Ex Military? This is scary!

DepOne · August 27, 2011, 08:23 PM

I sure would like an explanation of what happened to me today. I went into a local gun shop to buy a firearm they had in stock at a very nice price. Florida law is very clear that if you do not have a license to carry a concealed weapon you must buy the gun and then wait 3 business days while a more thorough background check is done before you can take the gun out of the store. Those with concealed weapon licenses can take the gun that day, but still go through an "instant" background check because they have been thoroughly cleared already in order to qualify for the concealed license. That seems to make sense and I have been here for 20 years buying a gun occasionally with no wait.

Today I went through all of the paperwork, paid for the gun and the background check and the clerk called the state office to get my purchase cleared. He was on the phone over 20 minutes and when he hung up he told me that they had told him I would have to wait the 3 days that someone without a carry license would normally be required to wait. When I asked what the reason was for the wait he told me they said since I had been in the military and had a security clearance they had to do a more thorough check? Yes I was in the military and yes I had a security clearance due to a law enforcement job. I spent over 27 years in law enforcement ending my career as a sheriff's department major. I was also a police academy certified firearms instructor. It would seem that someone with that background would be easier to clear, not more difficult. But, because I had a security clearance in the military, I had to be checked more thoroughly, even though I'm licensed to carry a concealed weapon?

Funny, the Department of Homeland Security recently determined that ex military people were likely to have terrorist leanings. I wonder if this is in any way related and if you are ex military with a security clearance you are now deemed suspicious? Sounds a bit silly and a bit discriminatory to me, and I think veterans should start asking some pointed questions of their legislators. This is scary!

pnac · August 27, 2011, 09:09 PM

It ought to sound more than "a bit silly and a bit discriminatory", IMHO! All veterans. gunowners. Christians. home schoolers, etc. are the new enemy, it appears. I'm proud to say I qualify on several counts.

It could be worse though, I guess:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_852198.html

oneounceload · August 27, 2011, 09:16 PM

IF you have a FL CCW, then there is something more to the story - like your name is similar to someone else's with whom they have trouble - you should have walked out of the store

KyJim · August 27, 2011, 09:30 PM

Quote:

you should have walked out of the store

Why? It wasn't the store that held up the sale.

**Tom Servo** · August 27, 2011, 10:40 PM

Quote:

When I asked what the reason was for the wait he told me they said since I had been in the military and had a security clearance they had to do a more thorough check?

Something smells here. The operators never tell the proprietor why a delay or denial is issued. They're essentially data entry clerks, and they reiterate the answer the computer gives them after entering the information.

Quote:

Yes I was in the military and yes I had a security clearance due to a law enforcement job.

There's some suspicion that folks with clearance get delayed more often. Several acquaintances of mine do on a regular basis. I doubt it's due to anything discriminatory so much as it's due to having a flag of some sort (good or bad) on your record that needs to be checked by a human being.

Glenn Dee · August 28, 2011, 06:50 AM

I work in a gun store part time.

In my experience... The FDLE operator will never give a reason for the delay. The response is release the gun, conditional release, or denial. I've never had one tell me why. I have seen where some people are given a conditional based on their military or other service. Having a current clearance could delay. I have one customer who is retired from government service... and he is allways given a conditional. He is well aware of why, and will not share. Who knows. I'd suggest you try a different store. Perhaps use your SS# when making the purchase.

Glenn

ohen cepel · August 28, 2011, 07:35 AM

I've seen someone in the process of re-newing their clearance get delayed since the computer shows an open investigation on the person. Takes them a bit of time to see that it's an open clearance investigation and not something criminal.

The shop owner was giving you his best guess, nothing more.

Sounds like a computer glitch. If it starts to happen every time then I would look into it more.

Eghad · August 28, 2011, 08:08 AM

Why I am glad that in Texas the FBI background check is used. I am ex military and the usual wait is about 3-5 minutes to get approved via phone.

If you are military that information about clearances is stored on JPAS which a state of Florida clerk should not have access too. If you were law enforcement with a clearance then when you retired your civilian clearance may have been revoked and that is what the clerk is looking at. Wanting to find out if it was revoked due to an administrative action or an adverse action.

