft primers when it was designed around the use of harder primers. However, the only gun I've actually heard that mentioned about was the SKS rifles from Yugoslavia.

It would seem to be a bigger problem than it is, otherwise you would hear about it all the time here. Some guns like the Makarov have firing pins that look like horseshoe nails. If anything would slamfire, you would think they would all the time. Some submachine guns actually operate on that principle (among others), the firing pin being fixed.

john in jax · May 28, 2009, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Any automatic is liable to dent the primer slightly when chambering the round at normal speed . . .

No, not necessarily . . . Series '80 and newer Colts and 1911 clones have firing pin safeties/blocks to ensure the firing pin can NOT get any where close to the primer even if the slide "SLAMS" home. For that matter Glocks and most other current/modern firearms also have some kind of firing pin block/safety.

djohn · May 28, 2009, 01:43 PM

Agree with john,however when I gear up to strap on my CCW and chamber a round, I never slam home the slide.Just as a precautionary,I rack the slide,while still holding on a forward motion.

scottaschultz · May 28, 2009, 02:41 PM

So the lesson here is to inspect every round before you load the magazine or cylinder.

Scott

MLeake · May 28, 2009, 08:21 PM

Or the lesson is that the OP's .380 either doesn't have a firing pin safety, or its firing pin safety malfunctioned, or the OP somehow engaged the trigger on a fortuitously inert round.

Not to give anybody a hard time, but...

A_McDougal · May 28, 2009, 10:11 PM

That's scary, but it isn't 'scariest'.
I came to this thread expecting a much scarier story.

BlueTrain · May 29, 2009, 05:38 AM

I didn't say that all automatics would dent the firing pin but with some it is possible. I generally think the firing pin safety on the 1991A1 version of the Colt is a good idea, even though it makes stripping a three-handed job. Many don't like it just because it makes it more complicated and, in theory, affects the trigger. But I see no reason to distrust any automatic, all other things being equal, when chambering a round, unless you think automatics are more dangerous than I do.

Presumably it would be more likely if the primer was high, too, but again, these are not things you ever hear about. Less so, in fact, that mention of "ka-booms" on this forum, so it must be an especially rare occurance.

Housezealot · May 29, 2009, 09:41 AM

Quote:

That's scary, but it isn't 'scariest'.
I came to this thread expecting a much scarier story.

Yeah mabe i should have titled the thread "scarriest non-incident"

jfrey123 · May 31, 2009, 01:02 AM

Glad you found the problem before it became a life and death FTF.

That's the exact reason we should all be familiar with "Tap, Rack, Bang."

teeroux · May 31, 2009, 01:10 AM

You wouldn't happen to have a pre-fix ruger LCP would you?

skydiver3346 · May 31, 2009, 12:01 PM

Wow, your thread is scary alright. That has never happened to me before and I have carried for years and/or shot tons of ammo down range.
Bottom line: If it were me, I would just have to get another pistol and another brand of ammo. When your life is on the line, you just can't second guess your weapon, period. Just my opinion.

BlueTrain · May 31, 2009, 01:01 PM

To elaborate on my comments, I have noticed the (slightly) dented primer thing a few times, but have never had an accidental discharge with a pistol due to a malfunction. I have had that happen, however, with a .22 rimfire rifle, which would fire on closing the bolt. This was about 45 years ago and I don't remember the details, other than it was a .22 rifle. I happened to be living in West Virginia then in a place where there were a fair number of guns. They were all long guns and all old, which pretty much described most of the guns I had had experience with by then. I only fired it once.

KD5NRH · May 31, 2009, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Any automatic is liable to dent the primer slightly when chambering the round at normal speed, though obviously not enough to set it off. Military ammunition generally has harder primers for this reason and some commercially available primers are harder than others, though I couldn't say which.

I have noticed, as well, that a primer that has been light struck a time or two can often not be fired by a full force strike. Presumably, the dent makes that area no longer have enough travel between cup and anvil for a proper ignition.

If the OP had rechambered that same round several times after cleaning or whatnot, even very weak strikes could eventually add up to a dent deep enough to cause the problem.

OTOH, I too was expecting something like having to pistol whip an enraged grizzly to death with a jammed Lorcin based on the title.

