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Old June 7, 2014, 12:56 PM   #26
cougar gt-e
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Imho, listing requirements / use will guide you into some good choices. From what was listed:

1- target shooting will be the prime use with 99.99999999999% of shots fires at a range.

2- safe in a home w children

3- common / cheap caliber, 9mm being a good choice

4- unspoken requirement -- easy to operate and shoot accurately.

5- adequate for home defense

6- not used for concealed carry


I would recommend an all steel gun with a 4.5" or longer barrel with an accessory mounting rail that has a manual safety and potentially the unpopular magazine safety (won't fire with out the mag in place). CZ75, EAAWitness large frame, hi-power, Beretta 92, etc are in there with many of the desired options. But that isn't an all inclusive list!

Why those features? Long sight radius with greater weight makes an easy to shoot accurately platform. The weight makes it feel stable and soaks up the recoil.

Mag safeties do often mess with clean trigger feel, but can make it more unlikely a small child will be able to fire it. If you lock them up separately. Same with manual safeties.

The rail gives you the option of mounting a light. Some think that's important for identifying the target . I actually think it's better to turn on the room light. A gun light means you have to point the loud end at what you want to identify, could be a burgler, the cat or your kids. I REALLY don't like the idea a sleepy scared person in the middle of the night pointing a gun before determining if it's a target or not.

With all that said, the gun needs to be in a safe with kids. The only real safety is under the shooters hat! The kids need to be trained to respect the gun. Both parents need to be competent shooters.

Sorry to be long and rambling, but it's rainy and I'm stuck inside
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Old June 7, 2014, 04:56 PM   #27
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I'm in the same boat right now. Just submitted my LTC application and I'm mulling over what to get, assuming it goes through.

Two major things I've gotten from my search: With defense your primary concern and you being such a novice, the caliber sounds like a no brainer. If you want a revolver, .38spl or .357 and if you want a semi, 9mm.

Lots of people would suggest something bigger for defense, but since you're just starting out, you'll want something you can shoot a lot to practice with. Anything bigger is probably going to be prohibitively expensive to practice with as often as you should. Revolver vs. semi is pretty much preference as all the points kind of cancel each other out for a novice - revolves hold less ammo, but semis can jam.
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Old June 7, 2014, 10:04 PM   #28
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I pretty much agree with marine6680’s post #8 for the most part.

Education for the family is huge! I never kept my night stand gun in a safe even when the kids were small. I did and still do keep the magazine loaded, but nothing in the chamber. My wife and 13 year old daughter still have issues working the slide. More than likely from a lack of interest than anything else. I don’t even get second looks at home when walking through the house with some sort of firearm. Nothing wrong with some type of small safe if you want to go that route for your night stand gun.

I like DA/SA the best especially for CC. I don’t think they are the best action for a newer shooter. I think a DAO would be the best with a consistent and longer trigger pull. Another benefit is the visual of the hammer movement while working the trigger. Striker fired would be the next with its consistent trigger pull. Both are simple and most models don’t have additional safeties to manipulate.

Models wise in your budget for DAO’s would be the Sig P250 compact or full size or even the Walther PPX for even less money. Striker would be the Steyr M9-A1/L9-A1.

Getting more time with an instructor is a good idea in terms of working with your shooting and additional safety tips.
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Old June 7, 2014, 11:02 PM   #29
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Here's an option from Steyr, good guns:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=421037105

Ruger SR9 - If you're going to the range much, this is WAY more comfortable than the SR9c
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=420183809

Here's the S&W SV9DE. I've always been "meh" about them, they do appear to be a reliable gun, though:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=420634748

Glock 17. You can NOT go wrong with a G17! Unless of course you want the smaller G19:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=421040337

FN makes a nice gun, this is striker-fired. Mine is the FN-X(SA/DA) and I LOVE it.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=420638208

Here's that Sig 2022 someone mentioned:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=421045973

Lots of options out there. Take an NRA Basic Pistol course. I know you have some experience, but it will help make sure all the basics are taken care of. The take the NRA class "Personal Protection in the Home". These 2 will REALLY help! http://training.nra.org/training.aspx

There's quite a few quick-access safes out there. You can bolt one to the side of your bed or several other places. Just practice accessing and pulling your gun out from different positions etc so it's 2nd nature for you. I have a BRIGHT light/laser combo on mine, with extra loaded mags in the safe too.

