Old Glock Mag issues in Newer Glock

NY321 · February 2, 2012, 10:38 PM

I recently bought 3 pre-ban Glock 22 magazines (15 round) at a gun show in NYS. Glock 22 magazines are suppose to work in a Glock 23 and Glock 27. I tried them in a Glock 27 gen3 and all 3 magazines had failures to feed. I installed new followers and wolff springs in each mag, still had same issue. They work better in my Glock 23 gen2 with an occasional failure to feed. The only thing i can see is that the Glock 27 gen3 came with magazines with a newer design, and that maybe the older magazines don't seat well. Does that make sense?

My true question is that ultimately i would like to get a new Glock 22 gen3; however, will my 3 pre-ban magazines work? Should i try to get a used Glock 22 gen2 instead? Thanks...

Note: I live in NYS so i am not allowed to buy hi-capacity (over 10 rounds) magazines. I can only get pre-ban magazines made prior to 1994 if i want magazines over 10 rounds...

**JohnKSa** · February 2, 2012, 11:47 PM

If the mags are .40S&W factory Glock mags and lock in place properly they should also work properly. I have Glock mags & Glock pistols that span a roughly 20 year period of manufacture and have had no issues with old mags not working in new guns or new mags not working in old guns.

The only intra-caliber incompatibility issue I'm aware of would actually preclude the magazines from locking in place.

btmj · February 3, 2012, 09:49 AM

I have a 1991 G17 (early gen 2) which I bought new in July 1991, along with 3 G17 mags.

I also have a G19 (late production gen 3) which I bought new in 2009. I have found that those old G17 mags are not reliable in the much newer G19. They work well most of the time, but occasionally the slide locks back when there are still rounds in the mag. I also had a couple of FTFs. In the 20 years I have been shooting that old G17 it has never had a single malfunction. I have never had a single malfunction with the G19, except for the few times I used those old G17 mags.

Crow Hunter · February 3, 2012, 01:27 PM

I assume that your failure to feed is the round nosediving and getting caught on the feed ramp. Not closing on an empty chamber or something else.

Test to try.

Load the G27 with the longer mags.

Slip a small shim between the back of the magazine and the back of the magazine well such that the bottom of the magazine can't rock towards you when you grip it.

Then try it.

You could also try it with dummy cartridges and easing it closed to see if there is a difference between new and old mags.

If this fixes it. you may be be pulling the magazine back slightly when you grip it changing the feed geometry slightly. Older Pre-ban mags were designed for a slightly more generous feed ramp than is present on the newer Glock .40s. (The infamous "unsupported chamber".)

You can measure the top edge of the follower to the top edge of the mag release cut out to see if there is a difference between your new and old mags and see too.

Mrgunsngear · February 3, 2012, 01:48 PM

All generations should work in a Gen3 22. That said, the Gen3 22s went through some growing pains in terms of mag follower/spring combinations and Glock will replace them if you're having issues.

FWIW, the latest follower for the G22s is the #9 I believe.

voyager4520 · February 3, 2012, 03:10 PM

Which followers did you put into the pre-ban magazines? Which followers did those pre-ban magazines originally have?

.40 standard capacity magazines which originally came with followers 1028(#1) through #5 should only use one of those followers. Magazines that originally came with followers #6 through #8 should use one of those followers.

Seeing as they're pre-ban magazines, I'm pretty sure the latest follower they can use is the #5 follower. Keep the Wolff springs, and either put the original followers back in or buy some #5 followers for them.

#5 followers: http://glockparts.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=7204&CAT=711

Another source for #5 followers: http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.a...OD=376&CAT=192

#9 followers are supposed to work in magazines that originally came with followers #6 through #8, but the part of the #9 follower which engages the slide stop is slightly wider and may not rise fully in the magazine, usually causing failure of the slide to lock back. If this is the case, you can look at that part of the #9 follower and see a rub mark developing, you can shave that rub mark down until the follower rises fully in the magazine.