Carry_24/7 · August 28, 2011, 08:49 AM

Thats strange...because; I am a Florida resident, I have a Florida CC License, I was in the military, I currently work as a U.S. Navy contractor, I have a current Security Clearance, and I have never been hassled over taking a gun out of a shop or gun show within minutes.

The above comment from Glenn Dee sounds reasonable.

NJgunowner · August 28, 2011, 10:21 AM

I always give my SS for nics. I have a pretty common name and it just saves a lot of time and effort.

g.willikers · August 28, 2011, 05:47 PM

Florida has a state wide law requiring a three day wait for Everyone buying a handgun, unless they have a concealed carry license.
Those with the license still have to suffer the background check, though, but not the wait.
Some of the areas, like around Miami, have a five day wait.
And those are working days, not counting weekends and holidays.
A three day wait can, in some months, turn into a week.
Some other counties have wait periods for everything, not just handguns.
Goofy, ain't it?
So, even with a CCW, they still find a way to hassle folks.

oneounceload · August 28, 2011, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Florida has a state wide law requiring a three day wait for Everyone buying a handgun, unless they have a concealed carry license.
Those with the license still have to suffer the background check, though, but not the wait.
Some of the areas, like around Miami, have a five day wait.

State law now says cities cannot preempt state laws - three days is three days

BGutzman · August 28, 2011, 08:44 PM

I get a 3 or 4 hour delay on every firearm I have ever bought. I held a security clearance and acted as a border guard during the cold war and even guarded nukes... I have zero convictions and I retired from the military and I have a current CCW permit... so dont feel alone...

Im not sure what the deal is but usually I tell the clerk right before they call it in that it will be delayed and I will come back later in the day... I have been right 100% of the time since it happened during my first pistol purchase.

rwilson452 · August 28, 2011, 10:07 PM

I'm retired Navy I had a high clearance in the Navy and as a civilian. I don't have an active clearance and have never had a hold when buying here in PA.

MJ45 · August 28, 2011, 10:38 PM

This seems to show total lack respect for your past service. if there is any reason to delay your purchase over a more ordinary customer, one would wonder what do they expect to find? are they looking in broad daylight instead of the shadows? thank you for your service and i am sorry for your inconveniance.

raisitup · August 28, 2011, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Florida has a state wide law requiring a three day wait for Everyone buying a handgun, unless they have a concealed carry license.
Those with the license still have to suffer the background check, though, but not the wait.
Some of the areas, like around Miami, have a five day wait.

State law now says cities cannot preempt state laws - three days is three days

I thought the same thing when I read his post, glad to see all those junior laws going the way of the dodo. That said, the new law effectively banishing more restrictive local ordinances doesn't go into effect until October 1st.

Ryan

DepOne · August 29, 2011, 06:47 PM

Very interesting. I called FBI/NICS and spoke to a very nice lady in Customer Service, believe it or not. She listened to my tale of woe and said that they would never do such a thing and, she wasn't trying to blow me off but could not answer my question. The FBI and federal government has nothing to do with Florida background checks. Florida has their own system and our friendly feds are out of it. She did also say that she can't imagine either them or Florida discriminating against any veteran and that your congressman would explode if he ever heard of such a thing.

I will do a little investigating at the state level and let you know what I find. My dealer did call again today and try to run the check again and got his butt chewed out for trying to sneak around the system. Maybe I will have to have a legislator or even the state's attorney's office look into the practice (after I get approved.) Something still stinks!

Eghad · August 29, 2011, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Thats strange...because; I am a Florida resident, I have a Florida CC License, I was in the military, I currently work as a U.S. Navy contractor, I have a current Security Clearance, and I have never been hassled over taking a gun out of a shop or gun show within minutes.

That is because your clearance information is on JPAS which is a DoD system.

If Dep was a local law enforcement official in the State of Florida. His official records for the state may indicate that he had a Federal Security Clearance that was revoked. A clearance may be revoked because of an adverse action such as a criminal conviction or an administrative action such as retirement. If the record just says revoked then the clerk is probably to check the reason for the revocation and make sure it is not a criminal charge.

**Aguila Blanca** · August 30, 2011, 09:02 AM

I'm an Army veteran and I held a security clearance when I was in. My state is one of those in which a carry permit basically is the background check. The gun shop calls the state police, the state police confirm that my permit is valid, and I walk out with a firearm.