I won't say "Good Luck", but get out there, get training, have a good time and "Luck" will be on your side!
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Old June 8, 2014, 08:30 AM   #30
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Thank you guys for all the input.

The SD9 VE looked appealing mostly due to the price point.

I could get that and a safe for around $500+

I could spend a bit more if I had to. I have about 2 weeks before I can purchase so I will research more.
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Old June 8, 2014, 09:08 AM   #31
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Quote:
I pretty much agree with marine6680’s post #8 for the most part.
Thanks.


Quote:
The SD9 VE looked appealing mostly due to the price point.
Budget is a concern for many.

Sometimes it helps smooth over the idea with a significant other... as a first time purchase means its a new experience for them as well, just having it in the house.


The SDVE line seems like a solid choice on a budget.


Worc mentioned the Sig P250... A double action only semiauto.

They are on clearance right now from many places. PSA has sales on them I have seen at less than $400.

They are good pistols, they just never took off as being popular. So Sig is discontinuing them. It is being replaced by the P320, which shares many components, and I believe the mags are the same, so replacements will be available.
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Old June 8, 2014, 01:52 PM   #32
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You don't need a reason to want what you want. There are arguments for and against both pistols and revolvers. That debate will probably never end. Same is true with calibers. Many will try to tell you to get what they like because it reinforces their decision to get what they got.

That said I have the Ruger SR9C. it is my every day carry. I heard that there were problems with the early ones, but the solution to that is buy a new one. I would say get about this size gun, as if you decide to get a concealed weapons permit it is still a good size. Full frame guns like a 1911 can be carried, but not as easily.
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Old June 8, 2014, 03:24 PM   #33
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I bought this safe and mounted it next to my bed, I have 3 kids ..... I have stored mine and my wifes 'fingerprint' so we are both able to open it

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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Old June 8, 2014, 06:11 PM   #34
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Check out S&W model 327 or 627. 357MAG power and either revolver holds 8 rounds! A company called 5 Star makes top notch speedloaders for these models and as an added bonus you can use 38's from a 357 for practice or carry.
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Old June 8, 2014, 06:43 PM   #35
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S&W M&P9 or 9c is well under your budget new. Glock is Glock for a reason and offers you the opportunity for upgrades as well. For a first gun, i think it would be hard to argue against Glock...simple, reliable, and when you get a new gun, you can appreciate how good the new trigger is ;-).

I like the Beretta 92fs suggestion, it's my favorite range gun, if you can find one within that budget I'd say go for it. Unless you have small hands, then the grip could be a little large and the safety and/or mag release can be a little hard to engage
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Old June 8, 2014, 10:03 PM   #36
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I have an SR9c.
I'm not sure what bad reviews you've heard, but it points very naturally, has a safety and a drop-proof trigger.

Also, although the best gun safety is education of the youth, get a gun safe if you're going to leave the gun un-attended. You never know how stupid the neighbor kids might be...

edit: good call on the safe. I should have read that first time around.
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Old June 9, 2014, 12:42 AM   #37
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I've seen a few different reviews on YouTube where different people were having a lot of jams with the SR9C. They all said they had to send it back. One guy multiple times but in the end they were fixed and worked fine.

Also one guy mentioned it was hard to rack the slide if you had to due to the extracted claw going through the serrations.

Although I've never shot a "safety" trigger like on the SR9c, it seemed a little odd to me. Not sure how I will like that.

Even with those issues, that's on the top of my radar along with the SD9 VE.

I really like the price of the SD9 VE but the looks and features like the rubber magazine extensions, loaded chamber indicator, ect. of the SR9C.

I'll probably end up with the SR9C unless I can find a really good deal on an M&P or something before I make the purchase.

Last edited by Maddnotez; June 9, 2014 at 01:27 AM.
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Old June 9, 2014, 11:44 AM   #38
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I'm very happy with my Tristar Canik55 T-120. Not that I would recommend it for your situation, but to let you know that the Canik pistols are worth a look. Check out this review for a 9mm that I would suggest for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93-DJbuBUEA
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Old June 9, 2014, 12:59 PM   #39
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All those features on an SR9 are just feel good features.

And they can lead to complacency...

As was said a few tines, the user makes for safety. Even the most redundant safety features can't prevent dumb behavior and poor safe handling.