Mrgunsngear · February 3, 2012, 03:35 PM

Voyager---thanks for expounding. You hit it on the head.

NY321 · February 3, 2012, 10:44 PM

First of all, thanks to all you guys for your input and help….

JohnKSa – These are factory Glock mags and they seem to lock into place pretty good. However, I do notice that the newer mags seem to engage the follower higher than the older mags…

Btmj – Same experience I had with my Glock 23 gen2, I never had any issues with any mags / ammo until I tried using the Glock 22 pre-ban magazines.

Crow hunter – yes, the rounds are nose diving and getting caught on the feed ramp. I’ll try your test when I get a chance. We did try to be careful with our grips when shooting the Glock 27, but the feeding issues happen to almost every round, with all 3 mags.

Voyager4520 – The pre-ban mags had followers with numbers below #5 (I believe it was #3 and #4). I replaced the followers with the #5 followers (old style). The old followers and the #5 followers both did not work. We even tried using the follower from the newer mag, but still had the same negative results.

2 additional comments:

1) My brother (police officer) tried a Glock 22 post ban (newer) 15 round mag (his friend is a police officer also, he let us try his) in the glock 27 with great results (maybe just 2 failures to feed) So the issue is definitely with the older pre-ban mags…

2) I did call Glock ( I felt the tech was short and rude). After I explained to him that my older Glock 22 pre-ban mags causes failure to feed issues in my Glock 27 gen3, he replied “yeah, that can happen”….

NY321 · February 3, 2012, 10:54 PM

At this point, I plan to give up on using the Glock 22 pre-ban mags in the Glock 23 gen2 and Glock 27 gen3.

However, I would like to buy a new Glock 22 gen3. Will my Glock 22 pre-ban mags work then?? Or would they work better in a used Glock 22 gen2?? Or should I just totally give up and move to a State away from NY! Lol…

**JohnKSa** · February 3, 2012, 10:55 PM

Quote:

After I explained to him that my older Glock 22 pre-ban mags causes failure to feed issues in my Glock 27 gen3, he replied “yeah, that can happen”….

Very interesting thread. So I learned something--I was not aware of this issue.

NY321 · February 4, 2012, 10:54 AM

Yes JohnKSa, I was very surprised when he admitted the issue. I was expecting a lecture on me doing something wrong. As you can see with btmj response, some others are having the same issues. Many people don't know about it. I've spoken to a few gun dealers and they all assume the same "it should work".

Even though Glock claims that magazines are interchangeable with different model guns, within the same caliber (http://www.glock.com/english/index_magazines.htm), It seems that older glock pre-ban magazines do not work in newer guns of different models...

I do plan to shoot a Glock 22 gen3 and use the 3 pre-ban Glock 22 magazines in about 2 weeks, I'll let you guys know what happens....

Nanuk · February 4, 2012, 12:46 PM

I had a similar problem with my Glock 23 and a 9mm conversion. I had mistakenly bought 10 round mags, my gun does not like those 10 round mags, the follower is enough different.

voyager4520 · February 4, 2012, 06:58 PM

When you shoot the G27 with the extended magazines, is any part of your hand touching the extended portion of the magazine? If you use the extended portion of the magazine as part of your grip, it can result in failures to feed. When I shoot my G27 with longer magazines, I stick my pinky finger out and make sure not to touch the magazine with my hands.

Quote:

I did call Glock ( I felt the tech was short and rude).

Yeah I think I've talked to that guy before, he'll say anything to get you off the phone as quickly as possible because he apparently hates his job, I wouldn't believe a single word he says.

I use G23 magazines with #5 followers in my G27 and I have no problems. I also use newer G23 magazines with #8 and #9 followers, and I use Glock-made 22-round magazines with #9 followers, all with no problems.