I guess I never realized how fortunate I am. It's sad when serving one's country faithfully gets used against you for the rest of your life.

MLeake · August 30, 2011, 09:28 AM

I've only heard of this happening during clearance renewal investigation periods... speaking of which, mine should be coming up in a few months. It will be interesting to see if there are any issues at that point.

rigby06 · August 30, 2011, 09:47 AM

I have no problem in getting approved for a hand gun/rifle/shotgun, takes about 15 minutes or less.

My friend on the other hand, former Homeland security agent, takes hours or sometimes days. He had allot of security clearances when he was an agent. Each time his id is run they have to re-verify the access. That means each time he wants to buy a gun, they re-check each access to make sure no issues. The more access you have, the more secure your access type was; the longer it will take. A friend of his a former police officer takes just as long.

It is nothing again the original Post, just the nature of the beast.

Don P · August 30, 2011, 10:00 AM

Ah HA! Answers

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:

Very interesting. I called FBI/NICS and spoke to a very nice lady in Customer Service, believe it or not. She listened to my tale of woe and said that they would never do such a thing and, she wasn't trying to blow me off but could not answer my question. The FBI and federal government has nothing to do with Florida background checks. Florida has their own system and our friendly feds are out of it. She did also say that she can't imagine either them or Florida discriminating against any veteran and that your congressman would explode if he ever heard of such a thing.

I will do a little investigating at the state level and let you know what I find. My dealer did call again today and try to run the check again and got his butt chewed out for trying to sneak around the system. Maybe I will have to have a legislator or even the state's attorney's office look into the practice (after I get approved.) Something still stinks!

Sounds like you have encountered the proverbial idiot gun store employee. I sure hope you had you hip waders on cause the fertilizer was real high with reason that you were given.

ClydeFrog · September 2, 2011, 03:46 AM

I have many, many doubts about this forum member's posted remarks.

A "real" sworn LE officer of any type would have a detailed understanding of the NCIC(background check system) and/or the ups & downs of the US Dept of Homeland Security, DoD, NARA(national archives & records; www.NARA.gov ).
A real or former US law enforcement officer would know or at least be aware of the FLEOSA(federal law signed by President Bush) to allow some retired or ex sworn LEOs to carry loaded, concealed firearms nationwide.
Does this "retired Major" & former veteran not know of these plans or laws?
I honestly doubt DHS or any other federal agency is really deeply concerned about every US veteran who buys a firearm.
Think about it. A real in-depth program would require millions of US tax $ & 100s of full time, trained federal employees to do what the forum member states in his post.

I call; "quackers" to this post!

ClayInTx · September 2, 2011, 04:11 AM

I’d wait awhile before dissing DepOne.

I’ve seen many stupid actions by our wonderful guvmint and would hesitate to say it didn’t happen.

Let’s wait until the fat lady sings.

Datguy781 · September 2, 2011, 04:34 AM

This is strange being a Florida resident and being guardsman. I came back home and bought several guns from various stores with out any delay from uncle sam. As others said I think there is more going on that only the state knows.

August 27, 2011, 08:23 PM	#1
DepOne Member Join Date: August 27, 2011 Posts: 35	Ex Military? This is scary! I sure would like an explanation of what happened to me today. I went into a local gun shop to buy a firearm they had in stock at a very nice price. Florida law is very clear that if you do not have a license to carry a concealed weapon you must buy the gun and then wait 3 business days while a more thorough background check is done before you can take the gun out of the store. Those with concealed weapon licenses can take the gun that day, but still go through an "instant" background check because they have been thoroughly cleared already in order to qualify for the concealed license. That seems to make sense and I have been here for 20 years buying a gun occasionally with no wait. Today I went through all of the paperwork, paid for the gun and the background check and the clerk called the state office to get my purchase cleared. He was on the phone over 20 minutes and when he hung up he told me that they had told him I would have to wait the 3 days that someone without a carry license would normally be required to wait. When I asked what the reason was for the wait he told me they said since I had been in the military and had a security clearance they had to do a more thorough check? Yes I was in the military and yes I had a security clearance due to a law enforcement job. I spent over 27 years in law enforcement ending my career as a sheriff's department major. I was also a police academy certified firearms instructor. It would seem that someone with that background would be easier to clear, not more difficult. But, because I had a security clearance in the military, I had to be checked more thoroughly, even though I'm licensed to carry a concealed weapon? Funny, the Department of Homeland Security recently determined that ex military people were likely to have terrorist leanings. I wonder if this is in any way related and if you are ex military with a security clearance you are now deemed suspicious? Sounds a bit silly and a bit discriminatory to me, and I think veterans should start asking some pointed questions of their legislators. This is scary!

