Ball vs. Extruded powder

castnblast · December 17, 2010, 10:33 PM

I have never loaded "ball" type powders because I have always heard they are heat sensitive. I live in South Texas where we have 2 seasons - Hot, and Not as Hot...

I was really leaning toward using H414 in a new 243 until I found out it was ball. Have any of you experienced accuracy issues with ball powders due to heat?

Tuzo · December 17, 2010, 10:53 PM

Varget works very well in my .243. It is an extruded powder but in very small grains with an easy metering compared to longer extruded powders. Hodgden claims insensitivity to temperature extremes.

I live near New Orleans and experience the same weather as Houston.

RKG · December 17, 2010, 11:16 PM

Heat sensitivity is an issue (if at all) where you go from summer to winter. If it is always hot where you are, shouldn't be an issue.

One of my favorite powders is Win 748. I shoot it in 30F winters and 90F summers and have not noticed much (if any) velocity difference. I have observed repeatable (albeit small; about 100 fps or so instrument) summer/winter velocity differences with other powders, including 3031 and RL-15, both of which are extruded.

steve4102 · December 18, 2010, 10:03 AM

Ramshot Hunter.

Ifishsum · December 18, 2010, 02:00 PM

No accuracy issues that I've noticed, but I have seen a few cratered primers with my .204 on hot days with some loads that I developed in winter. It takes a fairly wide temperature swing though, and it's just something to be aware of - I certainly don't avoid ball powders because of it.

If you develop and test the loads in the same general climate that you plan to shoot them in, you won't have any problems (unless you leave your ammo sitting in the hot sun or something like that).

I like H414 in the .243

dlb435 · December 18, 2010, 02:20 PM

I'm using ball powders (meters very well in my powder drop) I've had no issues even with ammo that I loaded 7 years ago.

crowbeaner · December 18, 2010, 02:21 PM

I use a LOT of H414/WW760 in the 243 and have no problems here in SC where it touches 100 in the summer. Just start about 2 grains low and work up 1/2 a grain until you find the "sweet spot". Use standard primers as both don't really need magnums for good ignition. It really shines with 80 to 100 grain bullets.

Win_94 · December 19, 2010, 06:08 AM

I use H 414 in my 30-06 using 190gr SPBTs for winter. If it is below 32 degrees F then it shoots wonderful, once it gets above 32 the groups open up drastically.

When I realized that I developed a load for spring but that load wasn't viable for summer. So I went with IMR 4831 instead. The hotter it got the more I needed to change charge weight to remain accurate.

[edit]Also, I would also have an issue with the primer not igniting the powder charge immediately. I could get it to ignite a bit sooner with heavier loads but every 10 or so shots there would be a hesitation.[/edit]

billnourse · December 19, 2010, 09:58 AM

Living in NM I have temperatures from below zero to 100 degrees. I am now working on loads for all my rifles that will use the Hodgdon Extreme powders.

I have used 414(ball) with great suscess in the 30/06, but it is pretty radical depending on temperature, especially if you are loading to near max.

I use a lot of H380 (ball) in my 22/250, but I am no where near max with it, so not too much of an issue except for differences in bullet impact depending on the temp. It is a paririe dog gun, so it is mostly shot in warmer to hot temps.

Bill

castnblast · December 21, 2010, 10:36 PM

Thanks for the replies. I'm trying some of the hybrid hodgdon V100 for the 100 gr Speer BTSP's. I may give H4831 and H4350 a whirl too. I think the hybrid is actually a ball powder, and not a true extruded powder. Never used it before. First time for everything. yes - working up the loads. Should have some info soon on results!

Slamfire · December 22, 2010, 11:45 AM

It is absolutely true that ball powders are more difficult to ignite. I found that out with misfires/hangfires in cold weather with AA2520 in the 35 Whelen. Also with AA#9 in a 357. Flake and stick powders did not have the same issues in the same firearms fired on the same day.

It is my considered opinion, having shot tens of thousands of round in Service rifle competition, in snow to swampy heat, that stick powders have a wider "sweet" spot and give more warning signs before blowing primers.

I have carefully developed loads with ball powders in 80 F weather, shot the stuff in 100F weather and I suddenly had blown primers. Went from zero to Bitch in .1 seconds.

Of course I had to cut the loads.

In the cartridges I shoot, I cannot tell any difference in on target accuracy between dumped charges of ball or stick in .223, 308 and 30-06.

I only weigh maximum charges.

People who shoot from benches or bipods might see stuff that is lost when you are prone with a sling. But that is in the noise level as far as I am concerned.

castnblast · December 22, 2010, 10:20 PM

great info - Thanks!

December 17, 2010, 10:33 PM	#1
castnblast Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2006 Location: Corpus Christi TX Posts: 1,148	Ball vs. Extruded powder I have never loaded "ball" type powders because I have always heard they are heat sensitive. I live in South Texas where we have 2 seasons - Hot, and Not as Hot... I was really leaning toward using H414 in a new 243 until I found out it was ball. Have any of you experienced accuracy issues with ball powders due to heat? __________________ VEGETARIAN...old indian word for bad hunter

December 17, 2010, 10:53 PM	#2
Tuzo Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 797	Try Varget Varget works very well in my .243. It is an extruded powder but in very small grains with an easy metering compared to longer extruded powders. Hodgden claims insensitivity to temperature extremes. I live near New Orleans and experience the same weather as Houston.