If you still had two failures to feed with post-ban magazines, that shouldn't happen, it should be flawless. That suggests that the issue may be using the extended magazine as part of the grip, or there's something wrong with the gun. If it's the gun, it could be a weak guide rod spring assembly. It may also be a tight extractor, either the extractor is out-of-spec and doesn't move freely enough or it has a lot of residue built up around it. The extractor being the cause is less likely since you don't have problems with G27 magazines.

**JohnKSa** · February 4, 2012, 10:54 PM

Quote:

It seems that older glock pre-ban magazines do not work in newer guns of different models...

Is it the older mags not working in newer guns, or is this more of an issue of mags for the larger guns not working reliably in the smaller Glocks?

So far it sounds like most of the incidents reported on this thread fall into the latter category.

btmj · February 5, 2012, 03:55 AM

I think it is well established that a modern G17 mag will work just fine in a modern G19 or G26.

In my case it is the old pre-ban magazines in a new gun that cause the issue.

**JohnKSa** · February 5, 2012, 01:22 PM

It still seems that one of the primary factors is using a long magazine in a smaller gun.

So a combination of the two factors, apparently. Does the following summary seem to be accurate?

Old mag in new gun of the same capacity=OK.
New mag in new gun of smaller capacity=OK.
Old mag in old gun of smaller capacity=OK.
Old mag in new gun of smaller capacity=Problematic.

NY321 · February 6, 2012, 04:44 PM

Voyager4520, my 2 occasions of having a FTL when using the Glock 22 mags in my Glock 23 gen2 can probably be attributed to my grip. However, having FTL issues when using the Glock 22 mags in the Glock 27 gen3 almost every single time with all 3 mags, there's definitely a compatibility problem there...

JohnKSa, at this point it does seem this is an issue with using older long magazines in newer guns of smaller capacity. Like btmj said, it is established that magazines are suppose to be compatible with different model guns within the same caliber (see my glock link above).

Quote:

Old mag in new gun of the same capacity=OK.
New mag in new gun of smaller capacity=OK.
Old mag in old gun of smaller capacity=OK.
Old mag in new gun of smaller capacity=Problematic.

I agree with you except for the first line. I haven't tried or confirmed that older mags in newer guns (gen3 or gen4) work in guns of the same capacity...

Also, I believe new mags in older guns should work...

NY321 · February 6, 2012, 05:35 PM

FYI, i can only see 2 differences between older and newer mags:

1) The sides of the older mags (mag #3 and #4 pic below) have sides that have more of a horizontal lip compared the newer mags (latter pics) which are more flat.

2) New mags have notches on both sides (for ambi magazine release models) where the older mags only have one notch.

I wonder if these differences causes the mags not to seat properly when using older longer mags in newer smaller guns...

**JohnKSa** · February 6, 2012, 11:46 PM

I've used all generations of Glock mags including both the newest mags with the ambi-release cuts and the old original style non-dropfree G17mags in Glock 17s up to Gen 3.

That's not conclusive and doesn't include any testing with the Gen 4 guns, but it does suggest that it's less of an issue with older mags and new guns and more of a problem with older long mags in smaller capacity new guns.

NY321 · February 15, 2012, 05:29 PM

So I went shooting this past Monday and I shot a Glock 22 gen3 using the pre-ban G22 magazines and…. Still having issues! The gun shot flawlessly using newer magazines.

I was only able to get these mags to work in a gen2 glock (G23 gen2).

I would assume these mags would work in a Glock 22 gen2….

For those who own newer Glocks (gen3 and gen4) and live in States with magazine capacity limits, be careful buying pre-ban magazines….

seed · February 15, 2012, 09:57 PM

For what it's worth, I used my six pre-ban mags I acquired legally in 2000 in my Gen 4 G23 with zero issues (230 rounds). I'm not sure what followers they have...I'll have to look when I find the time.