August 27, 2011, 09:09 PM	#2
pnac Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2008 Posts: 550	It ought to sound more than "a bit silly and a bit discriminatory", IMHO! All veterans. gunowners. Christians. home schoolers, etc. are the new enemy, it appears. I'm proud to say I qualify on several counts. It could be worse though, I guess: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_852198.html __________________ In my hour of darkness In my time of need Oh Lord grant me vision Oh Lord grant me speed - Gram Parsons

August 28, 2011, 07:35 AM	#7
ohen cepel Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 1999 Location: Where they send me Posts: 1,013	I've seen someone in the process of re-newing their clearance get delayed since the computer shows an open investigation on the person. Takes them a bit of time to see that it's an open clearance investigation and not something criminal. The shop owner was giving you his best guess, nothing more. Sounds like a computer glitch. If it starts to happen every time then I would look into it more. __________________ He who dares wins. NRA Life Benefactor Member

August 28, 2011, 08:08 AM	#8
Eghad Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 6,231	Why I am glad that in Texas the FBI background check is used. I am ex military and the usual wait is about 3-5 minutes to get approved via phone. If you are military that information about clearances is stored on JPAS which a state of Florida clerk should not have access too. If you were law enforcement with a clearance then when you retired your civilian clearance may have been revoked and that is what the clerk is looking at. Wanting to find out if it was revoked due to an administrative action or an adverse action. __________________ Have a nice day at the range NRA Life Member

August 28, 2011, 10:21 AM	#10
NJgunowner Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2009 Location: NJ Posts: 1,254	I always give my SS for nics. I have a pretty common name and it just saves a lot of time and effort. Last edited by NJgunowner; August 29, 2011 at 08:18 PM.

August 27, 2011, 09:16 PM	#3
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	IF you have a FL CCW, then there is something more to the story - like your name is similar to someone else's with whom they have trouble - you should have walked out of the store

August 28, 2011, 06:50 AM	#6
Glenn Dee Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2009 Location: South Florida Posts: 1,560	I work in a gun store part time. In my experience... The FDLE operator will never give a reason for the delay. The response is release the gun, conditional release, or denial. I've never had one tell me why. I have seen where some people are given a conditional based on their military or other service. Having a current clearance could delay. I have one customer who is retired from government service... and he is allways given a conditional. He is well aware of why, and will not share. Who knows. I'd suggest you try a different store. Perhaps use your SS# when making the purchase. Glenn

August 28, 2011, 08:49 AM	#9
Carry_24/7 Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2011 Posts: 801	Thats strange...because; I am a Florida resident, I have a Florida CC License, I was in the military, I currently work as a U.S. Navy contractor, I have a current Security Clearance, and I have never been hassled over taking a gun out of a shop or gun show within minutes. The above comment from Glenn Dee sounds reasonable.

August 28, 2011, 05:47 PM	#11
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Florida has a state wide law requiring a three day wait for Everyone buying a handgun, unless they have a concealed carry license. Those with the license still have to suffer the background check, though, but not the wait. Some of the areas, like around Miami, have a five day wait. And those are working days, not counting weekends and holidays. A three day wait can, in some months, turn into a week. Some other counties have wait periods for everything, not just handguns. Goofy, ain't it? So, even with a CCW, they still find a way to hassle folks. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.” Last edited by g.willikers; August 28, 2011 at 05:55 PM.

August 28, 2011, 08:44 PM	#13
BGutzman Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2009 Location: Frozen Tundra Posts: 2,414	I get a 3 or 4 hour delay on every firearm I have ever bought. I held a security clearance and acted as a border guard during the cold war and even guarded nukes... I have zero convictions and I retired from the military and I have a current CCW permit... so dont feel alone... Im not sure what the deal is but usually I tell the clerk right before they call it in that it will be delayed and I will come back later in the day... I have been right 100% of the time since it happened during my first pistol purchase. __________________ Molon Labe Last edited by BGutzman; August 29, 2011 at 10:25 AM.

