Throw gun or weak hand scenario? - Page 2

sm · May 28, 2004, 08:52 PM

Weak hand.
I don't have a SO currently.
I tend to hang with folks that CCW. WE often have shot together -at least some ,if not a lot - so we aremore likely to a "team", in our thinking and methods.

El Lurch · June 7, 2004, 11:29 AM

A few years have passed since this got chopped off, interesting. A lot of people assumed a number of things and, with the original poster not present, assumptions continue in lieu of questions.

"You've gone out to dinner with your SO ... when you walked out to your car in the parking lot there are only a few cars left ... As you near your car, you see 3 guys sitting on the trunk of another car blocking your path to your car."

With few cars in the lot and BGs' close to GGs, it means that you will see them from a distance. This is the time to take a long, hard look at them and then go back into the place and drag the boss out and point at them and ask him to nod and go back in - the BGs should assume that they have been made. If that isn't possible, take out your cell phone and punch a short number - most PDs in most places will have a RPC roll by, just to show the shield and provide preventive support if they aren't busy elsewhere.

Assuming that doesn't work or you are negligent in situational awareness and the furthe scene ensues -

"You try to get around them and two of them jump off their car and one guy immediately whips out a snubbie and points it at your head. The other guy makes rude noises about what he'd like to do with your SO."

Your hand should have already been on your weapon, ready to draw, with your SO in a position behind you and watching your 6 - all this depends on which one of you is best at what follows, of course. SO might want some target practice. By the time

"BG-1 tells BG-2 to "off the guy" so they can have fun with your SO."

the armed BG should be full of your favorite holes and not moving any more. With their vehicle as a nice backdrop, rate of fire can be increased. There whould also have been enough distance for you to have chosen your field of fire - no one approaches such a situation as the BGs have planned it - your analogue OODA system has generated plans to execute so do it at a good distance, which should favor you. They have one snubbie, you have... whaaaat? You didn't take the big boy out for a walk tonight and just have your pocket mouse gun with you? You the guy who doesn't believe in carrying serious steel?

The other BGs are co-assailants in an armed assault. In Florida, if one of them goes dead, they get charged with murder (1, I believe). I suppose there are other states in which GG would be put away for using excessive force.

You are still trying to figure out what happened, hoo boy...

"You figured it was a simple robbery up to this point, but the minute you hear "off the guy." You see that BG-2 has his eyes off of you..... You draw your CCW and you both fire at the same time. BG-2 goes down and you feel a sharp pain in your gun hand. Bg-1 is moving towards BG-2 and his gun......
....do you switch to weak hand and try to nail BG-2? or do you try to toss your CCW to your SO? or do you choose to do something else? What? Oh by the way, BG-3 is moving quickly towards you? Now what?"

Do a quick function test by shooting at the closest BG or once at BG 2 if he is really close to getting the gun. If the weapon is damaged, you cannot shoot, or cannot shoot well, you should have moved your weak-side hand (which is now your strong side hand) to take out your BUG and start shooting one shot at the most serious threat, two at the closest threat and back to the other BG. Save some for BG 1, who may be down but not out.

Whaaaaaat ?!? You the guy who doesn't believe in a backup gun? Well, then you need to be getting that weapon into shooting. You might also try running back to the restaurant, as the shooting must have caused a stir.

Trouble with scenarios like these is that they tend to be so open and iffy that it is difficult to come up with a clear answer.

Oh yeah, don't toss the piect to SO, get it working in either of your hands, if you can. Backpedaling while this is going on isn't a bad idea, either - keeps distance betweek you and BGs.

asinner1979 · June 23, 2004, 11:59 AM

my so would have shot him them moment he said off him and had i been shot in my strong hand i would pull my back up 44 spl (dont want to try to fire a damaged gun) and fire with my weak hand
remember practice

Any .45 · June 23, 2004, 01:06 PM

4th Dan in aikido, 3rd dan ju-jitsu, recent shooter. SO runs 400m track and feild for local university. The threat would have been neutrilized from the jump off the car, and BG-2's motion of lifting the gun hand. Broken arm for bg-2, gun in my hand, BG-1 would be in a situation that he won't ever forget for the unneeded comments about SO, before he can pull out (in case he's carrying), and if BG-3 is brave enough to stay for his situation then he's out of luck, too. Now if BG-3 is smart and takes off in the auto, get model car plates if possible call 911 for ambulance and PD, (since most criminals are smart and might go steel a car for their safety) tell 911 dispatcher car info ASAP, then ask for ambulance. then no shoots fired and situation was resolved semi-peacefully.

Now for situational purposes lets say i haven't been training, for the past 10 yrs. And i was just a person with a CCW. My hand would have been on the CCW with SO ready to take off back where we just came from calling PD. CCW would be half way out of IWB in hand when BG-2 see's the 1911 he shoots and injures my hand weak hand started traing to shoot the same time strong hand did even though weak hand is a little it could handle the 1911 just fine. Kick gun away if close enough. One real close shot for BG-1 for attempting to move towards BG-2 and gun. If he continues to move one shot to the leg is suffice for immobility. BG-3 gets same treatment ( Considering the fact that BG-3 is brave like that).

