Ruger m77/50 muzzleloader

ldsord · October 29, 2007, 02:13 PM

I am installing a 209 conversion kit in my Ruger 77/50 and would like to start using 3 pyrodex (150 grains)in it but I don't know if the gun can safely handle that much powder

Hawg · October 29, 2007, 04:31 PM

It'll handle it but with a 22 inch barrel it's just wasted energy.

ldsord · October 29, 2007, 05:16 PM

Educate me please.I just bought a TC Triumph and the balistics on it shows a marked increase in muzzle velocity and energy using 3 pellets compared to two.I guess what you're saying is my Ruger 77/50 is too short to to take advantage of the energy created by the extra pellet?

Hawg · October 29, 2007, 07:37 PM

Exactly. The Triumph has a 28 inch barrel and while I'd think any velocity improvement with the 28 inch using 150 grs. would be neglible it would be better than 150 grs out of a 22 inch. I don't do inlines but my Hawken has a 28 inch barrel and once past 90 grs. or so there's not much difference other than the flame out the muzzle

arcticap · October 30, 2007, 03:03 AM

When working up a load, it's usually always better to start with a lower powder charge so that you can see when the accuracy starts to decline. Plus, too much muzzle flip and it's not going to shoot where you aim anyway.
So too much powder can end up being a missed animal or target due to too much velocity, especially at longer ranges.

ldsord · October 30, 2007, 11:31 AM

Do you think this muzzle flip happens befor the bullet clears the barrel?I now hunt nearly exclusively muzzeloader(utah,arizona before that)I hit a big muley and we lost him.I found him several days later.I can't stand wounding an animal, so I want to hit him as hard and accurately as possible.Age is beginning to affect me some so I want all the advantages possible.Under range conditions,I'm very accurate, but it's not the same in the field, as we all know.I bought a TC Triumph because(according to it's ballistics)it's accurate,flat,and powerful.however,I love blued barrels, beautiful wood stocks, fine workmanship and the Ruger 77/50 has all that.It's difficult to get a small tite-fitting primer on a tucked away nipple in an exciting situation so i'm installing a 209 primer kit,and if I can bring up the muzzle velocity and energy we'll be a good pair(if I can maintain accuracy)Your help will be appreciated.ldsord

arcticap · October 30, 2007, 12:58 PM

Supposedly the longer barrel has a longer barrel lag time, the amount of time it takes for the bullet to clear out of the barrel. It's only a fraction of a second, but that represents a longer period of time that the muzzle needs to be held steady after releasing the trigger.
Also, the lock time affects the overall lag time too, having to wait for the hammer or pin to fall or strike, then ignition and bullet exit.
Now a longer barrel is heavier, which is supposed to help keep it steady while aiming and to lessen the muzzle rise, which should help compensate for the extra barrel lag time. But there's always trade-offs and compromises with any gun design.
A heavier gun can cause the arms to be more fatigued which can create more difficulty holding it steady. The trigger pull weight and the length of the stock (length of pull) can also affect holding it steady, and even the LOP is dependent on how many layers of clothing one wears while hunting.
So all of these are factors which helps to either make a particular gun easier or harder to shoot accurately when demanded to during a hunt.
It all comes down to what anyone is most comfortable with when shooting.
Sometimes a short barrel has advantages that the longer barrel can't provide and vice versa.
No one can hold a gun perfectly steady, there's always going to be some movement.
Whenever I advise a new shooter, I try to remind them to exhale 1/2 way and then hold their breath while they squeeze the trigger to help minimize movement.
And then everyone needs to find the most stable way for them to hold the individual gun that they're shooting. Where to place the front hand and the process of squeezing the stock is another variable to work on.
Every shot can be a crap shoot when it's done rapidly in a hunting situation.

The weight of the bullets and the size of the powder charge can affect point of impact too if the additional recoil makes the shooter flinch.
A person might want to compensate by aiming a little bit lower if they know in advance that the muzzle rise can sometimes cause the bullet to impact higher than their point of aim.

ldsord · October 30, 2007, 05:02 PM

Three seasons ago,I had a broadside still shot 75 maybe 100 yds on a steep hillside,I saw the dirt kick up just over his back and I had just sighted in 1-2" high at 100 yds so what you say makes sense.I've had a real hard time placing my shots hunting when I group so well on the range.I had a reputation of rarely missing my point of aim in rifle season but since going exclusively muzzleload my confidence has really been shaken.I appreciate the pointers,I'm beginning to make some connections.