You should know what state your defensive pistol is in... And if you don't, or forget... Its not hard to figure out. A press check or clear and make safe will tell you the situation. Any unknown firearm should be checked and cleared regardless.


Some would call a Ruger "lawyered up". But I have to hand it to them... They have found a niche with their products. The lower price, and those safety features can give first time buyers warm and fuzzies, which can lead to sales.

They are good firearms for the most part though.


If you are deciding between the SDVE line and the SR line...

I personally would choose the SDVE. I feel its a better pistol. A bit simpler to operate and maintain.
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Old June 9, 2014, 01:56 PM   #40
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interesting. Mine hasn't yet jammed, but maybe I bought after early-adopter issues were ironed out.
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Old June 9, 2014, 11:57 PM   #41
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Quote:
All those features on an SR9 are just feel good features.

And they can lead to complacency...
Garbage, "safety" features won't lead to complacency any more than the lack of them. Either you get complacent with your firearms or you don't, IMO.

The SR9c is a solid gun, and for a new shooter, especially for a new CCWer it is nice to start with the features that you can focus on to know you're safe. I.E. hook your thumb under the safety when holstering. That way you KNOW if something gets stuck in the trigger guard (unlikely if you are paying attention) you've got a layer of padding, just in case.

Train to swipe it off when presenting and eventually it'll be muscle memory. Heck I still swipe my Glocks when drawing, looking for a thumb safety that ain't even there, doubt that'll change anytime soon.

As always, YMMV.
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Old June 10, 2014, 09:19 AM   #42
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Quote:
Thanks for all the replies. The posts about safety have me thinking I have not done near enough research. I will most certainly be getting a safe and I would also sacrifice having a pistol and buying a revolver that for more safety.

That is something I need to really consider. It is a very important purchase but at the same time, with a good safe maybe that ultimately reigns supreme.
My first handgun was a Glock 17 purchased more than 20 years ago. It is still my HD gun as it has proven itself 100% reliable with a few thousand rounds through it. I wanted a gun that I would train with and shoot some competitions with so I would be proficient with my weapon. At that time it was dirt cheap to reload 9mm so that was my choice. I also wanted a gun that if I needed it, all I would have to do is pull the trigger and not have t think about an external safety. I trust and practice the 4 basic safety rules and never get too complacent when handling a gun.

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Old June 10, 2014, 01:03 PM   #43
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Complacent was the wrong word...


They can become a crutch to proper handling and procedure. Lead to laziness so to speak. Reliance on them rather than practicing safety and mental discipline.

Do they have a purpose? Yes... But one must be mindful not to lapse into bad habit.
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Old June 10, 2014, 01:28 PM   #44
Smokey McPeterson
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A Vote for SD9VE

I was a first time handgun buyer several months ago and got an SD9VE. I would highly recommend this gun. I obviously can't say it's better than any specific gun, just that it has worked flawlessly for me so far (250 rounds). The trigger is a little heavy, but it is smooth. There's an Apex spring kit that can lighten the trigger if you decide you want that. I'm getting used to the trigger, and every time I have been to the range I've shot better with it.

My criteria was to obtain a highly reliable but inexpensive 9mm, and so far the SD9VE has been just that. I would highly recommend checking out Hickock45's video on YouTube where he shoots one, I found it very helpful.
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Old June 10, 2014, 03:40 PM   #45
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A Vote for SD9VE
I was a first time handgun buyer several months ago and got an SD9VE. I would highly recommend this gun. I obviously can't say it's better than any specific gun, just that it has worked flawlessly for me so far (250 rounds). The trigger is a little heavy, but it is smooth. There's an Apex spring kit that can lighten the trigger if you decide you want that. I'm getting used to the trigger, and every time I have been to the range I've shot better with it.

My criteria was to obtain a highly reliable but inexpensive 9mm, and so far the SD9VE has been just that. I would highly recommend checking out Hickock45's video on YouTube where he shoots one, I found it very helpful.
Yea, I have watched a lot of his vids along with many others and have been doing quite a bit if reading.

There are more on my list to narrow down but right now my top two are the SR9c and the SD9ve mainly due to pricing but also multi purpose. I plan to get ccw in the future, they are small enough to carry, have enough rounds to shoot at the range and IMO are big enough to defend if needed.
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Old June 10, 2014, 04:30 PM   #46
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With kids in the house the very first facet in safety is in educating your kids about firearms
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Old June 11, 2014, 08:45 AM   #47
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Top 10

Father's Day is near and I will make the purchase in the next couple of weeks.