May 28, 2004, 08:52 PM	#26
sm Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2002 Posts: 1,819	Weak hand. I don't have a SO currently. I tend to hang with folks that CCW. WE often have shot together -at least some ,if not a lot - so we aremore likely to a "team", in our thinking and methods. __________________ Use Enough Gun TFL Alumni

June 23, 2004, 11:59 AM	#28
asinner1979 Member Join Date: June 16, 2004 Location: usa Posts: 35	so my so would have shot him them moment he said off him and had i been shot in my strong hand i would pull my back up 44 spl (dont want to try to fire a damaged gun) and fire with my weak hand remember practice

June 7, 2004, 11:29 AM	#27
El Lurch Member Join Date: August 9, 2001 Posts: 28	A few years have passed since this got chopped off, interesting. A lot of people assumed a number of things and, with the original poster not present, assumptions continue in lieu of questions. "You've gone out to dinner with your SO ... when you walked out to your car in the parking lot there are only a few cars left ... As you near your car, you see 3 guys sitting on the trunk of another car blocking your path to your car." With few cars in the lot and BGs' close to GGs, it means that you will see them from a distance. This is the time to take a long, hard look at them and then go back into the place and drag the boss out and point at them and ask him to nod and go back in - the BGs should assume that they have been made. If that isn't possible, take out your cell phone and punch a short number - most PDs in most places will have a RPC roll by, just to show the shield and provide preventive support if they aren't busy elsewhere. Assuming that doesn't work or you are negligent in situational awareness and the furthe scene ensues - "You try to get around them and two of them jump off their car and one guy immediately whips out a snubbie and points it at your head. The other guy makes rude noises about what he'd like to do with your SO." Your hand should have already been on your weapon, ready to draw, with your SO in a position behind you and watching your 6 - all this depends on which one of you is best at what follows, of course. SO might want some target practice. By the time "BG-1 tells BG-2 to "off the guy" so they can have fun with your SO." the armed BG should be full of your favorite holes and not moving any more. With their vehicle as a nice backdrop, rate of fire can be increased. There whould also have been enough distance for you to have chosen your field of fire - no one approaches such a situation as the BGs have planned it - your analogue OODA system has generated plans to execute so do it at a good distance, which should favor you. They have one snubbie, you have... whaaaat? You didn't take the big boy out for a walk tonight and just have your pocket mouse gun with you? You the guy who doesn't believe in carrying serious steel? The other BGs are co-assailants in an armed assault. In Florida, if one of them goes dead, they get charged with murder (1, I believe). I suppose there are other states in which GG would be put away for using excessive force. You are still trying to figure out what happened, hoo boy... "You figured it was a simple robbery up to this point, but the minute you hear "off the guy." You see that BG-2 has his eyes off of you..... You draw your CCW and you both fire at the same time. BG-2 goes down and you feel a sharp pain in your gun hand. Bg-1 is moving towards BG-2 and his gun...... ....do you switch to weak hand and try to nail BG-2? or do you try to toss your CCW to your SO? or do you choose to do something else? What? Oh by the way, BG-3 is moving quickly towards you? Now what?" Do a quick function test by shooting at the closest BG or once at BG 2 if he is really close to getting the gun. If the weapon is damaged, you cannot shoot, or cannot shoot well, you should have moved your weak-side hand (which is now your strong side hand) to take out your BUG and start shooting one shot at the most serious threat, two at the closest threat and back to the other BG. Save some for BG 1, who may be down but not out. Whaaaaaat ?!? You the guy who doesn't believe in a backup gun? Well, then you need to be getting that weapon into shooting. You might also try running back to the restaurant, as the shooting must have caused a stir. Trouble with scenarios like these is that they tend to be so open and iffy that it is difficult to come up with a clear answer. Oh yeah, don't toss the piect to SO, get it working in either of your hands, if you can. Backpedaling while this is going on isn't a bad idea, either - keeps distance betweek you and BGs.

June 23, 2004, 01:06 PM	#29
Any .45 Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2004 Location: SW FLORIDA, USA Posts: 604	4th Dan in aikido, 3rd dan ju-jitsu, recent shooter. SO runs 400m track and feild for local university. The threat would have been neutrilized from the jump off the car, and BG-2's motion of lifting the gun hand. Broken arm for bg-2, gun in my hand, BG-1 would be in a situation that he won't ever forget for the unneeded comments about SO, before he can pull out (in case he's carrying), and if BG-3 is brave enough to stay for his situation then he's out of luck, too. Now if BG-3 is smart and takes off in the auto, get model car plates if possible call 911 for ambulance and PD, (since most criminals are smart and might go steel a car for their safety) tell 911 dispatcher car info ASAP, then ask for ambulance. then no shoots fired and situation was resolved semi-peacefully. Now for situational purposes lets say i haven't been training, for the past 10 yrs. And i was just a person with a CCW. My hand would have been on the CCW with SO ready to take off back where we just came from calling PD. CCW would be half way out of IWB in hand when BG-2 see's the 1911 he shoots and injures my hand weak hand started traing to shoot the same time strong hand did even though weak hand is a little it could handle the 1911 just fine. Kick gun away if close enough. One real close shot for BG-1 for attempting to move towards BG-2 and gun. If he continues to move one shot to the leg is suffice for immobility. BG-3 gets same treatment ( Considering the fact that BG-3 is brave like that).