chevy2man · February 5, 2013, 10:50 AM

GLOCKS NEWER MAGS SUCK ! i see that ny321 had something to say about this , i found his article when i googled "old style glock m27 magazine " everything he said is true the newer mags with a metal insert up front are sloppy and have a rather sizable gap between the top of mag floor plate and bottom of the gun grip . i use a scherer pinkie ext and it just magnify's the issue ! GLOCK MUST HAVE NEVER HEARD THE SAYING " IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT " they claim the change was made for feed reliability problems , i never had one issue with feeding with the old mags , one of my 2 mags was stolen , but the one i still have fits as tight as a bug in a rug ! no gap ,. no side to side play like the new ones , calling glock and telling them all this hasn't changed anything yet , i may go back to carrying my kimber 3 in ultra carry . i can understand glock only being concerned about feed reliability issues from a liability point of view , but cheeses they could fix this issue , maybe when their sales drop off , then they'll sit up and take notice ! don't get me wrong i am pro glock , but this in my opinion is unacceptable ! i hope glock gets to read this for what its worth , im in pa , and have looked everywhere for an old style glock mag , if any one can help , that would be GOD send . glock won't sell me one, unbelievable !!!! thanks i needed to get that off my chest .

greyeyezz · February 5, 2013, 11:38 AM

Quote:

1) My brother (police officer) tried a Glock 22 post ban (newer) 15 round mag (his friend is a police officer also, he let us try his) in the glock 27 with great results (maybe just 2 failures to feed)

That's not great results. You might have an issue with the G27 itself.

February 2, 2012, 11:47 PM	#2
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,972	If the mags are .40S&W factory Glock mags and lock in place properly they should also work properly. I have Glock mags & Glock pistols that span a roughly 20 year period of manufacture and have had no issues with old mags not working in new guns or new mags not working in old guns. The only intra-caliber incompatibility issue I'm aware of would actually preclude the magazines from locking in place. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

February 3, 2012, 03:35 PM	#7
Mrgunsngear Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2011 Location: Carolina Posts: 3,415	Voyager---thanks for expounding. You hit it on the head. __________________ Mrgunsngear Youtube Channel

February 4, 2012, 12:46 PM	#12
Nanuk Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2005 Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam. Posts: 3,082	I had a similar problem with my Glock 23 and a 9mm conversion. I had mistakenly bought 10 round mags, my gun does not like those 10 round mags, the follower is enough different. __________________ Retired Law Enforcement U. S. Army Veteran Armorer My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.

February 5, 2012, 01:22 PM	#16
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,972	It still seems that one of the primary factors is using a long magazine in a smaller gun. So a combination of the two factors, apparently. Does the following summary seem to be accurate? Old mag in new gun of the same capacity=OK. New mag in new gun of smaller capacity=OK. Old mag in old gun of smaller capacity=OK. Old mag in new gun of smaller capacity=Problematic. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

February 6, 2012, 11:46 PM	#19
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,972	I've used all generations of Glock mags including both the newest mags with the ambi-release cuts and the old original style non-dropfree G17mags in Glock 17s up to Gen 3. That's not conclusive and doesn't include any testing with the Gen 4 guns, but it does suggest that it's less of an issue with older mags and new guns and more of a problem with older long mags in smaller capacity new guns. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

February 2, 2012, 10:38 PM	#1
NY321 Junior Member Join Date: February 2, 2012 Posts: 9	Old Glock Mag issues in Newer Glock I recently bought 3 pre-ban Glock 22 magazines (15 round) at a gun show in NYS. Glock 22 magazines are suppose to work in a Glock 23 and Glock 27. I tried them in a Glock 27 gen3 and all 3 magazines had failures to feed. I installed new followers and wolff springs in each mag, still had same issue. They work better in my Glock 23 gen2 with an occasional failure to feed. The only thing i can see is that the Glock 27 gen3 came with magazines with a newer design, and that maybe the older magazines don't seat well. Does that make sense? My true question is that ultimately i would like to get a new Glock 22 gen3; however, will my 3 pre-ban magazines work? Should i try to get a used Glock 22 gen2 instead? Thanks... Note: I live in NYS so i am not allowed to buy hi-capacity (over 10 rounds) magazines. I can only get pre-ban magazines made prior to 1994 if i want magazines over 10 rounds...