Lee Lapin · June 1, 2009, 04:43 AM

15 posts before someone said "tap rack bang"?

lpl

BlueTrain · June 1, 2009, 05:20 AM

At one time the US army was apparently concerned with the problem of a failure to fire and wanted to have a feature on a weapon to give the primer a second blow. That's why Springfield bolt actions have a cocking piece, which I think is unique among Mauser actions. A few other non-Mauser designs have that feature but probably not for the same reason. A 1911 has that feature as well, though no revolvers have it. I expect the reasoning behind the feature is to hopefully avoid the possibility of a late ignition happening after the bolt was open.

Housezealot · June 1, 2009, 08:09 AM

Quote:

You wouldn't happen to have a pre-fix ruger LCP would you?

Actually It is a p3at so not far off.

Taurus38Special · June 2, 2009, 11:51 AM

in reference to the "tap, rack, bang" comment:

thats exactly what they taught us in basic training for law enforcement-if I ever have a misfire, my hands will automatically take over and perform that task (tap-rack-ready) before my mind could process it haha

the instructors hounded us so hard to be able to do that without even thinking about and even set up an obstacle course with a few dummy rounds loaded in the magazines to make us practice that

May 28, 2009, 09:58 AM	#1
Housezealot Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 606	Scariest CCW situation. I had a very frightening thing happen to me yseterday and have no idea how it happened. At work I CAN NOT show so I carry a little .380. I was cleaning the daily carry fuzz out of the gun and noticed the round I had in the pipe had a pin mark on the primer. I can not ever recall having a misfire with this ammo and know I would NOT have kept a bad round with the good. sure enough I steped outside and tried it and the round was no good. I can only imagine the horror if I had needed it. __________________ We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.

May 28, 2009, 10:13 AM	#2
FF/EMT Member Join Date: May 24, 2009 Location: Astatula, FL Posts: 52	Was the round already like that you think? Or do you think you accidentally actuate the trigger? I couldn't imagine when you actuated the trigger! Good thing it didn't put a hole in your leg if that was the case. Otherwise, thank god you figured that out. That would have been terrible had you needed it. __________________ ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.’’ - Jefferson

May 28, 2009, 10:18 AM	#3
Housezealot Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 606	I don't think I could have pulled the trigger, I have experimented with a snap cap and the hammer sets differntly when it has dropped, the gun doesn't have second strike capability. Boy a I guess a smoking hole in my leg would have woke me up though! __________________ We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.

May 28, 2009, 10:22 AM	#4
FF/EMT Member Join Date: May 24, 2009 Location: Astatula, FL Posts: 52	Ha ha! You're not kidding! I actually shot myself before in a sense. It was a ricochet from a .22LR. I shot a skillet and it whizzed right back and caught me in the knee. It only went right under that skin so I guess I got lucky, but it still hurt and it took my leg out from under me! __________________ ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.’’ - Jefferson

May 28, 2009, 10:29 AM	#5
djohn Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2009 Location: CT Posts: 507	Just curious have you checked to see if there was any powder.I assume this is factory fresh Defense Ammo. __________________ Dave.

May 28, 2009, 10:30 AM	#6
Housezealot Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 606	no that hadn't occured to me, Fiocchi Hp, not my preffered ammo but you gotta take what you can find in .380 at the moment. __________________ We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately. Last edited by Housezealot; May 28, 2009 at 12:28 PM.

May 28, 2009, 12:54 PM	#7
BlueTrain Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 6,141	Any automatic is liable to dent the primer slightly when chambering the round at normal speed, though obviously not enough to set it off. Military ammunition generally has harder primers for this reason and some commercially available primers are harder than others, though I couldn't say which. It is called a slamfire when a firearm discharges upon chambering a round, at least most are, and that is a bad thing. In some firearms it can simply be a case of using ammuntion that has soft primers when it was designed around the use of harder primers. However, the only gun I've actually heard that mentioned about was the SKS rifles from Yugoslavia. It would seem to be a bigger problem than it is, otherwise you would hear about it all the time here. Some guns like the Makarov have firing pins that look like horseshoe nails. If anything would slamfire, you would think they would all the time. Some submachine guns actually operate on that principle (among others), the firing pin being fixed. __________________ Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands! Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag, and return us to our own beloved homes! Buy War Bonds.