Here is what I came up with for my top 10 (ish) in no specific order.

S&W M&P
S&W SD VE
Ruger SR9C
CZ P07 Duty
Tristar C100
Canik TP9
Stoeger Cougar
EAA Witness
Sig Sauer (so many models)

Alot of these simply come down to price. I would like to be able to get a gun and a decent safe for $500-$600 ish when it is all said and done. I know a couple of these are copies but keep the budget in mind.

If I had a little more money or if I could find a good deal I would add FNH FNS a couple of Beretta, ect. to the list.

What do you think so far?

I appreciate all the help and feedback thus far.

I know it's a big list, too many options it seems like.
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Old June 11, 2014, 09:11 AM   #48
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In your last post you mentioned SIG as one of your options but in the original post stated $500 as a limit. If you're able to, I'd get a SIG. I love having a decocker on my carry guns.

If your budget is still around $500, I'd look at the XD. It's simple, reliable, and take down is very easy. My wife has an M&P and loves it. Beretta PX4 Storm is an option also. They have a slide mounted safety which is odd to a lot of people.
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Old June 11, 2014, 09:45 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odugrad
In your last post you mentioned SIG as one of your options but in the original post stated $500 as a limit. If you're able to, I'd get a SIG. I love having a decocker on my carry guns.

If your budget is still around $500, I'd look at the XD. It's simple, reliable, and take down is very easy. My wife has an M&P and loves it. Beretta PX4 Storm is an option also. They have a slide mounted safety which is odd to a lot of people.
I saw an sp2022 for $350. They called it the poor mans 226.

Also if I make errors or compare something by the wrong name I apologize. Lots of info crammed in as a lot of this is new to me

Another edit to avoid another post, I could go slightly over $500 for the right gun with getting a safe in mind but obviously would rather not.

Last edited by Maddnotez; June 11, 2014 at 10:16 AM.
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Old June 11, 2014, 09:59 AM   #50
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Many good options, some will push your budget though... But they are good pistols.


Sig makes good stuff but most options are higher priced.

The P250 which is getting phased out is on clearance at many places online. For $400 or a little less, you get a solid pistol.

Its double action only though, so dry fire one before deciding yes or no.

The 2022 is a good pistol, I personally do not like the trigger. The break is too far back and feels weird to me. You may like it, and if you do, its a good choice. Keep in mind it only comes with one magazine... Buying a second mag will add $40 to the price.

The XD was mentioned. The basic XD in 9mm can be had for a little over $400... It is also a great pistol.

The m&p is good as well but at the top end of the budget, so the money left for a safe is reduced.

The sdve line is solid and at a lower price. Some complain about the trigger, but I believe that was older versions.

The CZ I have heard is also a solid pistol, I have not shot the p07 myself. Its got the ability to be a decocker or safety... For defense I would use the decocker.

I heard good on the canik and tristars. I owned an eaa witness and it was a good shooter. My understanding is that they all use the larger 45 sized frame in the full sized pistols, as they make caliber conversions, and the larger frame is needed for the larger calibers like 45 and 10mm to work. The poly guns may be different and use the smaller 9mm sized frame, though I do not knowif that is so... Eaa customer service has a less than good reputation so keep that in mind.

Ruger makes a solid option, I personally am not a fan of all the redundant safety features.


As far as your list... My personal recommendations are.

If you like the trigger on the p250 sig, that would be a first choice, if you find one on sale.

Next I would say the sdve, or p07 depending on trigger preference.

Next Ruger or canik. Canik being made in Turkey may be a turn off for some. But I would choose it over a Ruger for home defense type of use. Mostly due to the simpler operation and design.

The CZ copies would be next in my list... I love CZs and they are great guns, the copies being copies tend to lower them on my personal list. Also the need to manually lower the hammer to go double action or need to use the safety if sticking to single action, lowers them on my list for a new shooter, unless we are talking a decock model.


But any pistol you mentioned will work well for your use/needs.

The only limiting factor may be your budget needs with also needing a small safe.

Last edited by marine6680; June 11, 2014 at 10:07 AM.
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