August 28, 2011, 10:07 PM	#14
rwilson452 Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2004 Location: Tioga co. PA Posts: 2,647	I'm retired Navy I had a high clearance in the Navy and as a civilian. I don't have an active clearance and have never had a hold when buying here in PA. __________________ USNRET '61-'81

August 28, 2011, 10:38 PM	#15
MJ45 Member Join Date: August 15, 2011 Location: Midwest Posts: 51	This seems to show total lack respect for your past service. if there is any reason to delay your purchase over a more ordinary customer, one would wonder what do they expect to find? are they looking in broad daylight instead of the shadows? thank you for your service and i am sorry for your inconveniance.

August 29, 2011, 06:47 PM	#17
DepOne Member Join Date: August 27, 2011 Posts: 35	Ah HA! Answers Very interesting. I called FBI/NICS and spoke to a very nice lady in Customer Service, believe it or not. She listened to my tale of woe and said that they would never do such a thing and, she wasn't trying to blow me off but could not answer my question. The FBI and federal government has nothing to do with Florida background checks. Florida has their own system and our friendly feds are out of it. She did also say that she can't imagine either them or Florida discriminating against any veteran and that your congressman would explode if he ever heard of such a thing. I will do a little investigating at the state level and let you know what I find. My dealer did call again today and try to run the check again and got his butt chewed out for trying to sneak around the system. Maybe I will have to have a legislator or even the state's attorney's office look into the practice (after I get approved.) Something still stinks!

August 30, 2011, 09:02 AM	#19
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,459	I'm an Army veteran and I held a security clearance when I was in. My state is one of those in which a carry permit basically is the background check. The gun shop calls the state police, the state police confirm that my permit is valid, and I walk out with a firearm. I guess I never realized how fortunate I am. It's sad when serving one's country faithfully gets used against you for the rest of your life.

August 30, 2011, 09:28 AM	#20
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	I've only heard of this happening during clearance renewal investigation periods... speaking of which, mine should be coming up in a few months. It will be interesting to see if there are any issues at that point.

August 30, 2011, 09:47 AM	#21
rigby06 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2010 Location: Richmond VA Posts: 370	excessive time to pick up a gun I have no problem in getting approved for a hand gun/rifle/shotgun, takes about 15 minutes or less. My friend on the other hand, former Homeland security agent, takes hours or sometimes days. He had allot of security clearances when he was an agent. Each time his id is run they have to re-verify the access. That means each time he wants to buy a gun, they re-check each access to make sure no issues. The more access you have, the more secure your access type was; the longer it will take. A friend of his a former police officer takes just as long. It is nothing again the original Post, just the nature of the beast.

September 2, 2011, 03:46 AM	#23
ClydeFrog Junior member Join Date: May 1, 2010 Posts: 5,797	I claim; "SHNANAGANS!"... I have many, many doubts about this forum member's posted remarks. A "real" sworn LE officer of any type would have a detailed understanding of the NCIC(background check system) and/or the ups & downs of the US Dept of Homeland Security, DoD, NARA(national archives & records; www.NARA.gov ). A real or former US law enforcement officer would know or at least be aware of the FLEOSA(federal law signed by President Bush) to allow some retired or ex sworn LEOs to carry loaded, concealed firearms nationwide. Does this "retired Major" & former veteran not know of these plans or laws? I honestly doubt DHS or any other federal agency is really deeply concerned about every US veteran who buys a firearm. Think about it. A real in-depth program would require millions of US tax $ & 100s of full time, trained federal employees to do what the forum member states in his post. I call; "quackers" to this post!

September 2, 2011, 04:11 AM	#24
ClayInTx Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,066	I’d wait awhile before dissing DepOne. I’ve seen many stupid actions by our wonderful guvmint and would hesitate to say it didn’t happen. Let’s wait until the fat lady sings. __________________ . No people should have to fear the will of their government; all governments should have to fear the will of their people.

September 2, 2011, 04:34 AM	#25
Datguy781 Member Join Date: August 29, 2011 Location: Florida Posts: 93	This is strange being a Florida resident and being guardsman. I came back home and bought several guns from various stores with out any delay from uncle sam. As others said I think there is more going on that only the state knows.