October 29, 2007, 02:13 PM	#1
ldsord Junior Member Join Date: October 29, 2007 Posts: 4	Ruger m77/50 muzzleloader I am installing a 209 conversion kit in my Ruger 77/50 and would like to start using 3 pyrodex (150 grains)in it but I don't know if the gun can safely handle that much powder

October 30, 2007, 11:31 AM	#6
ldsord Junior Member Join Date: October 29, 2007 Posts: 4	Ruger 77/50 Do you think this muzzle flip happens befor the bullet clears the barrel?I now hunt nearly exclusively muzzeloader(utah,arizona before that)I hit a big muley and we lost him.I found him several days later.I can't stand wounding an animal, so I want to hit him as hard and accurately as possible.Age is beginning to affect me some so I want all the advantages possible.Under range conditions,I'm very accurate, but it's not the same in the field, as we all know.I bought a TC Triumph because(according to it's ballistics)it's accurate,flat,and powerful.however,I love blued barrels, beautiful wood stocks, fine workmanship and the Ruger 77/50 has all that.It's difficult to get a small tite-fitting primer on a tucked away nipple in an exciting situation so i'm installing a 209 primer kit,and if I can bring up the muzzle velocity and energy we'll be a good pair(if I can maintain accuracy)Your help will be appreciated.ldsord

October 29, 2007, 04:31 PM	#2
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	It'll handle it but with a 22 inch barrel it's just wasted energy.

October 29, 2007, 05:16 PM	#3
ldsord Junior Member Join Date: October 29, 2007 Posts: 4	Educate me please.I just bought a TC Triumph and the balistics on it shows a marked increase in muzzle velocity and energy using 3 pellets compared to two.I guess what you're saying is my Ruger 77/50 is too short to to take advantage of the energy created by the extra pellet?

October 29, 2007, 07:37 PM	#4
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	Exactly. The Triumph has a 28 inch barrel and while I'd think any velocity improvement with the 28 inch using 150 grs. would be neglible it would be better than 150 grs out of a 22 inch. I don't do inlines but my Hawken has a 28 inch barrel and once past 90 grs. or so there's not much difference other than the flame out the muzzle

October 30, 2007, 03:03 AM	#5
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	When working up a load, it's usually always better to start with a lower powder charge so that you can see when the accuracy starts to decline. Plus, too much muzzle flip and it's not going to shoot where you aim anyway. So too much powder can end up being a missed animal or target due to too much velocity, especially at longer ranges.

October 30, 2007, 12:58 PM	#7
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	Supposedly the longer barrel has a longer barrel lag time, the amount of time it takes for the bullet to clear out of the barrel. It's only a fraction of a second, but that represents a longer period of time that the muzzle needs to be held steady after releasing the trigger. Also, the lock time affects the overall lag time too, having to wait for the hammer or pin to fall or strike, then ignition and bullet exit. Now a longer barrel is heavier, which is supposed to help keep it steady while aiming and to lessen the muzzle rise, which should help compensate for the extra barrel lag time. But there's always trade-offs and compromises with any gun design. A heavier gun can cause the arms to be more fatigued which can create more difficulty holding it steady. The trigger pull weight and the length of the stock (length of pull) can also affect holding it steady, and even the LOP is dependent on how many layers of clothing one wears while hunting. So all of these are factors which helps to either make a particular gun easier or harder to shoot accurately when demanded to during a hunt. It all comes down to what anyone is most comfortable with when shooting. Sometimes a short barrel has advantages that the longer barrel can't provide and vice versa. No one can hold a gun perfectly steady, there's always going to be some movement. Whenever I advise a new shooter, I try to remind them to exhale 1/2 way and then hold their breath while they squeeze the trigger to help minimize movement. And then everyone needs to find the most stable way for them to hold the individual gun that they're shooting. Where to place the front hand and the process of squeezing the stock is another variable to work on. Every shot can be a crap shoot when it's done rapidly in a hunting situation. The weight of the bullets and the size of the powder charge can affect point of impact too if the additional recoil makes the shooter flinch. A person might want to compensate by aiming a little bit lower if they know in advance that the muzzle rise can sometimes cause the bullet to impact higher than their point of aim.

October 30, 2007, 05:02 PM	#8
ldsord Junior Member Join Date: October 29, 2007 Posts: 4	Three seasons ago,I had a broadside still shot 75 maybe 100 yds on a steep hillside,I saw the dirt kick up just over his back and I had just sighted in 1-2" high at 100 yds so what you say makes sense.I've had a real hard time placing my shots hunting when I group so well on the range.I had a reputation of rarely missing my point of aim in rifle season but since going exclusively muzzleload my confidence has really been shaken.I appreciate the pointers,I'm beginning to make some connections.