December 18, 2010, 02:21 PM	#7
crowbeaner Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Upstate SC Posts: 1,943	I use a LOT of H414/WW760 in the 243 and have no problems here in SC where it touches 100 in the summer. Just start about 2 grains low and work up 1/2 a grain until you find the "sweet spot". Use standard primers as both don't really need magnums for good ignition. It really shines with 80 to 100 grain bullets. __________________ If you want your children to follow in your footsteps, be careful where you walk. Beware the man that only owns one gun; he probably knows how to use it. I just hope my ship comes in before my dock rots.

December 19, 2010, 06:08 AM	#8
Win_94 Junior member Join Date: August 21, 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 214	I use H 414 in my 30-06 using 190gr SPBTs for winter. If it is below 32 degrees F then it shoots wonderful, once it gets above 32 the groups open up drastically. When I realized that I developed a load for spring but that load wasn't viable for summer. So I went with IMR 4831 instead. The hotter it got the more I needed to change charge weight to remain accurate. [edit]Also, I would also have an issue with the primer not igniting the powder charge immediately. I could get it to ignite a bit sooner with heavier loads but every 10 or so shots there would be a hesitation.[/edit] Last edited by Win_94; December 20, 2010 at 05:29 AM. Reason: added info

December 21, 2010, 10:36 PM	#10
castnblast Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2006 Location: Corpus Christi TX Posts: 1,148	Thanks for the replies. I'm trying some of the hybrid hodgdon V100 for the 100 gr Speer BTSP's. I may give H4831 and H4350 a whirl too. I think the hybrid is actually a ball powder, and not a true extruded powder. Never used it before. First time for everything. yes - working up the loads. Should have some info soon on results! __________________ VEGETARIAN...old indian word for bad hunter

December 17, 2010, 11:16 PM	#3
RKG Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2009 Location: Boston Posts: 562	Heat sensitivity is an issue (if at all) where you go from summer to winter. If it is always hot where you are, shouldn't be an issue. One of my favorite powders is Win 748. I shoot it in 30F winters and 90F summers and have not noticed much (if any) velocity difference. I have observed repeatable (albeit small; about 100 fps or so instrument) summer/winter velocity differences with other powders, including 3031 and RL-15, both of which are extruded.

December 18, 2010, 10:03 AM	#4
steve4102 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,955	Ramshot Hunter.

December 18, 2010, 02:00 PM	#5
Ifishsum Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,033	No accuracy issues that I've noticed, but I have seen a few cratered primers with my .204 on hot days with some loads that I developed in winter. It takes a fairly wide temperature swing though, and it's just something to be aware of - I certainly don't avoid ball powders because of it. If you develop and test the loads in the same general climate that you plan to shoot them in, you won't have any problems (unless you leave your ammo sitting in the hot sun or something like that). I like H414 in the .243

December 18, 2010, 02:20 PM	#6
dlb435 Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2009 Posts: 654	I'm using ball powders (meters very well in my powder drop) I've had no issues even with ammo that I loaded 7 years ago.

December 19, 2010, 09:58 AM	#9
billnourse Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2010 Location: Bloomfield, NM Posts: 366	Living in NM I have temperatures from below zero to 100 degrees. I am now working on loads for all my rifles that will use the Hodgdon Extreme powders. I have used 414(ball) with great suscess in the 30/06, but it is pretty radical depending on temperature, especially if you are loading to near max. I use a lot of H380 (ball) in my 22/250, but I am no where near max with it, so not too much of an issue except for differences in bullet impact depending on the temp. It is a paririe dog gun, so it is mostly shot in warmer to hot temps. Bill __________________ Cooper 52 25/06, Cooper 52 30/06, Cooper 52 338/06Cooper 57 .17HMR, Remington VS .22/250 all left handed. Rock River Predator Persuit AR-15, 1952 Marlin 336 in 30/30. 2 Kimber 1911, Colt 1911, S&W .357 Mag, Kahr .40 and .380

December 22, 2010, 11:45 AM	#11
Slamfire Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 5,261	It is absolutely true that ball powders are more difficult to ignite. I found that out with misfires/hangfires in cold weather with AA2520 in the 35 Whelen. Also with AA#9 in a 357. Flake and stick powders did not have the same issues in the same firearms fired on the same day. It is my considered opinion, having shot tens of thousands of round in Service rifle competition, in snow to swampy heat, that stick powders have a wider "sweet" spot and give more warning signs before blowing primers. I have carefully developed loads with ball powders in 80 F weather, shot the stuff in 100F weather and I suddenly had blown primers. Went from zero to Bitch in .1 seconds. Of course I had to cut the loads. In the cartridges I shoot, I cannot tell any difference in on target accuracy between dumped charges of ball or stick in .223, 308 and 30-06. I only weigh maximum charges. People who shoot from benches or bipods might see stuff that is lost when you are prone with a sling. But that is in the noise level as far as I am concerned. __________________ If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.

December 22, 2010, 10:20 PM	#12
castnblast Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2006 Location: Corpus Christi TX Posts: 1,148	great info - Thanks! __________________ VEGETARIAN...old indian word for bad hunter