February 3, 2012, 09:49 AM	#3
btmj Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 2011 Location: Near St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 864	I have a 1991 G17 (early gen 2) which I bought new in July 1991, along with 3 G17 mags. I also have a G19 (late production gen 3) which I bought new in 2009. I have found that those old G17 mags are not reliable in the much newer G19. They work well most of the time, but occasionally the slide locks back when there are still rounds in the mag. I also had a couple of FTFs. In the 20 years I have been shooting that old G17 it has never had a single malfunction. I have never had a single malfunction with the G19, except for the few times I used those old G17 mags.

February 3, 2012, 01:27 PM	#4
Crow Hunter Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2012 Posts: 1,078	I assume that your failure to feed is the round nosediving and getting caught on the feed ramp. Not closing on an empty chamber or something else. Test to try. Load the G27 with the longer mags. Slip a small shim between the back of the magazine and the back of the magazine well such that the bottom of the magazine can't rock towards you when you grip it. Then try it. You could also try it with dummy cartridges and easing it closed to see if there is a difference between new and old mags. If this fixes it. you may be be pulling the magazine back slightly when you grip it changing the feed geometry slightly. Older Pre-ban mags were designed for a slightly more generous feed ramp than is present on the newer Glock .40s. (The infamous "unsupported chamber".) You can measure the top edge of the follower to the top edge of the mag release cut out to see if there is a difference between your new and old mags and see too.

February 3, 2012, 01:48 PM	#5
Mrgunsngear Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2011 Location: Carolina Posts: 3,415	All generations should work in a Gen3 22. That said, the Gen3 22s went through some growing pains in terms of mag follower/spring combinations and Glock will replace them if you're having issues. FWIW, the latest follower for the G22s is the #9 I believe. __________________ Mrgunsngear Youtube Channel

February 3, 2012, 03:10 PM	#6
voyager4520 Senior Member Join Date: April 1, 2009 Location: SE Colorado Posts: 840	Which followers did you put into the pre-ban magazines? Which followers did those pre-ban magazines originally have? .40 standard capacity magazines which originally came with followers 1028(#1) through #5 should only use one of those followers. Magazines that originally came with followers #6 through #8 should use one of those followers. Seeing as they're pre-ban magazines, I'm pretty sure the latest follower they can use is the #5 follower. Keep the Wolff springs, and either put the original followers back in or buy some #5 followers for them. #5 followers: http://glockparts.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=7204&CAT=711 Another source for #5 followers: http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.a...OD=376&CAT=192 #9 followers are supposed to work in magazines that originally came with followers #6 through #8, but the part of the #9 follower which engages the slide stop is slightly wider and may not rise fully in the magazine, usually causing failure of the slide to lock back. If this is the case, you can look at that part of the #9 follower and see a rub mark developing, you can shave that rub mark down until the follower rises fully in the magazine. __________________ Glock 23,27

February 3, 2012, 10:44 PM	#8
NY321 Junior Member Join Date: February 2, 2012 Posts: 9	First of all, thanks to all you guys for your input and help…. JohnKSa – These are factory Glock mags and they seem to lock into place pretty good. However, I do notice that the newer mags seem to engage the follower higher than the older mags… Btmj – Same experience I had with my Glock 23 gen2, I never had any issues with any mags / ammo until I tried using the Glock 22 pre-ban magazines. Crow hunter – yes, the rounds are nose diving and getting caught on the feed ramp. I’ll try your test when I get a chance. We did try to be careful with our grips when shooting the Glock 27, but the feeding issues happen to almost every round, with all 3 mags. Voyager4520 – The pre-ban mags had followers with numbers below #5 (I believe it was #3 and #4). I replaced the followers with the #5 followers (old style). The old followers and the #5 followers both did not work. We even tried using the follower from the newer mag, but still had the same negative results. 2 additional comments: 1) My brother (police officer) tried a Glock 22 post ban (newer) 15 round mag (his friend is a police officer also, he let us try his) in the glock 27 with great results (maybe just 2 failures to feed) So the issue is definitely with the older pre-ban mags… 2) I did call Glock ( I felt the tech was short and rude). After I explained to him that my older Glock 22 pre-ban mags causes failure to feed issues in my Glock 27 gen3, he replied “yeah, that can happen”….