May 28, 2009, 01:43 PM	#9
djohn Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2009 Location: CT Posts: 507	Agree with john,however when I gear up to strap on my CCW and chamber a round, I never slam home the slide.Just as a precautionary,I rack the slide,while still holding on a forward motion. __________________ Dave.

May 28, 2009, 02:41 PM	#10
scottaschultz Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2009 Location: Missouri Posts: 392	So the lesson here is to inspect every round before you load the magazine or cylinder. Scott

May 28, 2009, 08:21 PM	#11
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	Or the lesson is that the OP's .380 either doesn't have a firing pin safety, or its firing pin safety malfunctioned, or the OP somehow engaged the trigger on a fortuitously inert round. Not to give anybody a hard time, but...

May 28, 2009, 10:11 PM	#12
A_McDougal Member Join Date: May 1, 2009 Posts: 48	That's scary, but it isn't 'scariest'. I came to this thread expecting a much scarier story.

May 29, 2009, 05:38 AM	#13
BlueTrain Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 6,141	I didn't say that all automatics would dent the firing pin but with some it is possible. I generally think the firing pin safety on the 1991A1 version of the Colt is a good idea, even though it makes stripping a three-handed job. Many don't like it just because it makes it more complicated and, in theory, affects the trigger. But I see no reason to distrust any automatic, all other things being equal, when chambering a round, unless you think automatics are more dangerous than I do. Presumably it would be more likely if the primer was high, too, but again, these are not things you ever hear about. Less so, in fact, that mention of "ka-booms" on this forum, so it must be an especially rare occurance. __________________ Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands! Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag, and return us to our own beloved homes! Buy War Bonds.

May 31, 2009, 01:02 AM	#15
jfrey123 Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2006 Location: Reno, NV. Posts: 1,026	Glad you found the problem before it became a life and death FTF. That's the exact reason we should all be familiar with "Tap, Rack, Bang." __________________ Rock out with your Glock out!

May 31, 2009, 01:10 AM	#16
teeroux Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2006 Posts: 1,512	You wouldn't happen to have a pre-fix ruger LCP would you?

May 31, 2009, 12:01 PM	#17
skydiver3346 Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 1,222	Hi, housezealot: Wow, your thread is scary alright. That has never happened to me before and I have carried for years and/or shot tons of ammo down range. Bottom line: If it were me, I would just have to get another pistol and another brand of ammo. When your life is on the line, you just can't second guess your weapon, period. Just my opinion.

May 31, 2009, 01:01 PM	#18
BlueTrain Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 6,141	To elaborate on my comments, I have noticed the (slightly) dented primer thing a few times, but have never had an accidental discharge with a pistol due to a malfunction. I have had that happen, however, with a .22 rimfire rifle, which would fire on closing the bolt. This was about 45 years ago and I don't remember the details, other than it was a .22 rifle. I happened to be living in West Virginia then in a place where there were a fair number of guns. They were all long guns and all old, which pretty much described most of the guns I had had experience with by then. I only fired it once. __________________ Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands! Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag, and return us to our own beloved homes! Buy War Bonds.

June 1, 2009, 04:43 AM	#20
Lee Lapin Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2004 Location: SE NC Posts: 1,239	15 posts before someone said "tap rack bang"? lpl

June 1, 2009, 05:20 AM	#21
BlueTrain Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 6,141	At one time the US army was apparently concerned with the problem of a failure to fire and wanted to have a feature on a weapon to give the primer a second blow. That's why Springfield bolt actions have a cocking piece, which I think is unique among Mauser actions. A few other non-Mauser designs have that feature but probably not for the same reason. A 1911 has that feature as well, though no revolvers have it. I expect the reasoning behind the feature is to hopefully avoid the possibility of a late ignition happening after the bolt was open. __________________ Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands! Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag, and return us to our own beloved homes! Buy War Bonds.

June 2, 2009, 11:51 AM	#23
Taurus38Special Junior Member Join Date: August 2, 2008 Posts: 9	in reference to the "tap, rack, bang" comment: thats exactly what they taught us in basic training for law enforcement-if I ever have a misfire, my hands will automatically take over and perform that task (tap-rack-ready) before my mind could process it haha the instructors hounded us so hard to be able to do that without even thinking about and even set up an obstacle course with a few dummy rounds loaded in the magazines to make us practice that