COAL - is it me or the chamber

Ike666 · June 1, 2012, 05:40 PM

I wanted to improve my loads for my CZ 527 in .223. I really haven't been happy with its accuracy, it groups at about 2 MOA at 100, with a best ever of 1.25. I tried good factory ammo and juked around with my handloads. Today I got the special case for my Hornady LNL and immediately tried it out.

I started with a Hornady 40 gr V-Max. Seated the casing firmly in the chamber and began a very slow gentle push, waiting for the slightest resistance. Nothing. Kept pushing. Pushed until the gray rod disappeared in the red handle. No resistance. Pulled it out and sure enough the rod was a good three inches past the case mouth. Picked up the rifle and the bullet fell out on its own. No bump. No rod - just gravity.

Tried it again with 52 gr V-Max, thinking it was a little longer. Same deal, pushed way beyond any reasonable contact with the lands. Same deal, gravity let it fall out.

Checked both bullets on the muzzle end and neither would fit - too tight (expected).

Does this mean that the throat of this barrel is the Holland Tunnel for the first few inches? This is a brand new rifle, I'm the only one that's ever fired it and it has less than 300 rounds down the pipe. I haven't slugged it. Is that the next step or do I have enough information to get on the horn with CZ?

243winxb · June 1, 2012, 06:51 PM

Would seem like a defective barrel. Hammer forged barrel? Your using this tool? http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=1...nd_Maximum_COL Maybe go over the instruction again??

Edit, the barrels are hammer forged, i looked. Some even hammer the chamber.

Ike666 · June 1, 2012, 09:51 PM

Yep, that's it about 3/4ths of the way down the page - very interesting page BTW. I've used this tool quite a bit, just never on this rifle. Its pretty basic, set the bullet in the special case (drilled and tapped to mount of the tool and a loose mouth), shove it in the chamber until the shoulder rests on the chamber wall, slowly push the rod (and hence the bullet) until you feel contact with the rifling.

The barrel is indeed hammer forged. I'm wondering if a single barrel could be mispositioned on the mandrel and accidentally extend the throat. I'm mystified. And disappointed.

CherokeeT · June 1, 2012, 09:54 PM

Sounds like manufacturing defect. CZ should fix it.

mrawesome22 · June 1, 2012, 11:07 PM

If this rifle has a fast twist meant for the longer, heavier bullets, the throat may be longer to accomodate this.

Weatherby produces their rifles with super long throats in an effort to minimize the potential of over pressure. Perhaps CZ does the same?

Sent from a highly hacked Android device using Tapatalk 2.

NESHOOTER · June 2, 2012, 12:01 AM

IKE, regardless of your desired COL of your rounds unless you feed them in by hand you must only have a max COL of max mag length that will feed without sticking. I have a rifle with the same I would push the round out and using a longer projectile such as a 50gr barnes varmint gernade it will feed well in a 1/9 twist, or faster due to its longer bearing surface. But I ended up crimping the finished round your mileage may vary due to the amount of crimp you use once I get what I needed I only use that LFCD only for that cal/rifle. But what you will also notice is that your FPS will even out and your POI's will get tighter that is if your don't have a flinch and good trigger pull.

steve4102 · June 2, 2012, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Pulled it out and sure enough the rod was a good three inches past the case mouth. Picked up the rifle and the bullet fell out on its own. No bump. No rod - just gravity.

Nobody intentionally cuts a chamber with over 3 inches of freebore, not even Roy Weatherby.

I would do two things, Bring it to a Smith with a bore scope and have him look at it. Then I would call CZ USA and report his findings.

243winxb · June 2, 2012, 07:20 AM

Quote:

the rod was a good three inches past the case mouth.

Has to be a defect in the barrel.

hooligan1 · June 2, 2012, 07:47 AM

I have almosst the same problem with my daughter's MarkX .243 win, if I wanted to seat bullets at the lands, they wouldn't have anything in the case!!!

Ike666 · June 2, 2012, 08:07 AM

Yeah, I'm afraid the freebore is too long in this rifle. NES, it is only a 1:12 twist, even a 55 grain is getting a bit heavy for it.

I've written CZ to see what they have to say. Their website isn't the best for finding support.

I will take it to 'smith to get it scoped - I suspect CZ will want that done first anyway.

I'll let y'all know what happens.