February 3, 2012, 10:54 PM	#9
NY321 Junior Member Join Date: February 2, 2012 Posts: 9	At this point, I plan to give up on using the Glock 22 pre-ban mags in the Glock 23 gen2 and Glock 27 gen3. However, I would like to buy a new Glock 22 gen3. Will my Glock 22 pre-ban mags work then?? Or would they work better in a used Glock 22 gen2?? Or should I just totally give up and move to a State away from NY! Lol…

February 4, 2012, 10:54 AM	#11
NY321 Junior Member Join Date: February 2, 2012 Posts: 9	Yes JohnKSa, I was very surprised when he admitted the issue. I was expecting a lecture on me doing something wrong. As you can see with btmj response, some others are having the same issues. Many people don't know about it. I've spoken to a few gun dealers and they all assume the same "it should work". Even though Glock claims that magazines are interchangeable with different model guns, within the same caliber (http://www.glock.com/english/index_magazines.htm), It seems that older glock pre-ban magazines do not work in newer guns of different models... I do plan to shoot a Glock 22 gen3 and use the 3 pre-ban Glock 22 magazines in about 2 weeks, I'll let you guys know what happens....

February 5, 2012, 03:55 AM	#15
btmj Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 2011 Location: Near St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 864	I think it is well established that a modern G17 mag will work just fine in a modern G19 or G26. In my case it is the old pre-ban magazines in a new gun that cause the issue.

February 15, 2012, 05:29 PM	#20
NY321 Junior Member Join Date: February 2, 2012 Posts: 9	So I went shooting this past Monday and I shot a Glock 22 gen3 using the pre-ban G22 magazines and…. Still having issues! The gun shot flawlessly using newer magazines. I was only able to get these mags to work in a gen2 glock (G23 gen2). I would assume these mags would work in a Glock 22 gen2…. For those who own newer Glocks (gen3 and gen4) and live in States with magazine capacity limits, be careful buying pre-ban magazines….

February 15, 2012, 09:57 PM	#21
seed Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2004 Posts: 411	For what it's worth, I used my six pre-ban mags I acquired legally in 2000 in my Gen 4 G23 with zero issues (230 rounds). I'm not sure what followers they have...I'll have to look when I find the time.

February 5, 2013, 10:50 AM	#22
chevy2man Junior Member Join Date: February 5, 2013 Posts: 1	i need an old style glock m27 mag GLOCKS NEWER MAGS SUCK ! i see that ny321 had something to say about this , i found his article when i googled "old style glock m27 magazine " everything he said is true the newer mags with a metal insert up front are sloppy and have a rather sizable gap between the top of mag floor plate and bottom of the gun grip . i use a scherer pinkie ext and it just magnify's the issue ! GLOCK MUST HAVE NEVER HEARD THE SAYING " IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT " they claim the change was made for feed reliability problems , i never had one issue with feeding with the old mags , one of my 2 mags was stolen , but the one i still have fits as tight as a bug in a rug ! no gap ,. no side to side play like the new ones , calling glock and telling them all this hasn't changed anything yet , i may go back to carrying my kimber 3 in ultra carry . i can understand glock only being concerned about feed reliability issues from a liability point of view , but cheeses they could fix this issue , maybe when their sales drop off , then they'll sit up and take notice ! don't get me wrong i am pro glock , but this in my opinion is unacceptable ! i hope glock gets to read this for what its worth , im in pa , and have looked everywhere for an old style glock mag , if any one can help , that would be GOD send . glock won't sell me one, unbelievable !!!! thanks i needed to get that off my chest .