June 1, 2012, 05:40 PM	#1
Ike666 Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2009 Location: SW VA Posts: 491	COAL - is it me or the chamber I wanted to improve my loads for my CZ 527 in .223. I really haven't been happy with its accuracy, it groups at about 2 MOA at 100, with a best ever of 1.25. I tried good factory ammo and juked around with my handloads. Today I got the special case for my Hornady LNL and immediately tried it out. I started with a Hornady 40 gr V-Max. Seated the casing firmly in the chamber and began a very slow gentle push, waiting for the slightest resistance. Nothing. Kept pushing. Pushed until the gray rod disappeared in the red handle. No resistance. Pulled it out and sure enough the rod was a good three inches past the case mouth. Picked up the rifle and the bullet fell out on its own. No bump. No rod - just gravity. Tried it again with 52 gr V-Max, thinking it was a little longer. Same deal, pushed way beyond any reasonable contact with the lands. Same deal, gravity let it fall out. Checked both bullets on the muzzle end and neither would fit - too tight (expected). Does this mean that the throat of this barrel is the Holland Tunnel for the first few inches? This is a brand new rifle, I'm the only one that's ever fired it and it has less than 300 rounds down the pipe. I haven't slugged it. Is that the next step or do I have enough information to get on the horn with CZ? __________________ ___________________ "I'm your huckleberry."

June 1, 2012, 09:51 PM	#3
Ike666 Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2009 Location: SW VA Posts: 491	Yep, that's it about 3/4ths of the way down the page - very interesting page BTW. I've used this tool quite a bit, just never on this rifle. Its pretty basic, set the bullet in the special case (drilled and tapped to mount of the tool and a loose mouth), shove it in the chamber until the shoulder rests on the chamber wall, slowly push the rod (and hence the bullet) until you feel contact with the rifling. The barrel is indeed hammer forged. I'm wondering if a single barrel could be mispositioned on the mandrel and accidentally extend the throat. I'm mystified. And disappointed. __________________ ___________________ "I'm your huckleberry."

June 1, 2012, 09:54 PM	#4
CherokeeT Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2008 Location: Medina, Ohio Posts: 273	Sounds like manufacturing defect. CZ should fix it. __________________ God Bless America US Army, NRA Endowment TSRA Life, SASS

June 2, 2012, 07:47 AM	#9
hooligan1 Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2010 Location: Independence Missouri Posts: 4,585	I have almosst the same problem with my daughter's MarkX .243 win, if I wanted to seat bullets at the lands, they wouldn't have anything in the case!!! __________________ Keep your Axe sharp and your powder dry.

June 2, 2012, 08:07 AM	#10
Ike666 Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2009 Location: SW VA Posts: 491	Yeah, I'm afraid the freebore is too long in this rifle. NES, it is only a 1:12 twist, even a 55 grain is getting a bit heavy for it. I've written CZ to see what they have to say. Their website isn't the best for finding support. I will take it to 'smith to get it scoped - I suspect CZ will want that done first anyway. I'll let y'all know what happens. __________________ ___________________ "I'm your huckleberry."

June 1, 2012, 06:51 PM	#2
243winxb Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2011 Location: USA Posts: 1,730	Would seem like a defective barrel. Hammer forged barrel? Your using this tool? http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=1...nd_Maximum_COL Maybe go over the instruction again?? Edit, the barrels are hammer forged, i looked. Some even hammer the chamber.

June 1, 2012, 11:07 PM	#5
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	If this rifle has a fast twist meant for the longer, heavier bullets, the throat may be longer to accomodate this. Weatherby produces their rifles with super long throats in an effort to minimize the potential of over pressure. Perhaps CZ does the same? Sent from a highly hacked Android device using Tapatalk 2.

June 2, 2012, 12:01 AM	#6
NESHOOTER Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 2009 Posts: 517	IKE, regardless of your desired COL of your rounds unless you feed them in by hand you must only have a max COL of max mag length that will feed without sticking. I have a rifle with the same I would push the round out and using a longer projectile such as a 50gr barnes varmint gernade it will feed well in a 1/9 twist, or faster due to its longer bearing surface. But I ended up crimping the finished round your mileage may vary due to the amount of crimp you use once I get what I needed I only use that LFCD only for that cal/rifle. But what you will also notice is that your FPS will even out and your POI's will get tighter that is if your don't have a flinch and good trigger pull.